BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Berethos

There's another job that can inflict, Poison, 10% Damage Down, 40% Heavy, Slow, Blind, and Paralysis that lasts 15 seconds, with a 1 second silence, using one GCD (and it's ON the GCD as well, its recast time is 2.5 seconds)?

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Don't forget...that's not on one target either. They can AOE inflict poison, 10% DD, 40% heavy, slow, blind, 15s Paralysis, and silence using one GCD and do it each and every GCD, meaning outside of bosses they can pretty much stunlock all the trash in any dungeon permanently. Think like WHM Holy on steroids.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Don't forget...that's not on one target either. They can AOE inflict poison, 10% DD, 40% heavy, slow, blind, 15s Paralysis, and silence using one GCD and do it each and every GCD, meaning outside of bosses they can pretty much stunlock all the trash in any dungeon permanently. Think like WHM Holy on steroids.

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The silence lasts 1 second, so it's an interrupt more than anything. I wouldn't stay on steroids, I'd say...less than Holy, but within the same realm of use.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So SE why exactly arent they then able to go into recent content? Was it really so bad to just give them certain skills as a simple rotation for recent content and the rest for solo play? What fun will it be to slowly kill the same trash monsters again and again, since even Fates wont give the best exp? If the death skill even just comes later (or maybe not if they decide to take it out before they raise the cap) why not make it so that certain spells are simply not allowed in certain content?

About adding more mounts and stuff later: This can just be a useless promise too. Remember how they said that we would get more egi glamours in later patches? Its not 100% sure that it will happen and who knows, maybe people wont play it long enough and they drop it anyway..we should not have these: "but it might get better later" things, we should have great things now.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Don't forget...that's not on one target either. They can AOE inflict poison, 10% DD, 40% heavy, slow, blind, 15s Paralysis, and silence using one GCD and do it each and every GCD, meaning outside of bosses they can pretty much stunlock all the trash in any dungeon permanently. Think like WHM Holy on steroids.

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Talking about WHM on Steroids, there is this weird character now that I'm exploring WHM. He totally doesn't fit in the game, it's a little kid wearing all black with black horns....and he is supposed to be leading the WHM? I incorporate it into the Lore though, I learn enough from the "Conjurer" to go to a real WHM. That little kid is straight out of Hilton next to a Chuck E. Cheese for me.

Yah, all cool in the Hood. All I know is got work to do right now. But all in all I'm really "excited," about that Blue Mage...but not in that way.

Wow, what a shock, Blue Mage's Bad Breath (and presumably other skills) works virtually nothing like the enemy ability! It's almost like they could have balanced it however they wanted, and were never tied to making blue magic be a 1-to-1 match to enemy skills!

I wonder how many people who swore blue magic had to work exactly like enemy skills (or it wouldn't feel like BLU) will be preemptively dropping the job.

From the bad breath info I have more hope for Blue Mage being in duty finder at some point because let's face it the bad breath Blue Mage has is not exactly the same as the Morbol bad breath. Bad Breath for Blue Mage is like a slightly different and similarly powerful Holy or very similar but not as OP Morbol Bad breath :), not mind bendingly OP (nor weak).

I kind of hope there is a Blue Mage spell though, say at level 50, that empowers certain blue mage spells like Dark Arts on Dark Knight. Such that we might see a near 1:1, just cause it'd be funny (of course something that shouldn't work in duty finder then, like the Shiva bow attack being as strong as the party remembers it when the tank messes up lol).

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Wow, what a shock, Blue Mage's Bad Breath (and presumably other skills) works virtually nothing like the enemy ability! It's almost like they could have balanced it however they wanted, and were never tied to making blue magic be a 1-to-1 match to enemy skills!

I wonder how many people who swore blue magic had to work exactly like enemy skills (or it wouldn't feel like BLU) will be preemptively dropping the job.

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Maybe the "identity" talk really is more about being able to collect spells than it is about those spells being faithful to their monster and previous FFs counterparts.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Wow, what a shock, Blue Mage's Bad Breath (and presumably other skills) works virtually nothing like the enemy ability! It's almost like they could have balanced it however they wanted, and were never tied to making blue magic be a 1-to-1 match to enemy skills!

I wonder how many people who swore blue magic had to work exactly like enemy skills (or it wouldn't feel like BLU) will be preemptively dropping the job.

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Bad Breath: FFXIV Morbol
- Inflicts Slow, Heavy, Silence, Paralysis, Poison, Blindness, HP Penalty, and Damage Down on target.

Bad Breath: Blue Mage
- Inflicts various status debuffs on enemies: Poison, 10% Damage Dealt Down, 40% Heavy, Slow, Darkness and Paralysis

Poison DoT Potency: 10
Effect time: 15 seconds.
Additional Effect: Silence. Silence effect: 1 second

Not seeing how they're "virtually nothing alike".

Ah, all talk.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Bad Breath: FFXIV Morbol
- Inflicts Slow, Heavy, Silence, Paralysis, Poison, Blindness, HP Penalty, and Damage Down on target.

Bad Breath: Blue Mage
- Inflicts various status debuffs on enemies: Poison, 10% Damage Dealt Down, 40% Heavy, Slow, Darkness and Paralysis

Poison DoT Potency: 10
Effect time: 15 seconds.
Additional Effect: Silence. Silence effect: 1 second

Not seeing how they're "virtually nothing alike".

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From a normal person's perspective, you're absolutely right. The devs have tweaked Bad Breath to fit the player. It's not exactly the same as the enemy skill, but it's unquestionably still Bad Breath.

From a BLU purist's perspective, the potencies are changed, the durations are changed, and the actual effects are changed. It might as well be a completely different spell!

People have been arguing since the moment BLU was announced that it had to be overpowered because the devs absolutely could not make any changes to the current enemy skills without completely ruining the "feel" of Blue Mage. Lo and behold, even for the Limited version of BLU, the devs have still made changes to the enemy skills because the idea of making them 1-to-1 copies was always silly.

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Originally Posted by Hercub

Talking about WHM on Steroids, there is this weird character now that I'm exploring WHM. He totally doesn't fit in the game, it's a little kid wearing all black with black horns....and he is supposed to be leading the WHM? I incorporate it into the Lore though, I learn enough from the "Conjurer" to go to a real WHM. That little kid is straight out of Hilton next to a Chuck E. Cheese for me.

Yah, all cool in the Hood. All I know is got work to do right now. But all in all I'm really "excited," about that Blue Mage...but not in that way.

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He would be one of the Padjal. They were covered more in 1.0 than in 2.0+ or so I believe as I have little interest in playing healers. = /

But if you're not finding much info on him and the Padjal: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Padjal

Go in on your own risk of spoiling any story related stuffs. ^^

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Bad Breath: FFXIV Morbol
- Inflicts Slow, Heavy, Silence, Paralysis, Poison, Blindness, HP Penalty, and Damage Down on target.

Bad Breath: Blue Mage
- Inflicts various status debuffs on enemies: Poison, 10% Damage Dealt Down, 40% Heavy, Slow, Darkness and Paralysis

Poison DoT Potency: 10
Effect time: 15 seconds.
Additional Effect: Silence. Silence effect: 1 second

Not seeing how they're "virtually nothing alike".

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You're right, but that's what people have been saying. The spells can be tweaked a bit for balance without losing the "feel" of Blue Mage.

Surely someone else has pointed it out already, but it sounds like SE just put the final nail in the "BLU for DF and Raids" coffin. If damage calculation isn't based on weapon damage like every other job, it'll never get to play with them.

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Originally Posted by TheHeavenAbyss

You're right, but that's what people have been saying. The spells can be tweaked a bit for balance without losing the "feel" of Blue Mage.

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Only so far you can tweak something till it isnt the same though.

I was continually bemused by the number of "It's not out yet you can't say anything!" grumbling. It was as if the ability to synthesize likely outcomes from available data points or draw inferences was some manner of mystical ability. I wonder if those same people are continually gobsmacked every time they see a weather forecast? I do have to hand it to Square that their odd choice of "limited" job now makes sense. From a marketing standpoint it was the proverbial square peg. Why would they choose a term with such negative connotations? Now it makes sense. Blue Mage was never intended to be anything more than a sideshow, a mini-game, limited in every sense of the word. So much for "parallel progression", "beta testing for a full job" or "a new end game dynamic"!

I'll continue to advocate for an improvement or even a revamp but the praxis by which Blue Mage was and is being designed is now blatantly obvious.

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Originally Posted by TheHeavenAbyss

You're right, but that's what people have been saying. The spells can be tweaked a bit for balance without losing the "feel" of Blue Mage.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Only so far you can tweak something till it isnt the same though.

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I mean if we imagine this on a boss it's going to be a Reprisal (damage down debuff) and slight damage lol. Definitely seems like it could fit into regular play right now, depending on duration(s) / cooldown.

I've mourned the Blue Mage already - it will be what it is going to be at this point. They have put too many hours into its development that even with a large outcry, it's still going to go forward like this. There were some straight up bad decisions made about it, and no amount of yes-men will change that. I genuinely and truly hope this Limited Job flops and is a miraculously negative mark on the choices of those that implemented it - because I wholeheartedly do not want to see other jobs show up as Limited.

Introduce job specific additional content? YES.

But you can't play that job in current content - whether it be dungeons, raids, etc - NO.

There is absolutely no reason why Blue Mage could not have been balanced with its numbers and abilities to work fine in current content and DF an ALSO add on the Masked Carnivale. None. They just CHOSE to not do that. They could add on specific bonus content like the MC to OTHER jobs as well - have a special tankish one, a healerish one, etc.

Warrior - Gladiator style combat with random npc matches, where victory streaks nets you rewards. Bigger the streak, better the rewards.
Monk - Boxing matches. Cup style bracket. Could even do Quick Time Events vs other players or npcs.
White Mage - Doctor Assistant in the Reach. Make theirs actually to do with healing. You assist the medical staff in Rhalgar's Reach to help cure and heal the patients to get them on their feet again after a rough battle with the empire. More and more are brought in and you have to heal/esuna/sleep/etc on the npcs. More and more come in until impossible to keep up - where you 'collapse with exhaustion' - and the number you helped is your score. Higher scores more rewards, leader board even.
Machinist - gun range / skeet shooting for high scores with varying difficulty in thrown objects.
Bard - Perform plays via QTE/Duty Actions.... Of 100 Nobles, 73 were impressed.....
Red Mage - Same as Bard - Perform swordplay via QTE/Duty Actions.... Of 100 Nobles, 73 were impressed.....

Those may not be the best ideas - but that's from one person off the top of their head while at work and not giving it full thought - let alone someone who does this as their full time job with a team of people.

And adding any of that in no way means they have to take away from what those jobs already are.

I am thoroughly disappointed in these people that they not only took this route but continue to spin it. Don't tell me to not like something before I try it.

This is 10 people at a table ordering cake - 9 were served with cake, and pie was served to the 10th. It may be good pie - it may even be great pie - but it is not and never will be cake.

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Originally Posted by JBee

I genuinely and truly hope this Limited Job flops and is a miraculously negative mark on the choices of those that implemented it

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Because that could never ever possibly ever lead to them never ever adding a job again, right?

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Because that could never ever possibly ever lead to them never ever adding a job again, right?

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I always thought it was about you don't earn actions as you level myself, especially based on their conversation about it in the Fan Fest Live letter. I already have seen archers in Stone Vigil this month that don't have their job crystal or any skills from class quests, think how worse it would be with a BLU with just its level 1 action and 10 role actions in 50/60 roulette. What are they going to do, spam drain and then mana shift to the healer? There are already too many players that ask "why don't I have this action?" that we have to tell "do your job quests" as it is.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

I always thought it was about you don't earn actions as you level myself, especially based on their conversation about it in the Fan Fest Live letter. I already have seen archers in Stone Vigil this month that don't have their job crystal or any skills from class quests, think how worse it would be with a BLU with just its level 1 action and 10 role actions in 50/60 roulette. What are they going to do, spam drain and then mana shift to the healer? There are already too many players that ask "why don't I have this action?" that we have to tell "do your job quests" as it is.

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It's certainly a concern but it isn't unsolvable, either of those issues to be honest.

A. You cannot join content as a sub class once the job is available unless either 1. you're in a party finder / solo or 2. it's within 5 levels of the job unlock (so you have some freedom).

B. You cannot join content when you're missing skills from your job class that can be used in said content, at least at level cap (where usually your capstone skill is the most important).

C. Blue Mage is designed, as suggested a few times myself at least, in a way that you don't need to worry about seeing a Blue Mage missing half their duty finder usable book.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

... I already have seen archers in Stone Vigil this month that don't have their job crystal or any skills from class quests, think how worse it would be with a BLU with just its level 1 action and 10 role actions in 50/60 roulette. What are they going to do, spam drain and then mana shift to the healer? There are already too many players that ask "why don't I have this action?" that we have to tell "do your job quests" as it is.

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I do agree with you on this - it's painful when someone is drastically unprepared for a zone. Unprepared is one thing - drastically so is another. Recent thread about Castrum Abania at i272 even echoes that sentiment - a lot of people feel the same way, to varying degrees.

Would make everyone's lives so much simpler to put some basic restrictions on zones and roulette - nothing too high where it would prevent new players from participating. But a level 41 dungeon with no job crystal is a little ridiculous.

- Require job crystals for dungeons over 30 (Brayflox and higher). If I were that new player, I wouldn't bat an eye at that - oh I need job crystal? Oh ok, I need to do that then. Done.
- Minimum ilvl for dungeons. Shouldn't need to be fully geared up to do everything all the way through the game, but having a dps come in with a dreadfully low ilvl where they are doing little to no damage is just a waste of a spot and makes the run harder for everyone else.
- Allow BLU into the DF - and require a certain number of actions, specific actions, or type of actions learned and slotted in (if you cannot change them in a dungeon); Disallow certain abilities that would break specific encounters; Disable effects on abilities on bosses as needed (such as silence, bind, etc)

I'm excited for blue mage, especially how you could be in tank stance or healing stance as well.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

It might as well be a completely different spell!

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That is ridiculous, and I think you know that.

Furthermore, when arguing that BLU had to be overpowered, I don't think anyone actually believed it fully depended on having the exact same skills as the monsters, but rather an understanding that the job and its mixing of abilities would allow for combinations and rotations that break the normal balance.

Lo and behold, we have one ability that already does more in one GCD in terms of status effects than any other player ability in the game, and it can work alongside 23 others with all sorts of effects and potential.

In short - you're being hyperbolic, and really should stop.

Looking through the details that have come out on BLU from the LL I'm just continually baffled on this. Their major 2 excuses for not letting BLU into relevant content was 1) monster abilities would be too powerful and 2) people wouldn't have the abilities they would need for content in the first place. Yet the info that has been surfacing shows that, at least some, abilities are not 1 to 1 what mobs do but modified versions. Raising the question further why they can't let BLU do content like everyone else if they are already changing these abilities? And from the LL they said BLU would get job quests every 5 levels that would require them to obtain a certain spell to advance. Which is exactly an idea many suggested as a means to establish a BLU spell list that would be what they use for balanced content, the rest is fluff you can do for the carnivale and open world stuff.

Sadly, the devs won't listen. BLU and this limited job experiment is an obvious train wreck in the works to add to an increasing list of blunders. Instead of being flexible and starting course correction now the devs will probably realize their mistake sometime late in the 5.X patch cycle after trying to make a bad concept "work".

I just don't know what I expect anymore. I mean, things like Diadem and FATEs have been complained about for years now, and the devs constantly try to make it stick and be a thing.

Hey, y'all hear that?

It's the sound of goalposts moving.

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Originally Posted by JBee

I do agree with you on this - it's painful when someone is drastically unprepared for a zone. Unprepared is one thing - drastically so is another. Recent thread about Castrum Abania at i272 even echoes that sentiment - a lot of people feel the same way, to varying degrees.

Would make everyone's lives so much simpler to put some basic restrictions on zones and roulette - nothing too high where it would prevent new players from participating. But a level 41 dungeon with no job crystal is a little ridiculous.

- Require job crystals for dungeons over 30 (Brayflox and higher). If I were that new player, I wouldn't bat an eye at that - oh I need job crystal? Oh ok, I need to do that then. Done.
- Minimum ilvl for dungeons. Shouldn't need to be fully geared up to do everything all the way through the game, but having a dps come in with a dreadfully low ilvl where they are doing little to no damage is just a waste of a spot and makes the run harder for everyone else.
- Allow BLU into the DF - and require a certain number of actions, specific actions, or type of actions learned and slotted in (if you cannot change them in a dungeon); Disallow certain abilities that would break specific encounters; Disable effects on abilities on bosses as needed (such as silence, bind, etc)

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Answering bolded part, rest I agree with. This is even more true now that you don't need to level a specific class to 15 to get the job like pre-SB. To get white mage, I had to level to 15 archanist before I could unlock it and this is no longer the case. I know people complained about removing that requirement, but it has stopped the excuse for not having a job crystal.

Maybe your idea for DF for BLU could be done, although I'm curious if we can swap skills in Dungeons now with BLU as despite popular belief it can go in dungeons and trials as some skills require it. Not having to worry about PUG's may be a good thing without re-writing the code to make sure certain skills are learned before going into a dungeon for roulettes. I know I'll at least try the class and bet PF will get lots of BLU's looking to run dungeons to learn skills like from Cutter's Cry, Ifrit, and Shiva.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

That is ridiculous, and I think you know that.

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I thought I was being very clear that I find line of thinking ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Furthermore, when arguing that BLU had to be overpowered, I don't think anyone actually believed it fully depended on having the exact same skills as the monsters, but rather an understanding that the job and its mixing of abilities would allow for combinations and rotations that break the normal balance.

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The number one argument for why BLU couldn't work in party play is that the abilities could not be changed. We've already seen that premise blown out.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Lo and behold, we have one ability that already does more in one GCD in terms of status effects than any other player ability in the game, and it can work alongside 23 others with all sorts of effects and potential.

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There's no reason why it has to be a GCD. Once you accept the fact that blue magic does not have to completely match enemy skills, you can tweak it as much as you want, as long as the end result still feels like blue magic. In this case, they balanced Bad Breath for the Limited solo-based BLU, but there's no reason to assume they couldn't have balanced it for group play while still keeping the feeling of Bad Breath.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

There's no reason why it has to be a GCD. Once you accept the fact that blue magic does not have to completely match enemy skills, you can tweak it as much as you want, as long as the end result still feels like blue magic. In this case, they balanced Bad Breath for the Limited solo-based BLU, but there's no reason to assume they couldn't have balanced it for group play while still keeping the feeling of Bad Breath.

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I imagine something fun might be 45 second-ish cooldown, plus 15 seconds for each mob hit. So you could actually add a x second paralyze, y second blind, etc, onto monsters, greatly reduce that huge trash pull damage, but also your bad breath is now like a 5 min cooldown lol.

Bosses for the most part are going to ignore 90% of bad breath, so for them it's just a reprisal on cooldown with some damage.

At least we know that the check to learn the actions is done for the entire group instead of being done only one per BLU in the group.
Which means that no matter how you look at it, it'll always be better to learn skills in group. And since some skills can only be learned in dungeons, people should expect to see a lot of PF and group play around Blue Mages parties.

While that's not DF, it's a really big incentive for group play, as going solo is objectively the less effective way (and won't let you learn skills from dungeons anyway).

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Which means that no matter how you look at it, it'll always be better to learn skills in group. And since some skills can only be learned in dungeons, people should expect to see a lot of PF and group play around Blue Mages parties.

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Can't wait for that solo experience they tooted BLU to be

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Can't wait for that solo experience they tooted BLU to be

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This is the one thing that has me completely confused. They explicitly stated that this job was intended for solo play and then... offer benefits for partying up with other players?
Are we supposed to be partying up to unlock primal abilities like Glacial Arrow as well then? If that's the case then how is this class designed for solo play?

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Originally Posted by Berethos

That is ridiculous, and I think you know that.

Furthermore, when arguing that BLU had to be overpowered, I don't think anyone actually believed it fully depended on having the exact same skills as the monsters, but rather an understanding that the job and its mixing of abilities would allow for combinations and rotations that break the normal balance.

Lo and behold, we have one ability that already does more in one GCD in terms of status effects than any other player ability in the game, and it can work alongside 23 others with all sorts of effects and potential.

In short - you're being hyperbolic, and really should stop.

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There were actually people saying that the spells had to be at 100% power of the monster version otherwise it wouldn't be right and therefore not blue mage. There are two that I'm thinking of that said these things and one of them asked and tried to understand why some of us wanted blu if it didn't having access to the full strength spells.

Also, wouldn't some of the status ailments of Bad Breath start to be hit with the half duration mechanic after each use? Or is that no longer in the game? Or the spell could have a longer cooldown and/or higher MP cost?

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

Answering bolded part, rest I agree with. This is even more true now that you don't need to level a specific class to 15 to get the job like pre-SB. To get white mage, I had to level to 15 archanist before I could unlock it and this is no longer the case. I know people complained about removing that requirement, but it has stopped the excuse for not having a job crystal.

Maybe your idea for DF for BLU could be done, although I'm curious if we can swap skills in Dungeons now with BLU as despite popular belief it can go in dungeons and trials as some skills require it. Not having to worry about PUG's may be a good thing without re-writing the code to make sure certain skills are learned before going into a dungeon for roulettes. I know I'll at least try the class and bet PF will get lots of BLU's looking to run dungeons to learn skills like from Cutter's Cry, Ifrit, and Shiva.

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Unless I misunderstood you, we are on the same page. I meant it was ridiculous to not have the job crystal by then. Should be built into the progression - I wouldn't even be mad if it were tied into the MSQ.

Tie the level 30 job quests to the prerequisites to "Trial By Turtle" - level 30 MSQ. If you have not completed your job quest, when Landenel is to tell you of the location of the egg, have him instead say something about not being strong enough yet and to come back once you have satisfied your trainer, or something.

As for the actions - I can't seeing it be too difficult to implement. I see it being more difficult implementing Blue Mage as it is being presented, with the weapon not changing, if i understood that right, and the stats and stuff. They were through so much extra work to make it special....

But in the end, even if it's great pie, it is still not cake.

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Originally Posted by Skos

This is the one thing that has me completely confused. They explicitly stated that this job was intended for solo play and then... offer benefits for partying up with other players?
Are we supposed to be partying up to unlock primal abilities like Glacial Arrow as well then? If that's the case then how is this class designed for solo play?

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I especially like that you have to fight Shiva in her extreme trial to have a chance to learn her ability....

... but you can't queue up yourself to her trial.

Hope it doesn't require the trial to be synced for you to have a chance to learn it. Spamming Shiva EX Sync PF is not something I will be looking forward to.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

At least we know that the check to learn the actions is done for the entire group instead of being done only one per BLU in the group.
Which means that no matter how you look at it, it'll always be better to learn skills in group. And since some skills can only be learned in dungeons, people should expect to see a lot of PF and group play around Blue Mages parties.

While that's not DF, it's a really big incentive for group play, as going solo is objectively the less effective way (and won't let you learn skills from dungeons anyway).

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They said it's the same single % chance to learn a given spell for all blu in the party so having more or less won't alter the learn rate. One "coin" is flipped and either the blu(s) learn the spell or not.

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Originally Posted by JBee

I especially like that you have to fight Shiva in her extreme trial to have a chance to learn her ability....

... but you can't queue up yourself to her trial.

Hope it doesn't require the trial to be synced for you to have a chance to learn it. Spamming Shiva EX Sync PF is not something I will be looking forward to.

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Oh could you imagine it, the wonder:

Extreme only, level sync (w/ ilevel).
30% chance to learn the Bow spell, 1/3 the party disbands each attempt because they learned it.

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Originally Posted by jon041065

They said that when a spell is learned, it's learned by all blu present in the party. It's a singular dice roll for the spell to be learned or not.

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All to get that sweet 200 potency attack, 15 second cooldown, 3 second cast time (made up numbers, not sure what the actual potency like calculation is).

Personally I'd be a bit annoyed with the concept that it's neither end game valuable nor complete solo available, if the job can quickly out rank old stuff with OP spells and go back by themselves unsynced it wont be so bad, but if all their skills are tweaked down for balance AND they have the level/content restrictions held onto them (such that you can't solo ex Shiva at level 50)...

I just can't even at that point lol. We obviously will have a few more weeks to wait and see but I really hope its not "not good enough to solo hard content, that you could solo with your level 80, also can't participate in current content.." or in other words "I do a lot poorly and a little bit sort of well". That'd be a bit sad :(

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Originally Posted by Skos

This is the one thing that has me completely confused. They explicitly stated that this job was intended for solo play and then... offer benefits for partying up with other players?
Are we supposed to be partying up to unlock primal abilities like Glacial Arrow as well then? If that's the case then how is this class designed for solo play?

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People complained about BLU being designed for solo in a MMORPG...
Now people complain about us having options not to stricly have to play solo?

Besides, Masked Carnivale is solo, and nothing prevents you from learning skills from field monsters alone.

Being "mostly designed for solo play" doesn't mean "strictly designed for solo play".

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Originally Posted by jon041065

They said it's the same single % chance to learn a given spell for all blu in the party so having more or less won't alter the learn rate. One "coin" is flipped and either the blu(s) learn the spell or not.

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I know that. But playing in party means killing stuff faster, which itself means more dice throw to try and learn the skill.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

I know that. But playing in party means killing stuff faster, which itself means more dice throw to try and learn the skill.

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True but could also have one of them kill the mob before it has used the ability. lol

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Originally Posted by Fyce

People complained about BLU being designed for solo in a MMORPG...
Now people complain about us having options not to stricly have to play solo?

Besides, Masked Carnivale is solo, and nothing prevents you from learning skills from field monsters alone.

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Except if content can't be completed by yourself of course (like having only a specific type of difficulty monster drop a spell). Also the complaint is if you're going to make a job unable to take part in current content cause they're so OP then the thought is they're going to be so great you can solo with them. If they can neither solo nor take part in end game content it begs a table flipping lol.

Being able to solo in the overworld is not an achievement so that certainly doesn't count, we can do that with any job - even our chocobo can do that alone XD.

At least that's my thought on it. Besides having to beg for a party finder to learn a skill from content that drops things that are no longer valuable to your main... Sounds like a great way to be shouting and begging for hours to receive help later down the line once the excitement train is out.

Of course Blue Mage could be capable of soloing everything, once certain spells are learned at least. Just a bit underwhelming to see the bow attack for example does not melt faces like it does normally (as that makes me think they're going "balance'd" and more likely needing a party route, in which case the above "can't solo, and can't current content party?" sentiment arises).

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Originally Posted by JBee

Unless I misunderstood you, we are on the same page. I meant it was ridiculous to not have the job crystal by then. Should be built into the progression - I wouldn't even be mad if it were tied into the MSQ.

Tie the level 30 job quests to the prerequisites to "Trial By Turtle" - level 30 MSQ. If you have not completed your job quest, when Landenel is to tell you of the location of the egg, have him instead say something about not being strong enough yet and to come back once you have satisfied your trainer, or something.

As for the actions - I can't seeing it be too difficult to implement. I see it being more difficult implementing Blue Mage as it is being presented, with the weapon not changing, if i understood that right, and the stats and stuff. They were through so much extra work to make it special....

But in the end, even if it's great pie, it is still not cake.

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We definitely agree and I love that idea! I don't see it too hard, even if it were to tie it to those learned in your job quests making people actually do their job quests as they level. Have the core ones you need there. What could be fun, try running coils of Bahamut as an all BLU party. I know it took forever for me to run it late by finding WT's parties to run the next coil for me.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Except if content can't be completed by yourself of course (like having only a specific type of difficulty monster drop a spell). Also the complaint is if you're going to make a job unable to take part in current content cause they're so OP then the thought is they're going to be so great you can solo with them. If they can neither solo nor take part in end game content it begs a table flipping lol.

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That's not the main reason why BLU cannot join the rest of the cast. It's because it is simply not designed like the rest of the cast. Being OP or not isn't really the point (it's just part of it, in the sense that BLU isn't balanced like regular job).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Being able to solo in the overworld is not an achievement so that certainly doesn't count, we can do that with any job - even our chocobo can do that alone XD.

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Never said it was an achievement. Just that overworld content can be done in solo, which goes in line with BLU design focus.
Since overworld content is solo friendly, and that BLU has a strong gameplay revolving around overworld content, it's fair to say that BLU was designed for solo play. But this doesn't mean that you can't party up, since that's also part of what's possible in overworld content.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

At least that's my thought on it. Besides having to beg for a party finder to learn a skill from content that drops things that are no longer valuable to your main... Sounds like a great wait to be shouting and begging for help later down the line once the excitement train is out.

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So? There's a bunch of content where new comers have to ask for help. Just make friends or join a FC that is willing to help you out. It isn't -that- hard. Especially since people have been talking about "but this is a MMORPG!" so much.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Of course Blue Mage could be capable of soloing everything, once certain spells are learned at least. Just a bit underwhelming to see the bow attack for example not melt faces like it does normally (as that makes me think they're going "balance'd" and more likely needing a party route, in which case the above "can't solo, can't current content party sentiment" arises).

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Keep in mind that they said the power of skills for BLU isn't calculated out of your weapon damage like other jobs. So, we actually have no idea how powerful these skill will actually be under real play. We didn't see Yoshida's gear. So far,we only know that Shiva's Ice Bow will be a 90s cooldown skill that has a high potency. Maybe it's just an oGCD like Fleche/Contre Sixte.