Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

Eletist in video game context simply means being a douchebag. Congrats for devolving. Want a cookie?

There are good and bad players. Good thing good players can play with good ones, and bad players with bad ones. Don't see why people feel the need to look down on others for no reason. Simply don't queue DF if you're too pro for it.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

A Melee with an i90 weapon will have a serious difficulty pulling more than 200 DPS on most WoD fights... But hey, it's his own fault for not farming a relic, right?

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I don't have a relic. In fact I just recently discarded all the Zeniths and the one Atma I had. I hated the relic quest and instead got into raiding when Atma/Animus were new. And I love it. I've had Primal weapons, tome weapons, and naturally Coil weapons. Whatever I could get.

Technically, I've been undergeared for everything I've done (or at least the lowest geared there). BUT! It IS safe to say gear doesn't equal skill, right? I said it before; I'm good because I MAKE myself become good. Through effort, hard work, whatever it takes. And I'm damn proud of that. That doesn't make me elitist, especially in that I'm ALWAYS willing to help someone, IF they're willing to make the effort like I did. THAT is one of the key things from the OP a few people seem to be missing here.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

You didn't get that far by yourself. You didn't become "elite" on your own.

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Nope. I never said I did. I'm not some superhuman. Nice try, but you still have to put in the legwork.

Network. I cultivated connections with people. I built my own network of like minded people OVER TIME. Now I can draw on that network to do content.

Git gud. I've cultivated my in game skills through research and practice to become a better player and now my friends and acquaintances seek me out when they want to complete content because they know i will he an asset instead of a burden.

Lead. Even if you dont like it (i dont). I've been a good soldier in groups. I've also created and led groups when I wasn't conveniently invited by one.

What I did NOT do was mope around wondering why no one will help me. If I want something, I will go get it. If someone wants to help me or team up, great! If not oh well, I'll move forward eother way. If I really want something, I will find a way to get it done, with or without assistance. It may be slower without help, but that never stopped me. If I really do give up, then I realize I just didn't want it bad enough to start with and move on.

If you REALLY want something, humans have a knack for finding a way to get it. If you make excuses all day, then you just don't want it bad enough.

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

I come from a heavy team sports background. My desire to improve and perform at the highest level I am capable of comes from a place of not wanting to let my teammates down. I really do not care for personal glory, I want us win sure, but the thing that's drives me, and always has, is not letting others down. I feel like that the people many of you insult calling them elite feel the same as I do. People like us have a VERY hard time understanding people who don't care about their own performance that sign up as part of a team to accomplish a common goal.

As a matter of fact, other not showing up, the worst thing you can do to your teammates is to show up unprepared. The best teams I have been a part of loved each other so much that the thought of letting them down was too much to bear it made you want to be the very best you could be. That's the crux of it for us, we study, research and try to do our very best BECAUSE WE DON"T WANT TO LET YOU DOWN. When you come off with an attitude of, I don't care, it's DF, deal with it, can you really be shocked that people that feel as we do get upset with you? Are you really that obtuse?

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In the most non-weird way possible: I love you.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

No one should be forced to stick around in a party they don't want to be in for whatever reason. Period. That doesn't make them a bad person or an elitist, because no one has an obligation to play teacher if they don't feel like it. I say this as someone who spends the majority of my play time helping other people out.

It's ridiculously entitled to think that experienced players are obliged to help new players with content all the time. Sometimes you just don't feel like it and that's fine. Forcing people into the teacher role is a surefire way to make them dislike and resent new players and be less inclined to be helpful.

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Don't join a DF party (or any party for that matter) if you aren't going to stick around for more than 10 minutes. Doing otherwise tells people that you only care about instant-gratification and you deserve the backlash you get for it.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Nope. I never said I did. I'm not some superhuman. Nice try, but you still have to put in the legwork.

Network. I cultivated connections with people. I built my own network of like minded people OVER TIME. Now I can draw on that network to do content.

Git gud. I've cultivated my in game skills through research and practice to become a better player and now my friends and acquaintances seek me out when they want to complete content because they know i will he an asset instead of a burden.

Lead. Even if you dont like it (i dont). I've been a good soldier in groups. I've also created and led groups when I wasn't conveniently invited by one.

What I did NOT do was mope around wondering why no one will help me. If I want something, I will go get it. If someone wants to help me or team up, great! If not oh well, I'll move forward eother way. If I really want something, I will find a way to get it done, with or without assistance. It may be slower without help, but that never stopped me. If I really do give up, then I realize I just didn't want it bad enough to start with and move on.

If you REALLY want something, humans have a knack for finding a way to get it. If you make excuses all day, then you just don't want it bad enough.

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Holy Ishgard, I love you too.

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

This is the good way to make a point the OP was claiming to make. No one should be hated because they are good at something. A person who is TRULY good at something doesn't need to come off as a condescending preach. Good players just play; that's why we don't see anyone from The Order of Blue Gartr coming on here and making "you noobs suck" threads like this.

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

It's the "quit after two wipes" attitude that makes it difficult for new players to get better at content. That's why we have so many people noobing it up in DF and PF in the first place.

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So good players should help the less successful players but must not preach if the others are doing wrong and also shouldn't quit after 2 attempts despite the ones killing the attempts are the less successful players? Why shouldn't I write you off as a bad player who just wants to get carried while playing any which way they want?

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

Don't join a DF party (or any party for that matter) if you aren't going to stick around for more than 10 minutes. Doing otherwise tells people that you only care about instant-gratification and you deserve the backlash you get for it.

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So if I join a farm party that does not welcome new players and I have a dozen kills on the intended content and I leave 10 mins after since I found out that not only someone as new, they have no idea what they're doing, I only care about the instant-gratification and I deserve the backlash I get for it? From who? You? lol, carried players says crazy things.

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

lol

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One person "screwed up" the economy? lol that's funny

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Originally Posted by Shadray

Wow your post has over 250 likes... Guess I'm gonna have to read it now.

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What does it even say?

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Originally Posted by Gardes

So good players should help the less successful players but must not preach if the others are doing wrong and also shouldn't quit after 2 attempts despite the ones killing the attempts are the less successful players? Why shouldn't I write you off as a bad player who just wants to get carried while playing any which way they want?

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Thank god your not on my server, this is the reason why new players have trouble getting better at X content, is because people don't wanna give the time of day to help. I understand make the most of your time, but new players won't get any better if people constantly leave due to wiping a few times.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Thank god your not on my server, this is the reason why new players have trouble getting better at X content, is because people don't wanna give the time of day to help. I understand make the most of your time, but new players won't get any better if people constantly leave due to wiping a few times.

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Thank god you're not on mine cause apparently you can't read.

It's pretty easy to lump people into one group or the other. When neither group really exists and it's more of a spectrum than anything else.

I believe I can totally understand the kind of feeling of the OP though. "If this world is evil, I'll become the devil" kind of feeling right? It's so easy for people to use words to try to make excuses for shortcoming in this game. It really doesn't matter if shortcomings are someone's fault or not, we respond to them all with the same excuses. "Omg, LAG" "Omg, this fight is unfair!" Only the people who like this game enough will stick around and try to like it. "Falling in love with something is just slowly forgetting what you dislike about it."

I see people attack each other much more than I see people attack the challenges in this game. And frankly, people are much easier targets and much more fun to attack I suppose? And then there is that whole internet anonymity breeding people to be total jerks, because, besides words, what can anyone really do?

It's pointless to fling words at each other. I'd rather people focus their efforts to actually playing the game, but people think they are the only special snowflake that can be a jerk and wanna try to impress everyone... It's like everyone is more interested in RPing some kind of "cooler" version of themselves than...just playing the game. If going bowling was like a MMO, I'd expect it to look like a crappy reconnaissance fair with everyone licking the bowling balls because they were pretending they were candy, and not one pin knocked over.

But yea, I think I'd rather be what is called an "elitist"... That name has a bad rap, but what is the alternative really? You can say "casual" player, but that seems to say an "elitist" plays more than the "casual" player. In most cases I see people that get called "elitist" play *less* often. You see all those people running around with the Zeta weapons? That was considered casual content for the masses by most, considering you just grinded the same content you likely already did (fates, dungeons, leves, but no raids required). Many more people have those than had bahamut weapons...but OMG the time sink for that weapon. It took me months to get one. I guess I'm not good enough to even be called a casual player.

Just my 2nd cents, I doubt anyone will even care... lol

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Thank god your not on my server, this is the reason why new players have trouble getting better at X content, is because people don't wanna give the time of day to help. I understand make the most of your time, but new players won't get any better if people constantly leave due to wiping a few times.

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Correction: people don't want to do the work you shirked in the first place. New content, I can understand people just getting frustrated and wanting to quit. Old content? Everyone - assuming they've been playing for the same amount of time (and this includes the "working class" and "mom's basement" extremes both) - has had equal amounts of time to learn things and practice, or even just familiarize themselves. If you haven't til now, why then would the burden fall to someone who DID learn and practice, and came ready to do their part? THIS is the core of the statement her, not the damn Elitist title being trumpeted around like it's the new "in" thing.

If you admit that you don't know something or can't remember it after a long time, I'm forgiving of that, maybe even willing to help. And let it be known: I am NOT obligated to do that one bit. But, if it's something you never made effort to learn or attempt and near-demand that I help you, I ask why? Where were you when I was working hard to learn it? As for people who leave after 2 wipes, they're either just impatient in general, and that's on them, OR, they are not patient enough to force themselves to try and push a group that shows clear signs of unreadiness, ill preparation, or simply a lack of desire or will to improve, whether instruction or advice is given or not. And that, if you fall in that category, is most certainly on you.

In the military, we called it "Personal Accountability".

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Thank god your not on my server, this is the reason why new players have trouble getting better at X content, is because people don't wanna give the time of day to help. I understand make the most of your time, but new players won't get any better if people constantly leave due to wiping a few times.

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How do you think players learn content when it is new and there ARE no experienced players to draw on for help? They form groups, they start from scratch, and they practice.

When my static started T9, we were the first players from my FC to set foot in it. We had no one experienced to teach us so we learned it ourselves from the very beginning. And we wiped and wiped and wiped for a month until we got it down.

You don't need experienced players to learn a fight. All you need is people who are willing to learn and put in the time and effort to do so.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

You don't need experienced players to learn a fight. All you need is people who are willing to learn and put in the time and effort to do so.

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You're right you don't need experience players to learn a fight. However, most people will use DF because lets face it, a lot of content post +50 is not all that hard to que into ( minus early stages of Coil and PvP, shakes fists). So there will be a mix of experienced players and non-experienced players. If a person is want to learn the fight, I would hope players there would help. Some players that are like this don't pick up on things as fast as others, so what do you do then? Leave the party for the person(s) that is trying their hardest to get this down after 10-20+ tries? I understand leaving after the people that don't wanna learn.


All I am saying is be nice to the people that are trying to learn and give it some time ( just advice, you don't have to take it mind you) before leaving. You were new once at some point and had to learn the fight and be there for hours on end trying to get it down. They are no different.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

If a person is want to learn the fight, I would hope players there would help.

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Some players will help. Some players won't, and they shouldn't be forced into it, nor should they be made to feel bad for not wanting to help right then. DF is not the only way to clear content-- there's always making a PF or asking friends for help. The only way you can guarantee that you'll get a group who will stick around while you learn it is to do one of those two things. Otherwise, with DF, people are free to leave as they choose for whatever reason.

You get what you get in DF. Sometimes you get a good group, sometimes you don't.

I tried to join-in-progress T9 for some of my FC members who were down a healer. I got a brand new group. I stuck around and helped them out. Why? Because they were honest and admitted they were new, but had attempted to learn what they could before coming in. We didn't win, and I'll be honest; it's been so long since I healed it, I was terrible. But I helped them understand the fight up to Golems at least.

#soelitist

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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Thing is, NOT everyone has been playing for the same amount of time. New players pour into the servers every day. Someone might not know the dungeon simply because they haven't ever done it. They don't even need to be that new; with the number of post-50 dungeons we have and the ease of gearing up to the expert ones, skipping a few in progression is something that can and does happen. Don't make assumptions about people just being lazy.

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Originally Posted by Jacost

Thing is, NOT everyone has been playing for the same amount of time. New players pour into the servers every day. Someone might not know the dungeon simply because they haven't ever done it. They don't even need to be that new; with the number of post-50 dungeons we have and the ease of gearing up to the expert ones, skipping a few in progression is something that can and does happen. Don't make assumptions about people just being lazy.

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Oh I wasn't making assumptions. And I did clarify I was talking about people who've played for the same amount of time, regardless of long hours or short. Fact is, people have ample time to try. Some do. Some don't. Yes, in between those are the ones who simply fall through the cracks. It happens. It sucks. I was one of them. BUT! With regards to those who can but don't do, for no valid reason, then no. My statement stands. Those who took the initiative, whether they had a lot or a little time to do so should not be obligated to pick up the slack.

Now, to clarify and debuff rebuttal: New is new. And fact is in less than 2 months we're all gonna be new again. That can't be helped. I'm not saying that those who push faster through content don't HAVE to help others who progress slower (well, they don't, but you know what I mean here), but I'm saying when October rolls around and someone just simply let Ravana Extreme sit in their duty list for months, never watched a vid, never tried it, never attempted to make a learning party or join one starts complaining about no one wanting to give them a chance. . . well. . . I feel bad for you son.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

I see people attack each other much more than I see people attack the challenges in this game.

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This game isn't suppose to be challenging, it's suppose to be a loot pinata. geez!!!

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Thank god your not on my server, this is the reason why new players have trouble getting better at X content, is because people don't wanna give the time of day to help. I understand make the most of your time, but new players won't get any better if people constantly leave due to wiping a few times.

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oh i assure you,if you think this is why people aren't getting better at X content then you have no clue what you are talking about,people aren't getting good at X content because they mostly either A:try leeching off those who are good enough at content X so they don't have to bother learning it(see the completely ignorant guy joining a farm party),B:doing generally whatever the hell they want disregarding rotations,mechanics,and strategies simply because "i paid for this don't tell me how to have fun"(see the BLM spamming blizzard),C:they believe they are the best in this game and can do no wrong and shrug off any of their mistakes towards other people(see the rager in pretty much every group),or D:believe they are entitled to help from more experienced players instead of finding similarly experienced players because "atleast i am trying"(see the guy on the pf with:help t5 clear,no 100 sol)

Oh and people,you are entirely missing the point here,the point is not if elitest is a good word or a bad word,point is,anybody who can clear anything in this game will get called an elitest for one reason or another,it can be for giving advice to someone who keeps wiping on the same mechanic(happened to me personally)it can be because you left a farm party that turned out to have 2-3 people who had no idea what they are doing even if you apologized for leaving(happened to me personally too) or it can be because you got to in a df and people turned out to be just plain toxic and incapable of said content(fortunately haven't had this one yet),if the behavior which i believe is right and by all means is right gets called elitesm and being a jerk then hell,i will eventually accept what i am doing as elitesm and believe it's right,or atleast act toxic enough to earn the treatment i am getting anyway

The last time i was called an elitist was....never actually. I've been called other things, but elitist wouldn't feel applicable as an insult.
if the whole point was to invalidate the abuse people give and receive towards each other on one end of the spectrum of "you people", then its not going to happen. I'm not about to approve of the "get gud" crowd's ways any more than a person bored of t13 clears can get forced into assisting ungrateful party members.

All we can do is try not to take it out on the next stranger. Our actions do affect people in ways we might not intend.

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Originally Posted by Davester

or atleast act toxic enough to earn the treatment i am getting anyway

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You dont need to improve in that area, I'd say.


As I mentioned before there would be a lot less issues about this if there werent a lot of jerks with a bad attitude going around calling themselves ''elitist''.


Personally I never understood why there's so many elitists that arent anywhere near elite themselves. Must be a ''fanboy'' thing.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

This game isn't suppose to be challenging, it's suppose to be a loot pinata. geez!!!

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lol...do I have to put quotations? "challenges" there :P

Either way, its the same meaning, everyone has something to say... I mean, I do too, I'm no different. People talk about this game more than play it... -_-

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Personally I never understood why there's so many elitists that arent anywhere near elite themselves. Must be a ''fanboy'' thing.

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Oh, you mean OP?

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

No offense, but if you are unable to comprehend due to game specific jargon, or understand mechanics via words, maybe your understanding of the game is just not where it needs to be in order to tackle the content

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No offense but if you don't write a GUIDE to actually help people than what the hell is the point? Define the terms in your guide properly for people that are newer to the game or don't bother writing a guide because you clearly don't know what the definition of a guide is.

I could understand these terms, but if I have to google search words from a guide, than it's a bad guide, plain and simple. "Put the buff on when the KSK gets to the PNP, but make sure the Factial MDT is up or you will wipe the party." <-Crap like that is what I'm talking about when I speak of unhelpful guides.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

You dont need to improve in that area, I'd say.


As I mentioned before there would be a lot less issues about this if there werent a lot of jerks with a bad attitude going around calling themselves ''elitist''.


Personally I never understood why there's so many elitists that arent anywhere near elite themselves. Must be a ''fanboy'' thing.

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and here is the problem,no matter how you cut you it that's just a plain jerk trying to pretend he's something he's not,people should stop taking it out on the elitist part of the sentence(that 50 pages in noone can agree what it entails) and,erhm...i don't know,take it out on the jerk(just a suggestion,we could totally go burn some elitists later too)

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

I don't care if it bugs you. I think you are lazy and selfish. You want someone to type out to you what everything means, instead of googling the abbreviation and reading what it means. Please link one video for any of the raids or dungeons FOR THIS GAME that include language or abbreviations you do not understand....You're correct, I think you are not being truthful. The videos usually tell you exactly what the name of thing the boss will cast, show you what it looks like and tells you where to move. How can that not possibly help some? even if you do not understand a word or two? Please ...it is you you who is the elitist, you expect to be carried and don't give a poop how you might be hurting the experience of others...selfish

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And I think you are a rude elitist (yup, since this is what this thread is about, it describes you to a tee!). I don't learn the same as you and that makes me lazy and selfish? You are a jerk, plain and simple. Also, I don't want someone to explain everything to me. I said I learn better when someone is there to explain things to me. It's pretty pathetic that you throw out insults at people because they don't learn the same as you do.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way you learn, and absolutely nothing wrong with the way I learn. Everyone learns differently, and if I have nice friends and an FC who are willing to help me learn in a way that is easiest for me, there's definitely nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with judging others for not being able to learn the same way as you though.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

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I absolutely 100% agree with you,but the problem isn't when a player learns differently and has a group of like-minded people that help them,the problem is with the player that pushes his way on other people.
If your friends understand that you learn better if they explain things after you see them,or tell you what to do before hand in a way that gives you better knowledge cause they know you,that is absolutely wonderful,but another player joining a pf/df and demanding that is just selfish

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Originally Posted by Davester

I absolutely 100% agree with you,but the problem isn't when a player learns differently and has a group of like-minded people that help them,the problem is with the player that pushes his way on other people.
If your friends understand that you learn better if they explain things after you see them,or tell you what to do before hand in a way that gives you better knowledge cause they know you,that is absolutely wonderful,but another player joining a pf/df and demanding that is just selfish

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Well, that's why I don't do new content in the duty finder, unless it's a dungeon (which I won't have to even worry about until 3.0).

I tried the whole online guide thing before in other MMORPGs. Would literally sit there for hours trying to decipher these "guides" like they were abstract puzzles that I needed to solve. Never again. I actually think though the only help players would really need in FFXIV would be for duties, it seems like to me that classes are pretty well described within the game's class quests. I've had no trouble with my SCH really because the class quests taught me how to play it properly. Wish more MMORPGs had this same system.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

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you'd think so,but the problem that this whole thread And others are about is that:some people push their methods on others and refuse to admit they can make mistake or improve because it allegedly ruins their fun.
People tend to harass others and then claim victim in one way or another,simplist example would be to join a pf for a training party(most of those say atleast watch a guide)go in,either demand someone explain everything because guides don't teach stuff properly,or have no clue about anything,show no signs of improving,and harass and refuse any advice because"it ruins the learning experience" and when told that they are being a liability and are wasting other people's times,proceed to call the. Elitists that want to one-shot everything,berate them then come and moan on forums about how unbearable elitism is.
And never mind content,classes are even a worst beast,telling someone that complains about how complicated and underpowered his class is(a Blm no less)that when he macros every skill he's gonna lose tons of dps as a small tip,immediately makes you a horrible elitist that expects unrealistic numbers and makes it sound like you go in sastasha normal and start parsing people and yelling at them

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Originally Posted by Davester

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That's not very simple at all, in fact it sounds like several cases mashed together.

Simple would be an argument in a df party over the pace of a dungeon run when someone wants a speedrun that other members cannot manage.

Or a tank that couldn't hold hate on a trash encounter and proceeded to get beligerent when told to hold hate after it causes deaths.

Or accusations of trolling and demands to kick because someone forgot how an encounter works in crystal tower.

Now i can embellish it all i like with what the person was thinking at the time and their outlook on people in general, but in the game it plays out less so than most depictions in the forums: either things recover;albeit not nessesarily to please the accuser, or people leave and the precious time they wanted to save is still gone.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

All I am saying is be nice to the people that are trying to learn and give it some time

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Players honestly wanting to learn and making an effort on their own initiative isn't the problem, they are to be applauded. The problem is those that take any advice as a personal attack on themselves as they cannot comprehend past their own ego that they aren't as good as they think they are, or simply they have entitlement issues where they feel they don't need to learn and that everyone else should cater to their needs and do it for them. They are what causes the problems, not the former.

When I join DF I expect there may be new players, and it is fun helping them (note helping, not carrying a dead weight) to get their first clear, even if a wipe or 3 is involved, laugh it off, bolster them, throw out some advice for next try. But I won't keep a plyer in who fails at the most basic things constantly, holds back the party and turns to insults when friendly advice is given or totally ignores it and continues to be a douche. I'll ask the party in party chat if they want to replace because, so the player can see why they are getting removed to try and shake them into seeing where the problem really lies. It always leads to a kick, tis a shame, but their actions where spoiling it for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players honestly wanting to learn and making an effort on their own initiative isn't the problem, they are to be applauded. The problem is those that take any advice as a personal attack on themselves as they cannot comprehend past their own ego that they aren't as good as they think they are, or simply they have entitlement issues where they feel they don't need to learn and that everyone else should cater to their needs and do it for them. They are what causes the problems, not the former.

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Yep, that seems to be the most problematic of the bunch and makes people jaded..
You can only deal with incompetence for so long when you're tackling tough contents where 1 person can wipe the whole raid. Do that for a few weeks, few months.. What do you expect? You get sick of the attitude.

I think the attitude is more prevalent in FF14, for most part because many of the players are first time MMO players. I'm not saying that MMO player base isn't toxic in their own right, but the sense of entitlement thinking you don't NEED to get better to tackle end-game content (just look at how many forum posts exist that promote every end-game content should be readily beatable by everybody) or not having a thick enough skin to deal with criticism of any kind is not as prevalent in other MMOs.. Simply because that's a common sight, you get used to it.


For example: I don't participate in coils, I've done T5 because my friend got a group together and needed a healer for it. Other than that, I've never had the desire nor the motivation to tackle it. I've done end-game raids before in other games, so I know what to expect.. I know how toxic and obsessed I can be when I'm in that environment. So I simply opt out of it. That comes with my previous experience of MMOs, I just know what to expect, what kind of work end-game raids will require, etc.

Many people in this game seem completely oblivious to this concept and expect that they should be able to finish 100% of all the contents within the game.. Sure, admirable, but they don't realize how much work they have ahead of them. How much min/maxing they need to do. WHY min/maxing is even a requirement in the first place.
That kind of crowd in end-game environment is just asking for trouble.. When 80% of the group has spent tens of million in gil, getting all the gear to BiS, pentamelding their accessories to min/max their stats, then they run into this one random guy who think he can do it with i110 gear (because previous encounters let you think this.. ST, WoD, Extreme Primals, all have a low gear check) then they wonder why people get pissed off for their unpreparedness and simply fail to see when people point it out that the problem indeed, lies with them.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Today I learned, being arrogant and self-centered is entertaining. "Have some fun and create a good read." For who, you?

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Some players will help. Some players won't, and they shouldn't be forced into it, nor should they be made to feel bad for not wanting to help right then. DF is not the only way to clear content-- there's always making a PF or asking friends for help. The only way you can guarantee that you'll get a group who will stick around while you learn it is to do one of those two things. Otherwise, with DF, people are free to leave as they choose for whatever reason.

You get what you get in DF. Sometimes you get a good group, sometimes you don't.

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No one is expecting you to help everyone at every waking moment. But don't join a DF party and then leave people hanging because you didn't get your instant gratification.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

But that is the crux of the issue. People are associating their negative definitions of elitists and applying it to the elite. You see it every day on these forums and in game. Just being good at the game frequently gains the ire of lots of people just for existing. Just read any of Kosmos' posts for the last few months.

People constantly lump the elite (people who play at a high level) with the 'elitist attitude' (being a jerk).

Add in that we (the elite) are scapegoats for every imaginable problem faced by those less successful in game. I am somehow the reason Joe casual hasn't beaten t9 because I as an elite player (or vet or whatever) don't spend my time after work joining his learning party. If we hint that someone could make an adjustment to improve we are lashed out at because we're telling people how to play, or my personal favorite, the weird attempt to shame us for trying. "Its just a game bruh! I have a REAL LIFE so I don't have time to learn your dumb nolife 'rotations' or 'mechanics'." As if being terrible is a badge if honor. Cracks me up every time. Oh and let's not forget about the link to rmt because we make it so impossible to progress that we force everyone to buy clears from....you guessed it, an elitist clear seller.

Sorry joe casual. I spent months practicing t9 before echo. Multiple hrs 2 to 3 days a week for MONTHS. I'm not oozing with sympathy because you cued solo in df 5 times and came crying to the forums with echo and 20 more ilvl in gear. Nor do I owe you anything. I've put my time in. I am not a terrible excuse for a human because I don't join you t9 prz HALP pf.

We are successful because we DON'T blame others for our failures. Instead of looking for excuses, look for solutions. The longer anyone blames their version of The Man for their failure, the longer you stay a failure. Take control if your situation instead of making excuses.

There are lots of elite players that are sick and tired of being labeled as the devil to all that is good and holy in an mmo. The OP described that. That's why it has so many likes and "I agree with op" posts. Being good (elite) has ZERO coorelation with being a jerk (negative connotation of elitist the Internet has chosen).

I don't remember the tracks star in high school being shunned and hated for being a dick by everyone slower just because they were good at something. But here on the internet, our success is apparently a direct attack on others who aren't as successful. I still blame the everyone gets a participation ribbon generation, but that's for another time.

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This pretty much sums it up entirely. Thanks for this.
I don't know why putting time and effort into the game suddenly means you're an asshole but apparently that's the case now.

Also, I would like to point out as people have said before, only about 10% of the community are end game raiders, so lets say 1% of those are actually 'elitists' who look down on everyone and are general assholes that's a very small number of people.
Now lets say just 1% of the non-end game community are at the other end of the spectrum and are those who call end-game raiders no lifers/elitists/ignorant/jerks. That's a hell of a lot more people that we have to deal with being jerks.

So you wonder why we tend to stop caring.

this will get fun in heavensward cant wait XD

From my perspective "elitist" and "good" are two different things.

When I am in a group with a good player they are usually quiet or they're helpful. If they see me goofing something up they'll offer advice in a non condescending way and I am always happy to listen since the insights of more experienced players are valuable. I've been playing this game for less than a month, I don't shun advice.

But then there are "elitists" as the internet has come to define them. They're also objectively good players but if they see me die to something their reaction is "Get good", "kick the mage" or "...seriously?" That's not helpful, that's antagonistic. Reactions like that just don't make us newbies feel very good about ourselves. Trust me when I say we don't like goofing up either.

I like to think that most people know the difference between these groups but it's human nature to remember negative experiences over neutral ones. There may be a knee-jerk reaction that comes over newer players when they see someone who is well geared and they just assume they'll be berated so they start snarling at the other players as a preemptive defense mechanism.

When I was playing a different MMO I was a high end raider and I dealt with sneering newcomers by being patient and kind. Sometimes they settled down sometimes not because some folks are just...well...obstinate jerks. Can't fix that.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Players honestly wanting to learn and making an effort on their own initiative isn't the problem, they are to be applauded. The problem is those that take any advice as a personal attack on themselves as they cannot comprehend past their own ego that they aren't as good as they think they are, or simply they have entitlement issues where they feel they don't need to learn and that everyone else should cater to their needs and do it for them. They are what causes the problems, not the former.

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This comes with a caveat. You have to actually present the advice as advice.

Far too often people don't tell people why they're screwing up, just that they suck. Or presenting it in an aggressive manner like "omg, how come you can't even dodge a simple AoE?". I see this far and away more often than I see people getting upset about the advice given. Most people get upset because of the manner in which it's delivered.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

This comes with a caveat. You have to actually present the advice as advice.

Far too often people don't tell people why they're screwing up, just that they suck. Or presenting it in an aggressive manner like "omg, how come you can't even dodge a simple AoE?". I see this far and away more often than I see people getting upset about the advice given. Most people get upset because of the manner in which it's delivered.

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But... if you're lv 50, how CAN you not dodge a blaring red spot right under your feet? No explanation, the person is simply not paying attention or underestimating the effects of the aoe, thinking they could just soak it up.. Neither of which deserve advice, advice can't fix that, there's no secret to dodging aoe, just gotta stay focused.