Raid boss Drop question on translation

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Originally Posted by AntonyB

Oh yes without a doubt, the sound of the new loot/drop system sounds a hell of alot better than the current. It also depends what they call rare tho, maybe it could just be the stuff like you get in the current instances? Then there is the rarer stuff(DL right now). Thinking about it, I wonder if it would be just the loser of the lots or the full PT that gets nothing who gets the tokens?

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The latest post from Bayohne basically confirmed that tokens will be rewarded as a consolation to anyone who lots for an item but doesn't get it. This basically only happens when more than one person lots on the same rare drop.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings,

I wanted to post a clearer version of the specific segment in question here.

4Gamer: What restrictions are there on acquiring rewards from bosses?

Yoshida: In a Realm Reborn, when players defeat bosses, rare items are guaranteed to drop.

For example, if a single party of adventurers defeats a boss, that party will receive two to three rare items. Players can choose to cast lots to win these rare items; however, players will only be able to cast lots three or four times a week, depending on the content. We've added reset timers so players can track this.

Players that cast lots but don't win will instead receive tokens, which can be collected and exchanged for items. So you are guaranteed to receive something regardless of the result.

4Gamer: Two to three players will definitely receive rare items. The other players will receive rewards as well?

Yoshida: For rare items, it's possible that an unlucky player may not win despite casting lots several times. In this case, the player can challenge one of the other contents while waiting for the timer to reset. I must say it's a little difficult to explain how it works without actually having you play the game.


Like Yoshida says in the interview, it will be easier to understand the system once you have a chance to try it out. Keep in mind that details are still being discussed and finalized and what is presented here is just a portion of it. As soon as we have more information to share you guys will be the first to hear it!

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Hi Bayohne (and Yoshida-san),

Thanks for the clarification and update.

We'll probably know a lot more when you finally have the official Lodestone Update on 2.0's Loot / Reward System, but I wanted to bring up a concern that some have mentioned, and suggestions to alleviate it:

* Concern *

• By limiting Players to be able to only cast lots on "Rare Items" 3 or 4 times per week, it could limit their motivation to want to go back and try that content (Raid / Dungeon / Boss Fight) when they finished their 3 or 4 tries. After all, why would they want to go back to "New Dungeon A" in 2.0, if they were out of their 3 or 4 lot attempts?

One solution would be something Square actually implemented in their previous online RPG, and something we saw a little bit of early on with the World NMs (Uraeus, Dodore, etc.):

* Solution *

• Please consider adding additional *Categories* of Items that can drop from Raids / NMs that *don't* count towards the 3 or 4 Lot Chances for "Rare Items." Examples include

• Rare Materials: So besides "Rare Items" (like Darklight), have Endgame Content drop Rare Materials that are part of a Synth, e.g., Astral Lumber, or Damascus Ingots, etc.

• Unique / Untradeable Special Items: Like the "Cursed Gear" idea and getting "Abjurations" or "Attestations of Might / Justice" etc., you could have Raids drop Special Items that you need to augment and alter gear, which would be another incentive for players to try the dungeon again.

• Primal Totems: Currently getting Inferno Tapers (for Ifrit) or Unmarked Keystones (for Moogle) are gotten off many generic mobs. Perhaps for Titan or Leviathan or Shiva, etc., you could get the Primal Tapers you need by doing certain Dungeons (completing them) (but needing a fewer amount of them), or that you'd get a Packet of 10 of them (like getting 10 Unmarked Keystones when you kill one of the NMs near Moogle) from a Dungeon.

• "One Use" Key Items to Spawn OTHER Bosses / Dungeons: Just like getting the Seal of Byakko, Seal of Suzaku, etc. in Final Fantasy XI, you could get a special Key Item for clearing a Boss Encounter / Dungeon / NM, that you'd need to gain access to a different Boss Fight / Dungeon.

• "Other" "Good" Dungeon Drops that Don't Count as "Rare": There are some good pieces of equipment in the current dungeons that aren't as good as Darklight (or as rare), but they're nice pieces to have. Yoshida-san should keep these as other incentives for players to go through dungeons, and these should *not* count towards your 3 or 4 Times to Lot per week. Stuff like:
  • Pince-Nez
  • Explorer's Bandanna
  • Mages Halfgloves
  • Veteran's Field Belt
  • Stonewall Earrings

Ultimately, it feels like the current Dungeons and Raids gave away too many items in completed form, wasting the opportunity to incentivize players and make new content last longer.

If in 2.0 / ARR, you had other Categories of Items that could drop from Raids that *don't* count towards your 3 or 4 Times per Week to Lot, I think that would solve the problem some of us are worried about:

That once you use up your 3 or 4 tries per week, you'd never want to go back into that Dungeon / Fight (unless you were helping your LS or friend).

By adding stuff like Rare Materials (like Uraeus Skin, or rare Astral Lumber, Ingot, etc.) that can only be gotten from that Raid / NM / Fight, and if that didn't count towards your 3 or 4 lots, then I could see this new system not being a problem.

People would still want to go back to that "New Dungeon A" even if they used up their chances on "Darklight" (Rare Gear), to try for other Items (like those listed above - Rare Materials, Special Augmenting Key Items, Rare Totems, etc.).

So you could have completed Rare / Valuable Items, and have items that require Rare Materials, involving Crafters and Disciples of War/Magic in 2.0, and bringing back incentive to go back through a New Dungeon, even if you've used up your 3 or 4 Lots per Week (to try for other stuff).

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Dzian

2:- Will tokens only be rewarded only for those who lose a lot on a drop? or will they be given to everyone who clears the content? If tokens are only awarded on losing a lot then imagine if a boss drops 6 items A B C D E and F. If the only item I want or need is item C for example and the boss never drops C then I won't lot. Does that then mean that once again we have a system where we could run content 100 times with nothing. If C never drops I'll never lot and thus I'll never earn any tokens or once again make no progress towards my goal of obtaining C. In this system the only way I could progress towards C for example would be to lot on items I don't want A B D E and F and hope I lose in order to earn a token. Thus it seems better to award tokens to everyone who clears content regardless of if they lot or not. In such a fashion it would not matter if item C never drops as sure it would suck but at least I would still be making a little progress towards it each time. This would also be true if I had already obtained ABDEF and only needed C to finish my set. How then would I make progress without going back to the current system of spam it and pray to the RNG gods.

3:- What happens to items if no one uses there lots. If 4 people want Item A 2 people want Item B and 2 want Item C. then what happens if Items D E and F drop? and everyone in the party is saving there lot for the items they want and thus they do not roll? Will Items D E F be completely lost or randomly distributed to party members as they exit. Again comes a situation where there's no progress because items DEF may drop multiple times leaving players still no closer to items A B and C which they actually want. and thus once again left with spam content and pray to the RNG gods. This is another reason why tokens should be given to everyone that clears content not just those that lose a lot.

It's not about the loot itself. It's about giving players the means to make and feel progress towards what they want to achieve. This is why people have been asking for token systems for the last 2 years. This is why tokens should be tradable for the main drops. Players do content for the main rewards. And it is those rewards they should feel they are at least making progress on. Even if drops are guaranteed they're not necessarily the right ones.

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Great questions and thoughts Dzian! :)

Definitely agree.

As you said, if you were hoping to get, say, "Item C" from a Dungeon, but only Item A, B, D ever drop in your runs, so you *don't* Lot, then what happens?

Would you never get a Token because you never lotted, and thus, you ran a dungeon constantly and got nothing?

And for Question 3, yah, it'd be really sad to see items that no one lots on (that's "Rare") just be thrown away because people didn't want to spend their 3 or 4 Lots on that (and were saving it up)?

And, I, too, would hope that they'll allow us to trade in our Tokens for the Real, 100% Full Powered Version of the Rare Items in question, not just a Weak Version.

Just make the loot system like XI.

Simple solution.

It's not really a concern if you go to other dungeons/content when you've used your lots on one of them. This way, throughout the week you'll be playing through all kinds of content instead of spamming flavor of the month stuff. Isn't that what SE's been pushing for, based on what Yoshi P says on all the interviews - players trying out all sorts of content instead of focusing on one.

Besides, with a controlled static, you can make it so you control your lots for guarantees and make the single content last days to a week even.

It's a flexible system that fits all kind of scenarios depending on how companies wanna handle their lots imo.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Besides, with a controlled static, you can make it so you control your lots for guarantees and make the single content last days to a week even.

It's a flexible system that fits all kind of scenarios depending on how companies wanna handle their lots imo.

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Hardly anyone I know in the game has, or wants to have, a static party and will therefore have some PUG elements in each party making this still not a very good system unless we always get token for successful runs.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Besides, with a controlled static, you can make it so you control your lots for guarantees and make the single content last days to a week even..

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But you can't control what drops, and I dont think anyone wants to be in a position where they need just one thing and its that one thing that never drops,

sorta like the various hamlet leg armors now... or the dol hats even.
a decent example of why tokens should work on all items.

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

Hardly anyone I know in the game has, or wants to have, a static party and will therefore have some PUG elements in each party making this still not a very good system unless we always get token for successful runs.

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Hardly anyone I know in game wants to PUG when they can be part of a static and develop teamwork to better attain success and regulate drops. So that's a nice subjective argument you've got there.

It's considerably better than an RNG considering there are 2-3 guaranteed rate drops every clear. Anyone who expected guarantees drops with no form of limits on getting them has been, and likely will remain, delusional.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

But you can't control what drops, and I dont think anyone wants to be in a position where they need just one thing and its that one thing that never drops,

sorta like the various hamlet leg armors now... or the dol hats even.
a decent example of why tokens should work on all items.

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There's implications regarding things we don't know yet. You seem to be stipulating varying drop rates among the rare drops. That's not known to be the case. Can simply be a random 3.

In the end, the timer acts as a new way to preserve the uncommon aspect of the rare drops in the way the horribly low rate RNG does now. However with guaranteed runs we have a degree of control simply not possible before. Also, having tokens work on the rare drops would just lead to a behavior where everybody lots for a win-win where they get either the rare or a token for the rare and its right back to spamming the content, yet only 3 times a week. What about that sounds in any way appealing?

Let the rare drops be rare.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

What about that sounds in any way appealing? .

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The fact that people could be sure they'll get what they want eventually. if it dropped great if it didn't you know you're at least a step closer to getting it.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Let the rare drops be rare.

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I completely agree. But that rarity should be governed by content difficulty and not by luck in any form.

If a content is hard then getting a token for clearing it is going to be hard, Getting enough tokens for what you want is going to be hard and thus rare items stay rare.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Bayohne (and Yoshida-san),

Thanks for the clarification and update.

We'll probably know a lot more when you finally have the official Lodestone Update on 2.0's Loot / Reward System, but I wanted to bring up a concern that some have mentioned, and suggestions to alleviate it:

* Concern *

• By limiting Players to be able to only cast lots on "Rare Items" 3 or 4 times per week, it could limit their motivation to want to go back and try that content (Raid / Dungeon / Boss Fight) when they finished their 3 or 4 tries. After all, why would they want to go back to "New Dungeon A" in 2.0, if they were out of their 3 or 4 lot attempts?

One solution would be something Square actually implemented in their previous online RPG, and something we saw a little bit of early on with the World NMs (Uraeus, Dodore, etc.):

* Solution *

• Please consider adding additional *Categories* of Items that can drop from Raids / NMs that *don't* count towards the 3 or 4 Lot Chances for "Rare Items." Examples include

• Rare Materials: So besides "Rare Items" (like Darklight), have Endgame Content drop Rare Materials that are part of a Synth, e.g., Astral Lumber, or Damascus Ingots, etc.

• Unique / Untradeable Special Items: Like the "Cursed Gear" idea and getting "Abjurations" or "Attestations of Might / Justice" etc., you could have Raids drop Special Items that you need to augment and alter gear, which would be another incentive for players to try the dungeon again.

• Primal Totems: Currently getting Inferno Tapers (for Ifrit) or Unmarked Keystones (for Moogle) are gotten off many generic mobs. Perhaps for Titan or Leviathan or Shiva, etc., you could get the Primal Tapers you need by doing certain Dungeons (completing them) (but needing a fewer amount of them), or that you'd get a Packet of 10 of them (like getting 10 Unmarked Keystones when you kill one of the NMs near Moogle) from a Dungeon.

• "One Use" Key Items to Spawn OTHER Bosses / Dungeons: Just like getting the Seal of Byakko, Seal of Suzaku, etc. in Final Fantasy XI, you could get a special Key Item for clearing a Boss Encounter / Dungeon / NM, that you'd need to gain access to a different Boss Fight / Dungeon.

• "Other" "Good" Dungeon Drops that Don't Count as "Rare": There are some good pieces of equipment in the current dungeons that aren't as good as Darklight (or as rare), but they're nice pieces to have. Yoshida-san should keep these as other incentives for players to go through dungeons, and these should *not* count towards your 3 or 4 Times to Lot per week. Stuff like:
  • Pince-Nez
  • Explorer's Bandanna
  • Mages Halfgloves
  • Veteran's Field Belt
  • Stonewall Earrings

Ultimately, it feels like the current Dungeons and Raids gave away too many items in completed form, wasting the opportunity to incentivize players and make new content last longer.

If in 2.0 / ARR, you had other Categories of Items that could drop from Raids that *don't* count towards your 3 or 4 Times per Week to Lot, I think that would solve the problem some of us are worried about:

That once you use up your 3 or 4 tries per week, you'd never want to go back into that Dungeon / Fight (unless you were helping your LS or friend).

By adding stuff like Rare Materials (like Uraeus Skin, or rare Astral Lumber, Ingot, etc.) that can only be gotten from that Raid / NM / Fight, and if that didn't count towards your 3 or 4 lots, then I could see this new system not being a problem.

People would still want to go back to that "New Dungeon A" even if they used up their chances on "Darklight" (Rare Gear), to try for other Items (like those listed above - Rare Materials, Special Augmenting Key Items, Rare Totems, etc.).

So you could have completed Rare / Valuable Items, and have items that require Rare Materials, involving Crafters and Disciples of War/Magic in 2.0, and bringing back incentive to go back through a New Dungeon, even if you've used up your 3 or 4 Lots per Week (to try for other stuff).

Thanks!

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the reason people would still run the content even though you cant lot anymore is to get other people in their FC gear. If you know who is getting what loot when before you enter then you shouldn't have to lot against anyone.