Crossover events and breaking immersion

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Originally Posted by Valic

You're kinda jumping the gun a lil too though, we literally don't have the full story. In fact, what we have so far is literally "we dunno anything that's going on but we need to find out".

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What you add to something should -- or more often, needs -- to play to the rules of the thing it's being added to, though. If the game you're adding the content to consistently provides some level of foreshadowing, connectedness, or whatever other form of lead-up to its events, then it's sensible that what you add to the game from elsewhere ought to do the same.

There will of course be some shock and awe figures that are only explained later, like Midgardsormr, some room for twists and the like. But simply throwing players into another franchise inconsistent with all that's come before it, sharing no references, patterns, or themes, is not setup for a twist. It's just a lack of effort that ignores the game surrounding it. That's not subversion; it's neglect.

I love NieR. I like that there's a crossover for it, even if I'd have preferred Yoko Taro work his magic on an actual XIV plotline, rather than merely borrowing the poster children of another franchise in place of coming up with something of our own. But the shallow means by which it's been attached to the game isn't even worth defending, imo. Fun enough raid, but an incredibly poor effort to connect it to XIV.

Anyone who played Nier Automata to completion (and possibly played previous tittles) knows that multiversal dimension hopping is built into its lore, so its not really far-fetched that something turned up on our side.

For the FF14 side, I will reserve judgment until we see the full story. For me Ivalice was more out of place in an uncanny valley kind of way: not quite apart from the world, but not quite integrated either, retaining its Tactics taste (which admittedly I'm not a fan of).

Regarding the Regalia... the visuals are somewhat out of place, but as far as function goes, its nothing that in world allagan or magitek technology cant achieve. And the visuals are rather easy to swallow, given the amount of half naked buff roes I see running around with chicken heads.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Anyone who played Nier Automata to completion (and possibly played previous tittles) knows that multiversal dimension hopping is built into its lore, so its not really far-fetched that something turned up on our side.

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Which, again, would mean something if and only if XIV was an additional ending to NieR, not the other way around. XIV isn't the it'll-be-explained-by-one-of-these-endings-someday game. I like that about NieR, but that's just not XIV, and it's being added to XIV. It therefore deserves more than just an implication that the lack of connecting content will eventually turn into some big twist. Given how rarely our implicit promises pay off, and how little creative depth this game typically affords any particular range of content, this game is the among the worst possible settings to rely on that.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which, again, would mean something if and only if XIV was an additional ending to NieR, not the other way around. XIV isn't the it'll-be-explained-by-one-of-these-endings-someday game. I like that about NieR, but that's just not XIV, and it's being added to XIV. It therefore deserves more than just an implication that the lack of connecting content will eventually turn into some big twist. Given how rarely our implicit promises pay off, and how little creative depth this game typically affords any particular range of content, this game is the among the worst possible settings to rely on that.

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Not sure what you mean. I explicitly stated that I am not judging the nier story integration until the 3rd raid is out. I just pointed out that there is precedent on both sides for multiple dimensions and hopping between them, so the crossover doesn't contradict either worlds rules.

I fully expect that we will get a... mostly acceptable explanation what the Nier stuff is doing on the First by the end of the third raid. We had some truly wild speculations between the other alliance raid parts too, trying to extrapolate where the story is heading. I don't see how thats any different, or why you expect an explanation after the first entry in the series.

It's a Yoko Taro story. We're getting thrown in at the deep end with no explanation for the first act; the second act will have some shocking twist or horrible revelation; and the third will have all the info to actually make sense of things (ish).

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Originally Posted by Valic

Big snip.

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Since you brought up not playing Nier.

NieR Gestalt/Replicant in terms of aesthetics would fit entirely within the realm of XIV. Earth had it's own Calamity as it were, and the villages you visit could be added as in game zones, and no one would so much as blink outside of the a special zone which, well, we actually got a similar treatment with Shadowbringers.

Automata is the same universe, same continuation of story. It just so happens to be set thousands of years in the future. If anything, aesthetically, it's only the YoRHa stuff that clashes for modernism, even in its own game. Forest Kingdom, Amusement Park, Desert Ruins, all things that really wouldn't be that different from things we have already seen on Novrant actually. Amusement Park leaning more on Crystarium architecture choices.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It's a Yoko Taro story. We're getting thrown in at the deep end with no explanation for the first act; the second act will have some shocking twist or horrible revelation; and the third will have all the info to actually make sense of things (ish).

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Let's not forget the three Drama CDs, manga, five novellas and orchestra concert only dialog readings.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Let's not forget the three Drama CDs, manga, five novellas and orchestra concert only dialog readings.

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Yeah, but those won't make it out of Japan anyway. Even though they have vital backstory and world-building info.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Yeah, but those won't make it out of Japan anyway. Even though they have vital backstory and world-building info.

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Still counts and canon. If you didn't know, the English voice actors for 9S and 2B did a reading of the orchestra dialogs. In character, with the music. It was very well done. And I was positive the DoD3 novellas were translated officially. It's been some years, so probably not. Anyhow, they count. Just because it doesn't make it to the west doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

See Kingdom Hearts Final Mix before being added years later for PS3/4.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

There will of course be some shock and awe figures that are only explained later, like Midgardsormr, some room for twists and the like. But simply throwing players into another franchise inconsistent with all that's come before it, sharing no references, patterns, or themes, is not setup for a twist. It's just a lack of effort that ignores the game surrounding it. That's not subversion; it's neglect.

I love NieR. I like that there's a crossover for it, even if I'd have preferred Yoko Taro work his magic on an actual XIV plotline, rather than merely borrowing the poster children of another franchise in place of coming up with something of our own. But the shallow means by which it's been attached to the game isn't even worth defending, imo. Fun enough raid, but an incredibly poor effort to connect it to XIV.

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Wrong, that's the point of a crossover. When the hell did FFXIV decide Neir was apart of its universe prior to ShB? Oh right, it didn't, because its a crossover lol. That's like saying the monster hunter event was bad because random palico posts a hunt poster on the board and shows up suddenly. Wrong, the whole point of a crossover is that they've never been apart of the world before until then. Again I also repeat, you're judging too quickly, and you're also basing this off of everything coming before Neir into FFXIV, rather than just playing FFXIV and taking it for what it is in FFXIV's universe. Wait and find out instead of declaring it lazy off the bat, personally I'm interested in seeing how they connected the worlds and even if they don't explain it well enough... Again it's not exactly out of place to see this sorta thing here in final FANTASY. If we wanna talk worst crossover....

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...pR18qX3TsU.png

How is this not the epitome of "wtf is this doing in FFXIV?"

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Originally Posted by Gula

Since you brought up not playing Nier.

NieR Gestalt/Replicant in terms of aesthetics would fit entirely within the realm of XIV. Earth had it's own Calamity as it were, and the villages you visit could be added as in game zones, and no one would so much as blink outside of the a special zone which, well, we actually got a similar treatment with Shadowbringers.

Automata is the same universe, same continuation of story. It just so happens to be set thousands of years in the future. If anything, aesthetically, it's only the YoRHa stuff that clashes for modernism, even in its own game. Forest Kingdom, Amusement Park, Desert Ruins, all things that really wouldn't be that different from things we have already seen on Novrant actually. Amusement Park leaning more on Crystarium architecture choices.



Let's not forget the three Drama CDs, manga, five novellas and orchestra concert only dialog readings.

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I've watched gameplay and I gotta say, I agree fully. The environments are gorgeous in that game and even give me FF vibes, one most are familiar with is that area with the glowing white flowers when you go into the cave... I don't actually know the spot's name or place but I'm sure any Nier fan knows what I'm referring to.

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Originally Posted by purgatori

Care to elaborate? :)

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Spoiler tag to avoid spoiling anyone...

At the end of the game 9S (well, everything that makes him who he is) and a few others (Adam and Eve being the ones they specifically mentioned) are put on a ship and launched into space with the intention of finding a new world to inhabit. It was a possibility that things would end the same way as they did on earth, which certainly appears to be the case on Norvrandt. Lots of conflict is already taking place and apparently has been for some time.