~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

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Originally Posted by Threads

I think XI had a 'nearly' perfect battle system. I will give you an example. The Crawler's Nest...

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Great post, Threads. We can only hope that the developers have something similar in the works. Bring on the strategy!

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Originally Posted by Threads

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1. You increase the length of the battles by (I didn't say it wasn't a factor)
a. You increase a monsters HP.
b. You increase a monsters DEF.
c. You increase a monsters resistance to certain elements or spells.
d. You increase the monsters ability to dodge.
e. You get the idea, etc...

2. You make emnity management key to strategy.

3. You make HP/MP management key to strategy.

4. You make position important to damage and strategy.

5. You improve upon monster AI.
a. Give monsters the ability to strike pre-emptively or anticipate attacks, etc...

6. You require teamwork from players by creating synergies between abilities.
a. Weaponskills, Combos, Battle Regimens, etc...

Ninja, White Mage, Bard, Warrior, Samurai, Thief

Snip

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These kind of analogy will work for party based content. Now in patch version 1.21 and beyond is where I believe the dev team made it clear that each job will fit a specific strategic role to play when players have to band together.

The question reminds, do you want classes to fit these roles when they are designed for mostly solo content? I think a lot of people is probably thinking of FFXI to much. (Which is not a bad or good thing)

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Originally Posted by Andrien

The dev team made it clear that each job will fit a specific strategic role to play when players have to band together.

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I'm trying to not get my hopes up on that one to be quite honest. Let's hope they will be able to pull it off, but personally, I don't think there will be a role for everyone, or rather, all roles being important enough to warrant not being replaced by the more useful one *coughpglcough*

Won't comment on normal mobs since I don't mind how fast they die (only because I don't have all classes at 50), but I would like to see some dragon or other bigger NM fights. SE will implement 2 more instanced raids in next patch which will help.

I don't think we can compare this with FFXI since the battle system was different. Do I want to go back to that style of fight? Maybe, if merit points were reintroduced and if all my classes are at 50 :D.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

These kind of analogy will work for party based content. Now in patch version 1.21 and beyond is where I believe the dev team made it clear that each job will fit a specific strategic role to play when players have to band together.

The question reminds, do you want classes to fit these roles when they are designed for mostly solo content? I think a lot of people is probably thinking of FFXI to much. (Which is not a bad or good thing)

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I will start by saying that strategy is essential regardless if you play solo or in a party. The dynamics might change a little bit but the rules I list above are not meant to be exclusive to one or the other. I will admit to focusing my remarks towards party play but did not intend to limit them to partying only.

That said, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It is my understanding that 'Jobs' are essentially 'Classes' optimized for party play. It don't think it means that 'Classes' will no longer be able to party or become meaningless. I could be wrong, I don't know for sure what the developers have planned.

I continue to hope that 'Classes' will be developed as stepping stone, where you learn the basics of your 'Class' with regards to gameplay and strategy. The ultimate goal; evolution into your 'Job'. Since after-all this is an MMO I don't believe solo play should be epitomized in everything. It should be a viable option but not the "be-all-and-end-all".

Regards

yeah but as long as we get an exp boost, so that way obody will complain at all.

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Originally Posted by Threads

I will start by saying that strategy is essential regardless if you play solo or in a party. The dynamics might change a little bit but the rules I list above are not meant to be exclusive to one or the other. I will admit to focusing my remarks towards party play but did not intend to limit them to partying only.

That said, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It is my understanding that 'Jobs' are essentially 'Classes' optimized for party play. It don't think it means that 'Classes' will no longer be able to party or become meaningless. I could be wrong, I don't know for sure what the developers have planned.

I continue to hope that 'Classes' will be developed as stepping stone, where you learn the basics of your 'Class' with regards to gameplay and strategy. The ultimate goal; evolution into your 'Job'. Since after-all this is an MMO I don't believe solo play should be epitomized in everything. It should be a viable option but not the "be-all-and-end-all".

Regards

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What I'm trying to say is, solo play is an option that we have. Jobs is brand new to us, and it is to my understanding that they specialize in specific roles for large scale content which we both seem to agree on. I'm being optimistic, jobs will really have to shine beyond classes with their exclusive abilities and with other jobs working together. Monsters will have to be the appropriate difficulty for them that will out shine class abilities.

Before patch 1.20 people were soloing Lv60+ monsters, and now it is not so likely common. Ultimately I think people are not considering the fact that there isn't many Lv50 content to choose from right now, and I think that is not a fair reason to adjust petty everyday mobs for grinding on classes either solo or in small parties.

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Originally Posted by fusional

i'm trying really hard not to be rude- but i'll go ahead and ask anyway. are you really stupid, or just really ignorant and jumping to irrational conclusions about something you know absolutely nothing about?

it could be a bit of both, but i'm gonna go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume it's a case of the latter.

it's absolutely ridiculous that i have to explain this to you, but here goes.

note the dates of the videos posted. pay close attention to the link and video i provided versus yours. note the instance was added in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, where the level cap was 80. note the video you posted is circa Cataclysm expansion, with a level cap of 85. note the enormous difference in health and damage in the videos. and the guy is in heroic firelands gear- a full 150 item levels higher than ulduar gear (226)...

so what you've basically done is take someone talking about time/level appropriate difficulty in content (say, Nidhogg from Zilart expansion in FFXI, level 75 content) and use a counter example that is absolutely not time/level appropriate (say, a level 95 character in Abyssea gear soloing level 75 Nidhogg). and that is your basis for a difficulty comparison?

for the love of christ, did you even READ the strat page? (obviously not)

so i ask again- are you irrational and ignorant, or just talking out of your ass? neither reflects particularly well on you, but i'm going to assume the latter again for your sake. because i'm such a nice guy.

so who exactly are you to judge difficulty and skill in videogames, anyway? i participated in server first kills of most HNM content in FFXI, and i'd say Bahamut V.2 and Vrtra were the biggest challenges. i participated in server first clears of SSC, TK, BT, and Hyjal, and just missed the mark on Sunwell. I cleared Ulduar hard modes in 10 and 25 man content, got my rusted and iron-bound proto drakes... and i did it *before* ICC, much less the increased level cap in Cata.

and none of my experiences in ffxiv even begin to rival any of my experiences in prior MMOs in terms of difficulty.

and tell me, what do you know of difficulty and skill, anyway? it took you over a MONTH to beat Moogle? and where's your speed achievement? show me your 80-85 DPS parses (from start to finish, not just phase 2).

see, here's the thing. when i talk about something being difficult, there's a pretty strong chance it's actually difficult. when i talk about something requiring skill, there's a pretty strong chance it actually requires skill. people took weeks and weeks to finally beat Yogg 25 regular, months to do the hard modes. the people who did that are clearly much better players than you. those people are also better than the majority of players who beat moogle within the first week. (again- more than a month before you)

i speak from a position of experience, you speak from a position of bias and ignorance. and yet you have the audacity to assume *you* are the expert witness here? keep dreaming, kid.

and p.s. thanks for underscoring *precisely* why i can't take 98% of this game's playerbase at all seriously.

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First of all, Fusional, you need to reevaluate your argument. You keep comparing XIV to WoW, and then you boast about your "feats" in XI as if the 3 are all connected...

I'm gonna hit you back with one of those condescending, rhetorical questions you seem to love so much. Are you making irrational statements on purpose, or are you just ignorant? "I'm a nice guy, so I'll assume the latter" -lol, don't mean to be a prick, but just thought you should "see yourself."

No one here, as far as I can tell, is saying that WoW is easier than XIV. Just b/c they dis WoW and *compare* it to XIV does not mean that they're saying **XIV** is harder. In fact, most of them are raging about how easy, and dull, XIV is in it's current state. When ppl insult XIV, using WoW as a reference, it shouldn't be difficult for you to figure out their logic:

XIV sucks a$$ just like WoW does, THUS adjustments need to be made to bring about the same challenges we faced in **XI** (not that difficult to grasp).

WoW is easy *COMPARED TO XI* , not XIV.....ok? Stop comparing WoW's content difficulty to XIV's content difficulty. Neither of them are challenging (compared to XI). That is the argument being made here.


It's like you're arguing against yourself....I think everyone agrees, on a scale of 1-100, WoW is like a 50, and XIV is a 10. That's not the issue, though. We want XIV in the same league as XI. And seeing how "familar" you are w/ XI's content, I think you can agree that WoW doesn't even begin to compare (Pre-Abbysea).

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Originally Posted by Dragon

This reminds me of my EQOA days when people would always zone the mobs to the local guard NPC because they couldn't handle said mobs. >:o

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Good ole EQOA, Man I got some good memories there on ye ole "ferrins Hope" .....God I loved that game and the way they had bard and its CMs set up.

Sorry about getting off topic, but the nastalgia came pooring in after reading his post.

I think a lot of this would be alleviated if they put in some more roaming NMs that people can give a damn about and mini bosses in areas that you couldn't just spam to death.