Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

They didn't do that for more DPS stance uptime. Every skill that has its enmity boosted is a low level skill. They want to help enmity management for tanks that don't have their tank stance yet.

---

That wasnt their intention, no, but it did exactly that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

Make tank stances level 15, lock all skill enmity modifiers behind tank stance, make DPS stances level 30, and otherwise shuffle the skills around if needed. Something like that maybe?

---

This would do the trick instantly.
People would still attempt to dance, but itd be extremely challenging and risky.
Even if enmity scaled with AP(damage really) it wouldnt be modified outside of Tank Stance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falar

I disagree. Tanking in this game has been a bit unique so far, which is what drew me to it.

Now we're in 4.0 and they are changing to suit the vocal minority, and the lower end of the playerbase at that. The people that said tanking was so hard, they wanted to not have to do damage at the same time. I guess this new tanking will bore the rest of us to moving on.

---

And I disagree with you.
If they designed the tanks around the lower end of the playerbase as you say, you know those tanks that always did less damage then a dps, would they really have nerfed our dps? Of course not, that would not make any sense at all. A more plausible reason for nerfing our dps has to do with how to many of us did more damage then a lot of the dps players in a lot of the content given.

I rather agree with the one you disagree with.
SE have a vision, they want tanks to tank in tank stance and mitigate damage, yet they design their fights so that even tanks who does nothing beside activating their tankstance can complete them, this in turn leads to players who know how to use their def cooldowns tanking in dps stance as they know how to mitigate that damage without using tankstance.
But if SE are going to not do this halfheartedly then they also need to made it so that when your tanking you have to use tankstance and def cooldowns in order to manage, this will of course make some content impossible for the "tankstance is enough I don't need no cooldowns" crew and they would most likely complain, complains to which I would say: If you after getting to lvl70 still do not know how to use a def cooldown then now is the time to learn to do something you should already be able to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ADVSS

That wasnt their intention, no, but it did exactly that.

---

Yes, it was :

Quote:

---

■4.01 Adjustments■
Ahead of 4.05, we will be making enmity-related adjustments for the three tank jobs. In light of the large amount of feedback we have received, we will boost the effect of enmity-generating combos and AOEs in order to make enmity management more predictable during the lower levels and while leveling.

---

The "while leveling" refers to dungeons where you'll probably end with severals mob on you at the same time, that's why they increased the enmity for Flash, Overpower and Unleash. And we all know that DPS stance uptime is vital for sack pulls, right ? And I suppose a SwO PLD using Flash does more damage than a ShO PLD using Total Eclipse too, thanks to its DPS stance, right ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

Make tank stances level 15, lock all skill enmity modifiers behind tank stance, make DPS stances level 30, and otherwise shuffle the skills around if needed. Something like that maybe?

---

Frankly, since classes lose more and more impact, they could simply do that, or even give the stance at level 10 for the first guildhest. If they want to enforce tanking in tank stance, they could also go as far as completely removing the enmity combos, since people tend to avoid them as much as possible anyway. 2 combos for PLD, 2 for WAR and a customizable one for DRK, there you go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

SE have a vision, they want tanks to tank in tank stance and mitigate damage, yet they design their fights so that even tanks who does nothing beside activating their tankstance can complete them, this in turn leads to players who know how to use their def cooldowns tanking in dps stance as they know how to mitigate that damage without using tankstance.

---

That's why I can't wait to see how Omega Savage will be. If it uses really tight HP checks, then SE's vision on the meta will be clear. And since it's Savage content, people can't reply that "They won't do that because casuals wouldn't be able to clear it..."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Frankly, since classes lose more and more impact, they could simply do that, or even give the stance at level 10 for the first guildhest. If they want to enforce tanking in tank stance, they could also go as far as completely removing the enmity combos, since people tend to avoid them as much as possible anyway. 2 combos for PLD, 2 for WAR and a customizable one for DRK, there you go.

---

You don't even need to go that far. A GLA could have a damage combo of Fast Blade => Savage Blade => Rage of Halone, which after unlocking Shield Oath becomes an enmity combo. In turn, a new damage combo (that deals higher damage) comes in to fill that gap, making gameplay about flowing between the enmity combo to hold the mob's attention and using a higher damage combo to deal a bit of extra damage.

The same could be done for WAR and DRK (DRK already does this, but it is heavily tied to Dark Arts).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

snip

---

you're missing my point here. in a few other MMOs i have played tanks were made fun because you had to CONSTANTLY 24/7 maintain agro and actually MANAGE it, and also use cooldowns efficiently to mitigate damage ALL the time. In FF14 you only need to really do 1-2 agro combos at the start and maybe another 1-2 throught the fight, this is not hard agro management and as for cooldowns? you only really need them for tank busters.
So basically in FF14 the "tanking" aspect is extremely easy and so the added layer of complexity is doing extra damage; THAT is what makes tanking "fun" in this game, its not the struggle for agro management or giving your healer a high five because you survived auto attacks that are hitting you for 80% of your health, its about doing damage and shrugging off tank busters, why do you think people use STR accessories? because its only tank busters you have to worry about.


Bottom line is that if they dont fix the current way tanks are tanking will NOT be fun anymore which will cause many tanks to switch to other classes (as thats very easy to do in this game because of the armory system) which will in turn drastically hurt game health. this is why they either need to embrace the dps tank meta or completely change how tanks play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Bottom line is that if they dont fix the current way tanks are tanking will NOT be fun anymore which will cause many tanks to switch to other classes (as thats very easy to do in this game because of the armory system) which will in turn drastically hurt game health. this is why they either need to embrace the dps tank meta or completely change how tanks play.

---

I'd argue it's not fun already. Let's hope SE is reading our feedback and is aware their tanking design is flawed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YitharV2

f I watched Netflix while tanking in TERA, I would get wrecked as a tank.

---

To be fair, TERA's gameplay mechanics are very different from FFXIV (I left tera at around 2013). The mechanics of a tera warrior are way more punishing than an FFXIV warrior, if you pay minimal attention to the encounter. Lots of timing and quick reflexes is required for them, but less so for eorzean warriors.

I enjoy being a tank that doesn't hit like a wet noodle.
It is fun to find the balance between survivability, emity needs and damage output during a battle situation. Tanks are designed with those 3 aspects (just look at what they are allowed to do, like dropping tank stance) but does FF14 do this well enough?

How the individual tank jobs feel play are separate discussions.


Tanking is not hard even before enmity boost, was the boost needed, maybe, like for the lower levels as was stated. It is setting a mark between easy and challenging. Easy can be boring and challenging can make people cry. Where does the mark land?

So much debate going on for how things should be tweaked but does it matter? It just what number does what and from where.
How the role plays should be more important.
This should be achievable;
1. A low skilled player can tank.
2. Players that take it to the next level are able to. This means assessing one's battle situation. Using higher damaging attacks instead of enmity ones. Increasing dmg but lowers survivability(drop tank stance etc). Use defensive abilities as needed.
Perhaps #2 just needs to be better tuned.

Tanks should be able to deal good damage but not as much as a correctly played dps job. I read most people like this and agree, why cant it just be that way.

Fixes?
Fending Accessory has vit. We meld str, that is ok.
Make tenacity have better scaling, why is this hard?
We have too much hp? savage isn't out yet. maybe future mobs are more damaging.
Make str provide more attack power in the calculations to make up from the change of taking it away from vitality. This keeps damage numbers and defense numbers separate and brings tanks closer to prior damage output. Str on left side gear increases already so scaling with higher gear and keeping pace with dps stays intact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lannybaby

To be fair, TERA's gameplay mechanics are very different from FFXIV (I left tera at around 2013). The mechanics of a tera warrior are way more punishing than an FFXIV warrior, if you pay minimal attention to the encounter. Lots of timing and quick reflexes is required for them, but less so for eorzean warriors.

---

That's my entire point. In TERA you needed to pay attention or you would get punished hard. Here it's like meh you make a mistake the healer would just fix it no problem. You shouldn't be able to watch Netflix while playing, because imo that defeats the whole purpose of playing a game (having fun and being engaged).

Quote:

---

[21:24](...) ik how the fight works tho SMN :D
[21:24](SMN) That isn't about the fight, it's about the class lol.
[21:24](Tank) me not paying attention doesnt have to do with the class
[21:25](SMN) You completely missed the point.
[21:25](Me) the SAM isn't doing as much damage since you're turning a ton
[21:25](Tank) and i said mb for moving
[21:25](Tank) nbut im not paying attention
[21:26](Tank) i move alot when i tank in every game iincluding this since ARR
[21:26](Tank) idk what to tell yall

---

And this is also why tanking needs to be more punishing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VenKitsune

you're missing my point here. in a few other MMOs i have played tanks were made fun because you had to CONSTANTLY 24/7 maintain agro and actually MANAGE it

---

yeah, nah
fighting party for aggro can go die I have played that garbage in the old WoW days. I have an idea of fun and trying to keep some invisible number up high enough to avoid the mob running off is not part of my class fantasy. It can go wherever grindy mmos and no group finding tool MMOs go.
Even DPS that think "tanks should focus on tanking" don't actually want this as soon as they get rekt from pulling aggro and dying, not to mention waiting even longer for queues

holding aggro as a mechanic was always a bad design idea left over from grindy mmo days until blizzard got rid of it and if you ask me they still took way too long
even enmity combos are pushing it for me
put it in the trash