Are role actions a nerf?

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Protect - Assuming it does in 4.0 what it does now, healers will be the only ones able to provide this buff.

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On the subject of Protect, since Stoneskin is gone, this skill will probably see very heavy changes.

As someone else said, it's one of the most mandatory, yet boring skill there is currently. It's very possible that SE simply adjusted the Def and mDef values by default in order to remove Protect from being mandatory, and gave it a Stoneskin effect.

We might have more info after the press is allowed to release footage of their time in Germany playing Stormblood.
Until then, it's really hard to make even a rough analysis of the situation since there's a lot of unknown data.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They haven't fixed the problem.

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Remember when you had to level ARC to 34 for Quelling Strikes, or GLA to 34 for Awareness?

Yeah, that's no longer a thing. That was the main issue with cross class, and they fixed that.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Remember when you had to level ARC to 34 for Quelling Strikes, or GLA to 34 for Awareness?

Yeah, that's no longer a thing. That was the main issue with cross class, and they fixed that.

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they could of simply just unlocked cross class problem solved instead of takin skills away

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

There is an indication. Cleric Stance will be way less mandatory to do healer dps than it is now.

It's also "the best-case scenario [...] now provide[ing an] optional 'boosts' to existing abilities.", right?

Heavy 40% for 20s, 50 potency, on a GCD doesn't sound very mandatory, too.

Pulling someone over to you every 150s? Mandatory my butt.

Surecast? Mandatory. NOT.

So why jump a horse over the hedge because of Divine Seal or Shroud?

Maybe rezz is not a 7ish s cast, but a normal 2,5s one now.
Then even Swiftcast for AST not mandatory anymore.

Maybe they finally fixed Protect as being the most boring and one of the most mandatory abilities at the same time.

The few things we know all indicate that role-based skills are optional and by way not mandatory to accomplish your given task.
We also know that SCH keeps it's thingies and that one of the goals of all this is to bring jobs of one role in line.
So SCH is another indication that the optional skills will not be mandatory for the other ones as well or that they likely have similar capabilities (or at least any capability) in the specific field.

"I use X ability all the time in Stormblood [and if they're still as mandatory and we don't get any compensation, then DEVS suck balls." is all you need to say right now. Yes, maybe they are. Maybe they are not. We'll see. But asking or assuming if they actually are, before we see, is kinda pointless.

"If they do a bad balance this game will be worse" isn't a moot point.


Even though I know that CS will be a pretty small addition, how could I say now "I won't take it"? Do I know the other options in detail? No.

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I'd say you're guilty of cherry-picking, here. Cleric's Stance, based on what we know, isn't mandatory. Surecast isn't. Heavy isn't. Nobody's focused on those, however - we're focused on other abilities that ARE currently mandatory, and don't have any announced changes.

Currently, Swiftcast is mandatory. Shroud of Saints and Esuna are mandatory. Protect is mandatory. That's four of the five role-based slots taken up for a White Mage. We have received absolutely NO indication that SE has gone and modified things to make these abilities less crucial (reduced Raise cast time, reduced need for MP / enmity management with Shroud, fewer fights with nasty status effects, etc.). You can hazard a guess that they have done so, but that's an assumption on your part, one that - as I stated before - places an awful lot of faith in a development team known for making boneheaded mistakes. I don't personally have such faith in SE, nor, it appears, do a lot of other people.

More to the point, however, what I need to say right now is whatever the hell it is I feel I need to say right now. You don't get to decide what is necessary for other people to say - they do. I also don't happen to consider this a pointless exercise. It helps determine whether I preorder Stormblood or not; it helps me identify in advance issues I want to examine when the combat changes release; it helps me release whatever degree of stress I'm feeling over pending changes to a job I've played for years now. It also, theoretically, helps SE identify potential problems a month before this system is finished, so that they can either course-correct in advance, or be readying a fix right from the start. Those are all valid reasons for discussing what I know so far, as well as any resulting concerns, with other people on the forums.

That said, I certainly don't begrudge you the right to remain optimistic. You're welcome to. I have no problem with an optimistic point of view. What I don't like is when people who are more optimistic than others attempt to trivialize the well-founded concerns of people who are feeling more pessimistic or concerned. That is essentially what you've done, in my mind, and it's why this reply is on the snarky side.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Currently, Swiftcast is mandatory. Shroud of Saints and Esuna are mandatory. Protect is mandatory. That's four of the five role-based slots taken up for a White Mage. We have received absolutely NO indication that SE has gone and modified things to make these abilities less crucial (reduced Raise cast time, reduced need for MP / enmity management with Shroud, fewer fights with nasty status effects, etc.). You can hazard a guess that they have done so, but that's an assumption on your part, one that - as I stated before - places an awful lot of faith in a development team known for making boneheaded mistakes. I don't personally have such faith in SE, nor, it appears, do a lot of other people.

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Many of your "must haves" currently are not necessarily "must have" when you actually look at the whole list.

• Swiftcast is only mandatory if someone dies.
• Lucid Dream (Cross Role Shroud of Saints) will only be "necessary" if you have enmity and/or MP troubles.
• Esuna is only necessary if there is a debuff that must be removed by it.
• Protect will only be mandatory if a party needs the damage reduction gained from it. (a fair amount of content does not need it when current but it is nice)
• Cleric Stance will be nice but not necessary being a 5% damage for 15s every 90s.
• Affection (Cross Role action with Divine Seal icon) with only be mandatory (if it is a direct copy of Divine Seal) only when you need the boosted heals to keep your party alive.
• Eye for an Eye will be useful when raiding like it currently is.
• Surecast is getting buffed to stop Sleep, Stun, Knockback and pulls in addition to preventing interruptions. Be prepared to join Paladin's in cheesing fights like Sophia.
• Rescue will be useful when you have dps that do not dodge AoEs.
• Break will be useful in any fight that you need to slow down an advancing enemy like in T5.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

they could of simply just unlocked cross class problem solved instead of takin skills away

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Problem is people were going into content without skills they needed. Like if you go into an EX Primal as a tank you should have Provoke no questions asked.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._makes_you_an/

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On a side note, I'd like them to do something TERA did with glyphs. Allow you to save configurations. If that was the case then swapping on-the-fly would be easy. Like this

considering changing these will require going into skills menu -> unequipping the ones you want to swap -> equipping the ones you want to use -> then changing your hotbars to incorporate the changed skills.
I do not see the vast majority of people ever changing them once set outside of maybe raid groups.

They do kind of serve as a way to remove some buttons though. Instead of having esuna + a cross class skill you now just have esuna as a cross class skill.
It kind of looks that way for a lot of this, like a new healer only virus. Scholar and astro had virus/disable already + a cross class skill, and now they'll just have the new virus
looks the same way with mp regen skills too. Maybe the mp regen on aetherflow got moved to summoner as a passive skill because if that really is mp regen scholars will get to go crazy and never worry about mp ever.

But everyone is getting reworked skills and 5 new skills so i'm sure most "lost" things have new unknown replacements.
It honestly looks like a lot of classes will be very different from their current state too

I do imagine the pull skill will get severely nerfed or changed completely within couple patches if people use it the way it seems like

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Many of your "must haves" currently are not necessarily "must have" when you actually look at the whole list.

• Swiftcast is only mandatory if someone dies.
• Lucid Dream (Cross Role Shroud of Saints) will only be "necessary" if you have enmity and/or MP troubles.
• Esuna is only necessary if there is a debuff that must be removed by it.
• Protect will only be mandatory if a party needs the damage reduction gained from it. (a fair amount of content does not need it when current but it is nice)
• Cleric Stance will be nice but not necessary being a 5% damage for 15s every 90s.
• Affection (Cross Role action with Divine Seal icon) with only be mandatory (if it is a direct copy of Divine Seal) only when you need the boosted heals to keep your party alive.
• Eye for an Eye will be useful when raiding like it currently is.
• Surecast is getting buffed to stop Sleep, Stun, Knockback and pulls in addition to preventing interruptions. Be prepared to join Paladin's in cheesing fights like Sophia.
• Rescue will be useful when you have dps that do not dodge AoEs.
• Break will be useful in any fight that you need to slow down an advancing enemy like in T5.

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Note SB may change this with the supposed skill gap fixes but:

Swiftcast:
Not only does it need to help raise but it is REQUIRED to have as a SCH, a MUST, ast and whm not as much but if bad things happen and I need to heal more though Dissipation, well it is a need.

Lucid Dream (Cross Role Shroud of Saints) will only be "necessary" if you have enmity and/or MP troubles.
Always needed in DF, you are going to run in low skill more often then not, making it a need to use for hate issues or use to DPS more as a healer to make up DPS lacking DPS.

Esuna is a need, paralyses means DPS loss. healing though poison is a DPS loss. I wanted leeches at 18 not 40, because of these issues.

Protect is a need, less damage taken means more room for DPS.

Cleric stance, I can't say.

Funny how you label eye for eye as more useful then above, but is a need in large pulls regardless.

No idea with surecast

no idea about rescue without seeing it in game
break , same as^

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Problem is people were going into content without skills they needed. Like if you go into an EX Primal as a tank you should have Provoke no questions asked.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._makes_you_an/

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People need to stop over rushing in general, I wonder if japan servers have mass problems with ilevel bypassing problems or gimping it up ability wise.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Many of your "must haves" currently are not necessarily "must have" when you actually look at the whole list.

• Swiftcast is only mandatory if someone dies.
• Lucid Dream (Cross Role Shroud of Saints) will only be "necessary" if you have enmity and/or MP troubles.
• Esuna is only necessary if there is a debuff that must be removed by it.
• Protect will only be mandatory if a party needs the damage reduction gained from it. (a fair amount of content does not need it when current but it is nice)
• Cleric Stance will be nice but not necessary being a 5% damage for 15s every 90s.
• Affection (Cross Role action with Divine Seal icon) with only be mandatory (if it is a direct copy of Divine Seal) only when you need the boosted heals to keep your party alive.
• Eye for an Eye will be useful when raiding like it currently is.
• Surecast is getting buffed to stop Sleep, Stun, Knockback and pulls in addition to preventing interruptions. Be prepared to join Paladin's in cheesing fights like Sophia.
• Rescue will be useful when you have dps that do not dodge AoEs.
• Break will be useful in any fight that you need to slow down an advancing enemy like in T5.

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Yes, they are all useful. But we can't have them all anymore. And since I won't know in advance if people are going to take lots of damage or die and eat up all my mp, I NEED to be prepared with Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, and Divine Seal.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes, they are all useful. But we can't have them all anymore. And since I won't know in advance if people are going to take lots of damage or die and eat up all my mp, I NEED to be prepared with Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, and Divine Seal.

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Protect and a cleanse effect, esuna, or whatever, is a standard for healers in like every mno in existence? (or least in ff) It shouldn't be filling up a limited list of "bonus" abilities.