#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Strongly disagree on the blood lilly suggestions. The whole idea about the blood lilly is that is makes lilly heals dps neutral. Basically giving lilly heals the same function as ogcd heals, without making them ogcd. Adding that mechanics into an attack spell gives lilly heals an opportunity costs like any other gcd. And then they'd have to nerf WHM damage to keep its dps in line with other healers, and it once again lacks "ogcd" healing compared to other healers.

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I actually think a dps lily spender that's instant cast and low potency (like 150 or 200) is a good solution to sometimes being "forced" to use a lily when you don't need healing but you're about to cap. Also provides a meaningful movement option without being a strict upgrade over Glare (so you'd be rewarded for finding a way to turret).

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Originally Posted by JanineBeckinsale

Wait until someone realize how much self-sustain & mit a lv90 PLD has

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I agree to this.. They could have simply removed all the passive healing from the spells and instead of regen attached to Holy Sheltron, it should have been given the Convalescence effect so we're are forced to use Clemency on ourselves, when doing solo content or to help the healer topping us off

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

I actually think a dps lily spender that's instant cast and low potency (like 150 or 200) is a good solution to sometimes being "forced" to use a lily when you don't need healing but you're about to cap. Also provides a meaningful movement option without being a strict upgrade over Glare (so you'd be rewarded for finding a way to turret).

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150 or 200 potency is still an upgrade over Glare spam. Lillies are now perfect dps neutral, any added damage to lilly mechanics is a dps upgrade. And you act like this would be an overal upgrade, it's not going work like that. Damage output is balanced towards the result, not towards the individual spells. This will just mean other parts of WHM have to be nerfed and it has to make more choices between doing more damage and healing. Which is the exact thing they avoided by adding the lilly mechanic. And they did that because WHM players had complained for ages they lacked ogcd, but the devs wanted to keep WHM more gcd focussed. And when heals are not needed, you can already use the lilly heals just for movement and still be fully dps neutral.

So again nope, it's a terrible idea. This will return WHM to "we are lacking ogcd heals", and ruins a perfectly fine mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

JP already voiced their opinions and find no issues with the current iteration of healers since it's their way to "relax", as such, I believe it's time to stop going over to JP forums and attempt to have them join this cause. Pushing it further is already making some folks there extremely angry because machine translation fails to contextualize the politeness and kindness in their language and ultimately will create a wider gap than there already is.

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I agree. Support from JP would have been nice, but the non-JP player base is larger than JP and we can spread awareness without them too. Yoshi-P watches western content creators and reads western platforms.

Don't let the people opposed to the strike intimidate you with lies about having to post in Japanese to be heard. Their interests involve creating conflict, reducing our confidence by telling us we're doing it wrong and distracting us with unnecessary tasks like learning to post in a different region's forum. No. We don't need to join arguments and make justifications. We're not playing healers and that's it. The reasons are written plainly on the first page.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Their first question is do we want recovery from the tanks removed, or do we want to just reduce how often they can provide sustain?

Their second question is if we want DPS on healers to be more complicated, how complicated should it be? If we also want to heal with the GCD, how often should we be healing with the GCD? For example, would we want a healer with a DPS rotation like Warrior's where healing is added to the job? Or a DPS rotation like Summoner's where only healing is added to the job? Or would we want new healer job mechanics?

They also saw us referencing "5 years," so were we happy with healers in Stormblood? If so, what was good about healers in Stormblood?

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1. I think that a tank's approach to self-sustain should be proactive. If you correctly anticipate the incoming damage pattern, you should have more survivability through a timed, context-dependent effect.
   
   What I mean by this is having an action like Clemency's heal potency scale inversely to your current health. Or perhaps having an action like Abyssal Drain's heal potency scale up in proportion to the amount of damage that you've received in the past 5 seconds.
   
   If you want to take more of a reactive approach, then it has to be tied to some form of resource management. The problem with tanks currently is that they have a lot of passive 'regens' either built in to the rotation or built into defensives that you would use anyways. On top of that, there are reactive burst heals that are available on demand, but have no real cost to use. It's like playing a healer where all your defensive actions are free and oGCD.
   
   The likely reason this was introduced was to make tanking less anxiety-provoking, by giving tanks a button they can press whenever their HP becomes uncomfortable. But the experience of tanking depends on the player having that discomfort and managing it.
   
   
2. This will always be controversial. Support jobs should still individually feel unique to play in terms of their damage rotations in addition to their defensive toolkits. You cannot achieve this with only one or two damage buttons. Tanks still have relatively simple rotations in comparison to DPS, but it's much more of an even split between damage dealing actions and defensive/healing actions.
   
   I don't believe that it's a question of GCD vs. oGCD. It's about having meaningful resource management. The resource cost of a GCD is time, but there are other types of resources that can limit access to defensive actions and force players to make tough decisions.
   
   As for unique healer mechanics, I want to see healers have more ways to enhance their teammates effectiveness. Effects like Expedient can be difficult to quantify the benefit, but can influence uptime and help with executing mechanics. Group/team based movement actions are not well explored. Can you create a portal between two points on the arena to help some teammates gain uptime? Could you give a teammate a single target buff that they can consume on demand to gain a temporary speed boost?
   
   
3. Stormblood was probably the point where FFXIV started to move away from a 'trinity' design with interdependent roles, towards more of a team 'solo player' experience. Support roles were hit hardest by this.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

So again nope, it's a terrible idea. This will return WHM to "we are lacking ogcd heals", and ruins a perfectly fine mechanic.

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If WHM is lacking heals they won't be able to fit Afflatus Harm anyway and there's no reason to nerf Glare/Misery damage.

If they're not lacking heals, which I'm pretty sure is true past level 50 (Blood Lily is 74 for reference), they can be burned as instant cast damage and the potency can be taken from the Blood Lily, we're not actually trying to increase WHM damage but address all the people that burn it on overheal just to nourish the Blood Lily

Also on the topic of tanks, I generally think they should have the ability to be incredibly sturdy, but I think that utilizing self healing to achieve that is a bit misplaced, and overused. I think I would prefer stronger active shielding, and mitigation over self healing.

I've read a bunch of japanese posts after a similar thread was made on their forums, and they seem much more split than here (which, for many of us, seems alien). With english forums not being read, while theirs look like they are much more likely to be (judging by their moderation), odds are higher that posting on their forums will yield more results. I use deepl for translation, it does a good job.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

If WHM is lacking heals they won't be able to fit Afflatus Harm anyway and there's no reason to nerf Glare/Misery damage.

If they're not lacking heals, which I'm pretty sure is true past level 50 (Blood Lily is 74 for reference), they can be burned as instant cast damage and the potency can be taken from the Blood Lily, we're not actually trying to increase WHM damage but address all the people that burn it on overheal just to nourish the Blood Lily

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At level 50, a WHM primarily uses GCD heals. And Lily heals were introduced to avoid the opportunity cost of GCD heals.

So again, using Lily heals would still have an opportunity cost where you lose DPS to heal. While you can choose to accept that cost, it remains an opportunity cost. Optimal DPS, which is the end all be all in FF, would mean using Lilies for direct damage. If you can't fit those proposed spells, you aren't performing your "job" according to the FF meta.

To get optimal DPS, you'd use Lily heals as little as possible and rely on your co-healer to keep everyone alive. This results in the WHM hardly healing at all, except for using Assize on cooldown (which often results in wasted heals since, unlike Lilies, it lacks flexibility in usage). Your only significant healing would come from longer cooldown OGCD abilities. These longer cooldown abilities are Asylum (90s cooldown) and Liturgy of the Bell (180s cooldown) for AoE healing, and Benediction (180s cooldown), Tetragrammaton (60s cooldown), and Divine Benison (30s cooldown) for single-target healing. Without Lily heals, WHM has very little OGCD AoE healing, which is only sufficient in fights with significant healing support from co-healers or tanks, or when incoming damage is trivial. These latter two are what people are trying to address in this thread.

Even with Lily heals, WHM has the lowest HPS in recent healing statistics on FFLogs for savage content. It doesn't need any further healing nerfs.

If you still disagree, please explain how these issues could be avoided. Do you believe the existing OGCD AoE heals are sufficient for a healer's kit? Asylum is a weak HoT, and Liturgy has a 3 minute cooldown. Without Lilies, you can't use Plenary Indulgence on OGCD heals, reducing AoE healing even further to a level far below what a WAR can do. Or do you think the FF community will stop demanding every last point of damage from players? If so, you'll need a far bigger plan than just a few spell additions.

I hope for the day ast gets their cards back to having flavor. That is but a pipe dream I have...