#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

wait wait thats not fair, they also got a brand new shiny .....healing button to go with their shiny bahamut.

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I can't with the glamazon Bahamut and his tantalizing definitely much needed healing ability

Ty devs

I saw that the reason they don’t allow sage dots to stack is because of JP feedback. Reasons like too much of a hassle to keep up, range is too narrow (hello fluid aura from ARR and heavensward), feels clunky, etc. That they prefer brain dead dps rotation so they can focus on healing.

It’s extremely disappointing. But also what healing do they want to focus on?? In current endwalker in top I don’t even use gcd healing till P3 and that’s while the boss is untargetable mind you. And that’s in an ultimate fight. I barely gcd healed anything in top. The only content that surprisingly forced me to gcd heal was criterion savage. No not savage raids and not ultimate.

So again what healing do they want to focus on? Maybe JP healers are just very inefficient. Or at least the vocal ones on their forums. Maybe even dare I say it, bad? Otherwise I must be playing a different game where healing needs to be focused on.

Hopefully this gets fixed in dawntrail otherwise yay….another two years of spamming the same button. What engaging gameplay! But I sincerely doubt it. They’d have to fix encounter design to actually make us gcd heal and I don’t see them doing that.

We have too many ogcd heals in our kits and frankly they’re too strong. I don’t see anything in this game requiring seraphisim from scholar to heal through. That skill is so broken. The only time that would actually get used to its full effect is if your cohealer is dead, and there’s an almaghest mechanic happening that doesn’t require a body check. But with how many body check mechanics are in the game recently I doubt even then the scholar could save the run.

The constant body checks also uniquely affect healers in a negative fashion. Healers are the fixers of the group. It stops us from having a chance to pick up the pieces to fix the problem. It cuts off a gameplay element that healers can engage in. There’s only a few instances in savage and ultimate where you can actually raise someone and still continue the fight and those windows are very tight.


But hopefully, maybe something will change in dawntrail. I sincerely doubt it though.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Not true. The purpose of the claim was to debuke the idea that somehow this thread being over 500 pages must somehow represent a large portion of the the gaming demographic. Thus pinpointing the fact that 360 people liking the post out of a 257k daily player audience clearly indicates there is no way to say that for certain. Judging by this thread alone (which again was also the parameters used to support a larger viewpoint due to it's 500 page length), we have 0.001% of the audience supporting said ideology.

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Don't bother Kira, those striking are absolutely 10000% convinced their views are the majority view of the player base that plays heals that they certainly don't listen when healer mains like myself say otherwise. They also seem to think that the echo chamber that is the overall dumpster fire of these forums represents the whole sum total majority view of the playerbase when MOST players never step foot in here and it only tends to be the loudest complainers that post feedback.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Don't bother Kira, those striking are absolutely 10000% convinced their views are the majority view of the player base that plays heals that they certainly don't listen when healer mains like myself say otherwise. They also seem to think that the echo chamber that is the overall dumpster fire of these forums represents the whole sum total majority view of the playerbase when MOST players never step foot in here and it only tends to be the loudest complainers that post feedback.

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Even if it was true that the "Majority" of people are okay with healers, literally any election ever has proven why trusting the majority to make an intelligent decision about things that affect them is often a bad idea. That's also ignoring just how many people have given up and just stopped playing XIV in general because of how trash the healers are. They're not going to be here talking about the game. They're busy actually enjoying literally anything else that doesn't make them depressed.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Not true. The purpose of the claim was to debuke the idea that somehow this thread being over 500 pages must somehow represent a large portion of the the gaming demographic. Thus pinpointing the fact that 360 people liking the post out of a 257k daily player audience clearly indicates there is no way to say that for certain. Judging by this thread alone (which again was also the parameters used to support a larger viewpoint due to it's 500 page length), we have 0.001% of the audience supporting said ideology.

Any attempts at pinpointing my topic as indicating the audience as a whole is shifting the message, especially since this thread would largely be representative of those falling within the 367 people that supports the OP's message.

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The purpose of a claim doesn't make the claim true or false. And doens't change the meaning of the words used to make a the claim. And people not posting on the forums doesn't prove anything. That doens't prove they either agree, or disagree.

You know it's alright to admit you made a mistake (even if was very silly to make the same mistake you are accusing others of, in the very same post), and that it wasn't your intent to make assumptions about opinions of the wider FF playerbase. Doubling down in such an obvious logial falacy doesn't give credit to any of your opinions.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Don't bother Kira, those striking are absolutely 10000% convinced their views are the majority view of the player base that plays heals that they certainly don't listen when healer mains like myself say otherwise. They also seem to think that the echo chamber that is the overall dumpster fire of these forums represents the whole sum total majority view of the playerbase when MOST players never step foot in here and it only tends to be the loudest complainers that post feedback.

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weird cause most healers are displeased with the changes, your saying your ok with sge dont have double dots in DT in the end?
your claiming based on your view that healers are perfect then everyone else think they ok? cause from being seen alot had their soul taken from the DEVS changes...

you may be right the views are not majority but reality a bit disagree with you.

the fact it got this coverage, many people agree with the core reasons of their strike and wishing healers to be better tells a different story buddy.

maybe not healers will strike but it doesnt mean they dont get the reasons behind it and agree that stuff need to be changed...

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

weird cause most healers are displeased with the changes, your saying your ok with sge dont have double dots in DT in the end?
your claiming based on your view that healers are perfect then everyone else think they ok? cause from being seen alot had their soul taken from the DEVS changes...

you may be right the views are not majority but reality a bit disagree with you.

the fact it got this coverage, many people agree with the core reasons of their strike and wishing healers to be better tells a different story buddy.

maybe not healers will strike but it doesnt mean they dont get the reasons behind it and agree that stuff need to be changed...

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No, I don't care if it has double DOTs or not. I've played other jobs, such as bard who has double dots, and I was thrilled the day they added the magic button that refreshed BOTH DOTs simultaneously because god forbid I get caught even in casual content by try hards that would call someone out for letting a DOT fall off even for .5secs.... so yeah, i'm glad i don't have to manage two DOTs... it was annoying on bard before they added the skill that refreshed both, it was annoying on scholar back in the day, it was annoying on Summoner back in the day. I even healed back when stance dancing was a thing, also highly annoying. I've been through all the ways healers have changed and the current way they play, both shields and pure heals is a direct result of feedback the devs received over the years and that's what the majority of strikers seem to overlook. Healing got so hard that people wouldn't TOUCH the job. They made it easier, then there was still a large chunk that said "I don't want to dps I want to heal" they took away all but the bare minimum and now a small portion of the player base wants to reverse course on that. I'm at the point where I'm convinced there will never be a happy side in this, but at the end of the day the Devs do have more data about things than anyone knows and there is clearly a reason why they are sticking to the current healer design.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Don't bother Kira, those striking are absolutely 10000% convinced their views are the majority view of the player base that plays heals that they certainly don't listen when healer mains like myself say otherwise. They also seem to think that the echo chamber that is the overall dumpster fire of these forums represents the whole sum total majority view of the playerbase when MOST players never step foot in here and it only tends to be the loudest complainers that post feedback.

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Thank you, this is the entire point I was trying to make, because people were so shocked to see the devs go the opposite direction of what was asked for here and for me, it somewhat makes sense. The idea that the topics claimed here, especially in this thread, somehow representing the gaming audience as a whole makes no sense when you compare the playerbase count versus the amount of people posting on the forums. It's quite obvious that the topics seen here express a very small minority of the gaming audience as a whole.

i find it funny when people try to diminish forum feedback as if it shouldn't be considered because "it isn't the majority of the player-base"
Then why have forums in the first place?
People are being vocal about healers since HW and in every expansion the same issues become even more apparent.

- AST gets botched and reworked >>every single expansion<< and i'm not even kidding.

- SCH, the intelectual tactician, is facing an identity crisis going for the angelic aesthetic and received no changes to energy drain, not even look-wise, and no new ways of spending fairy gauge, but sure, take this angelic glamour that turns you into a healing turret because this is exactly what is needed thanks to how hard content is to heal.........

- SGE receiving another DOT but it doesn't stack so basically nothing changed

- and WHM? idk take this extra tetra stack and a 400 pot team-wide shield that becomes a regen so you can have more free time spamming your 1 button...

I've seen many players, both casual and hardcore, criticize the direction healer role is facing and it looks like there are NO healer players in the dev team, or they simply don't care.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

No, I don't care if it has double DOTs or not. I've played other jobs, such as bard who has double dots, and I was thrilled the day they added the magic button that refreshed BOTH DOTs simultaneously because god forbid I get caught even in casual content by try hards that would call someone out for letting a DOT fall off even for .5secs.... so yeah, i'm glad i don't have to manage two DOTs... it was annoying on bard before they added the skill that refreshed both, it was annoying on scholar back in the day, it was annoying on Summoner back in the day. I even healed back when stance dancing was a thing, also highly annoying. I've been through all the ways healers have changed and the current way they play, both shields and pure heals is a direct result of feedback the devs received over the years and that's what the majority of strikers seem to overlook. Healing got so hard that people wouldn't TOUCH the job. They made it easier, then there was still a large chunk that said "I don't want to dps I want to heal" they took away all but the bare minimum and now a small portion of the player base wants to reverse course on that. I'm at the point where I'm convinced there will never be a happy side in this, but at the end of the day the Devs do have more data about things than anyone knows and there is clearly a reason why they are sticking to the current healer design.

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yes it called being stubborn and ignore feedback.

tbh being afraid of being called out is a you problem not a dev.
il be clear about it, dev problem is when skills don't function or when there is a huge disparity between each job or major issues with a job classic example is ast apm issue or mp issues in shb not someone calling a person out cause he didn't put a dot which at this iteration if you didn't is kind of embarrassing not to so i guess your in an even worse position now bud.

while you and me dont care about double dots, you had the majority of healers in other social media mourn and had their soul ripped so guess what that says...(a hint: majority means more the half agree with an opinion)

so you don't represent the masses, neither am i but reality proves that healer community do care about the issues brought by the healer strike and its not something you can deny well unless you prefer to bury your head in sand and go lalala.

cause the truth is, if people didn't care at all. this thread would have been ignored and not liked by more then 10 people.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Thank you, this is the entire point I was trying to make, because people were so shocked to see the devs go the opposite direction of what was asked for here and for me, it somewhat makes sense. The idea that the topics claimed here, especially in this thread, somehow representing the gaming audience as a whole makes no sense when you compare the playerbase count versus the amount of people posting on the forums. It's quite obvious that the topics seen here express a very small minority of the gaming audience as a whole.

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*extreme sarcasm incoming*
But it made it to big streamers' streams and some gaming websites posted articles about it so it MUST be the majority view..... yet its a non issue on the ffxiv subreddit which has far more members and activity than the official forums, the majority of articles that got posted with comments had people going "huh, why tho? no me" and yet they still are stubborn in their view that because it got around 300 likes and 5000 comments (mostly arguing with those that don't agree with them) that somehow they are the majority.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

It's quite obvious that the topics seen here express a very small minority of the gaming audience as a whole.

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You fell in a common pitfall of making assumptions, unfortunately. The fact that people don't read/post on forums doesn't automatically mean they do not agree or feel the same way. Otherwise, what you are saying is sensible.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

No, I don't care if it has double DOTs or not. I've played other jobs, such as bard who has double dots, and I was thrilled the day they added the magic button that refreshed BOTH DOTs simultaneously because god forbid I get caught even in casual content by try hards that would call someone out for letting a DOT fall off even for .5secs.... so yeah, i'm glad i don't have to manage two DOTs... it was annoying on bard before they added the skill that refreshed both, it was annoying on scholar back in the day, it was annoying on Summoner back in the day. I even healed back when stance dancing was a thing, also highly annoying. I've been through all the ways healers have changed and the current way they play, both shields and pure heals is a direct result of feedback the devs received over the years and that's what the majority of strikers seem to overlook. Healing got so hard that people wouldn't TOUCH the job. They made it easier, then there was still a large chunk that said "I don't want to dps I want to heal" they took away all but the bare minimum and now a small portion of the player base wants to reverse course on that. I'm at the point where I'm convinced there will never be a happy side in this, but at the end of the day the Devs do have more data about things than anyone knows and there is clearly a reason why they are sticking to the current healer design.

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PFFFFFFFFFFTT! You serious? The same devs that designed 1.0, because they "clearly knew better". This dev team does not have a great track record of making good decisions for their playerbase. Look at the condition of Viera and Hrothgar, and tell me that this dev team makes design choices for clear reasons. The same dev team that had to nerf Ninja because players found a better rotation. The same dev team that had to buff AST after telling people for MONTHS that they just didn't understand AST.

Also, who are these imaginary try hards who will yell at you for dropping a DoT? Cause you're out here making up enemies to fight in your head just like you're making up a quality dev team.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

yes it called being stubborn and ignore feedback.

tbh being afraid of being called out is a you problem not a dev.

while you and me dont care about double dots, you had the majority of healers in other social media mourn and had their soul ripped so guess what that says...(a hint: majority means more the half agree with an opinion)

so you don't represent the masses, neither am i but reality proves that healer community do care about the issues brought by the healer strike and its not something you can deny well unless you prefer to bury your head in sand and go lalala.

cause the truth is, if people didn't care at all. that thread would have been ignored and not liked by more then 10 people.

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uh you must not be on the same social media as me, because no, most healers i know and posts i've seen have been quite the opposite.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

The purpose of a claim doesn't make the claim true or false. And doens't change the meaning of the words used to make a the claim. And people not posting on the forums doesn't prove anything. That doens't prove they either agree, or disagree.

You know it's alright to admit you made a mistake (even if was very silly to make the same mistake you are accusing others of, in the very same post), and that it wasn't your intent to make assumptions about opinions of the wider FF playerbase. Doubling down in such an obvious logial falacy doesn't give credit to any of your opinions.

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It does make the claim false, that's the point. There is no way to state that traffic value seen here somehow represents the majority of the gaming bloc within FFXIV, because it doesn't. The only correct statement you made in replying is that people not posting on this thread doesn't prove that they agree or disagree. But it does prove that this threat cannot and should not be the gauge as to what the majority of players feel towards these topics.

So you attempting to twist the narrative into a gotcha viewpoint does nothing but clearly attempt gaslight me into somehow believing I was stating the FF audience believes in my opinion, and reflects a lack of listening to what is actually being said, versus what you want to be said.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

The silent majority has spoken by making healer queues so short,

if the game's playerbase likes healers so much, why aren't they playing healers?

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Another self quote moment

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

uh you must not be on the same social media as me, because no, most healers i know and posts i've seen have been quite the opposite.

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well i don't ignore those that think differently then me so that can also be the reasons.
i can disagree with their opinion but i won't cancel them out but you do you.

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Originally Posted by Isala

[…]Also, who are these imaginary try hards who will yell at you for dropping a DoT? Cause you're out here making up enemies to fight in your head just like you're making up a quality dev team.

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It appears that ToS just magically poofed to Thin Air from the equation in such cases ;) Oh nooo whatever I’m gonna do!??? I just dropped my uhh… DoT for 7s!! Oh no people will bring that up :(

Smh the Presence of Mind is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It appears that ToS just magically poofed to Thin Air from the equation in such cases ;) Oh nooo whatever I’m gonna do!??? I just dropped my uhh… DoT for 7s!! Oh no people will bring that up :(

Smh the Presence of Mind is beyond me.

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people can have such a temperance ;)

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Ah once again the classic putting words in people mouth. Never had I said the viewpoint people have in here is meaningless. I said I believe they don't represent the majority of feedback presented to Square. I have already indicated the fallacy of making the statement that there is 0 vocality about tanks being too squishy so I don't need to go over it again.

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Im not saying you said anything, i am addressing tangential implications. Where in my post did i say you said any of those things? Id appreciate if you dont do the classic putring words in my mouth.

Semantic waste of time aside,

Where does the majority of feedback occur? It seems to be the forums.
So where is all this majority feedback about tanks being squishy? I provide evidence of forum posts and news outlets and influencers, and you provide nothing but assumptions that there must be more feedback to the contrary elsewhere.

Besides, tanks arent actually being made tankier. They are only being proportionally increased according to the higher numbers of new content above level 90. Like glare or medica 2 potency increases which also only occur after level 90. These dont increase effective damage or healing output, they just scale with the new levels and enemies having higher numbers too.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

Another self quote moment

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ummmmmmmmmmm...... because of 21 jobs in the game there are only 4 healers. Guess what, tank queues are super short also in normal content....

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

ummmmmmmmmmm...... because of 21 jobs in the game there are only 4 healers. Guess, tank queues are super short also in normal content....

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they are longer then healers but are shorter then dps.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

No, I don't care if it has double DOTs or not. I've played other jobs, such as bard who has double dots, and I was thrilled the day they added the magic button that refreshed BOTH DOTs simultaneously because god forbid I get caught even in casual content by try hards that would call someone out for letting a DOT fall off even for .5secs.... so yeah, i'm glad i don't have to manage two DOTs... it was annoying on bard before they added the skill that refreshed both, it was annoying on scholar back in the day, it was annoying on Summoner back in the day. I even healed back when stance dancing was a thing, also highly annoying. I've been through all the ways healers have changed and the current way they play, both shields and pure heals is a direct result of feedback the devs received over the years and that's what the majority of strikers seem to overlook. Healing got so hard that people wouldn't TOUCH the job. They made it easier, then there was still a large chunk that said "I don't want to dps I want to heal" they took away all but the bare minimum and now a small portion of the player base wants to reverse course on that. I'm at the point where I'm convinced there will never be a happy side in this, but at the end of the day the Devs do have more data about things than anyone knows and there is clearly a reason why they are sticking to the current healer design.

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I have the "i don't want to DPS i want to HEAL" mindset so if i'm being honest, i don't want more DPS buttons, i want to be able to fully use my HEALING KIT because content requires me to. I've lost count of how many times i finished content without touching my strongest max lv healing ability, it's quite frustrating to receive such cool CDs only to not use them because you simply don't need them.
However, if dealing damage is how healers are supposed to work in this game, than at least let's make it fun, repeating 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-2 doesn't feel like fun and engaging gameplay.
And if it is supposed to be like this so people can focus on healing, than give people opportunity to heal.

Also as a ARR player, i don't remember people asking SE to create the duality "pure/shield healer" but anyway it must be just me....

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Originally Posted by Kozmakis

You fell in a common pitfall of making assumptions, unfortunately. The fact that people don't read/post on forums doesn't automatically mean they do not agree or feel the same way. Otherwise, what you are saying is sensible.

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Ah, there must be a misunderstanding. I'm not assuming that the only people who share these viewpoints are those that appear in this forum. That would be mathematically impossible. I'm saying that the threads seen here can't be used as a representative to indicate the audience as a whole, because they represent too small of a numerical value to reflect the majority of the audience. Hence, the topics seen here express a very small minority of the gaming audience as a whole. AKA, there is nowhere near enough traffic in this thread to state the feelings expressed here represent how the majority feel within the gaming bloc.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

Don't bother Kira, those striking are absolutely 10000% convinced their views are the majority view of the player base that plays heals that they certainly don't listen when healer mains like myself say otherwise. They also seem to think that the echo chamber that is the overall dumpster fire of these forums represents the whole sum total majority view of the playerbase when MOST players never step foot in here and it only tends to be the loudest complainers that post feedback.

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I dont think most people agree with the healer strike in thinking that healer role is boring and unnecessary. I actually think that most people have no idea and have never really thought about it, dont care or just play something else.

But i do think that everyone would benefit from some proposed changes to healers and game content as it relates to healers. And that this would help the game's quality and popularity as a whole, and thus i prove the game's longevity as well.

I dont think i myself ever once said i think most people agree with the healer strike.

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

im all for healers getting more rotation and having fun, but i am not going back to HW where 1 out of every 10 healers even knew how to play, or cared enough to try, and every dungeon/trial was a 2 hour long catastrophe..

i just dont get a lot of the points being made as its all a hyperbole of we deserve everything and you get nothing, and if thats the case ill just go back to ignoring yalls petty strike.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

im all for healers getting more rotation and having fun, but i am not going back to HW where 1 out of every 10 healers even knew how to play, or cared enough to try, and every dungeon/trial was a 2 hour long catastrophe..

i just dont get a lot of the points being made as its all a hyperbole of we deserve everything and you get nothing, and if thats the case ill just go back to ignoring yalls petty strike.

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I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like the general consensus is "GIVE US SOMETHING TO DO!" whether that's a more engaging DPS rotation, or encounter designs that actually make us use our healing toolkit, either approach would make all the healers suck so much less than they currently do.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

im all for healers getting more rotation and having fun, but i am not going back to HW where 1 out of every 10 healers even knew how to play, or cared enough to try, and every dungeon/trial was a 2 hour long catastrophe..

i just dont get a lot of the points being made as its all a hyperbole of we deserve everything and you get nothing, and if thats the case ill just go back to ignoring yalls petty strike.

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Most of the healer strike is focused on piss baby content like dungeons, because they don't do hard modes and criterion had low engagement , most dungeons end up as just msq obligations as asscesible to the most amount of people
Uncharitably, most content in the game is built for bottom of the barrel players.

warriors kit is outrageous for dungeons and why no healer runs are possible. but much less important or impactful is life steal in single target content, holmgang is a bigger issue there. Drk actually needs a lot of babying in dungeons but single target fights it's def cool downs are very very nice, just as examples

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

im all for healers getting more rotation and having fun, but i am not going back to HW where 1 out of every 10 healers even knew how to play, or cared enough to try, and every dungeon/trial was a 2 hour long catastrophe..

i just dont get a lot of the points being made as its all a hyperbole of we deserve everything and you get nothing, and if thats the case ill just go back to ignoring yalls petty strike.

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Healers are not asking to parse above actual DPS.

Since we also asked for more healing, we want to spend overall less than 90% of our time DPSing as we do now.

But since we are still going to DPS a good portion of our time, we want that time to be more interesting.

Healers DPSing also doesn't remove DPS classes enjoying the main function of their goal - DPS. DPS group healing for 500 potency does remove our primary function in some situations nearly entirely.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

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I think everyone would be fine with that, IF we actually had to use heals for most of the encounters. As Isala said, I think most ppl, me included just want SOMETHING! I don't personally care if its more dps options or harder healing requirements.

I'm more in the dps toolkit camp, simply because its just a more realistic option with the way fight design works in this game.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Ah, there must be a misunderstanding. I'm not assuming that the only people who share these viewpoints are those that appear in this forum. That would be mathematically impossible. I'm saying that the threads seen here can't be used as a representative to indicate the audience as a whole, because they represent too small of a numerical value to reflect the majority of the audience. Hence, the topics seen here express a very small minority of the gaming audience as a whole. AKA, there is nowhere near enough traffic in this thread to state the feelings expressed here represent how the majority feel within the gaming bloc.

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as i said, if this was just a small vocal minority and didn't represented healers at all it would not have evolved to so many pages and talked in other places.

while in terms of what truly need to be done isn't solid, the truth is when we talk about about majority its important to remember its the healer community aka those that main healer and play mostly healer in different content dungeons and beyond and if it was something none had agreed on, others wouldn't have bothered to bring it even up.

no one know what kind of changes the majority wants for healers but what is certain the majority WANTS CHANGES or at least to be acknowledged that healers are in bad spot especially after countless times healers negligence appeared in expansions.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

im all for healers getting more rotation and having fun, but i am not going back to HW where 1 out of every 10 healers even knew how to play, or cared enough to try, and every dungeon/trial was a 2 hour long catastrophe..

i just dont get a lot of the points being made as its all a hyperbole of we deserve everything and you get nothing, and if thats the case ill just go back to ignoring yalls petty strike.

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No, its more just about outliers like bloodwhetting and perhaps red mage being able to raise 4 or so times in a row with dualcast. I like other classes having more to offer than just dps, and self reliance is important too for solo instances and overworld stuff like fates.
The issue is more just that there should be enough damage output to warrant the use of all the heal bloat, and theres never anything to cleanse anymore. Mana management is gone, and so is aggro management and these were all interactive for healer gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

so, is there equality in this strike? i see that healers want better dps tool kits, that i can agree with, but, are healers actively asking for others to have less heal toolkit? i feel that is very hypocritical, why do heals get to be best of all worlds in this idealistic scenario, if you want non role abilities removed from others wouldn't you too be loosing your precious dps toolkit?

im all for healers getting more rotation and having fun, but i am not going back to HW where 1 out of every 10 healers even knew how to play, or cared enough to try, and every dungeon/trial was a 2 hour long catastrophe..

i just dont get a lot of the points being made as its all a hyperbole of we deserve everything and you get nothing, and if thats the case ill just go back to ignoring yalls petty strike.

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I think its just a mix of issues lol:

Healing DPS "rotation" is bland and repetitive (1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-2) but it was turned into this because healers should focus more on healing than DPS, however, content doesn't seem to require much healing, so healers have a lot of "spare time" to DPS and the only thing they can do is to repeat "1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-2".
Thanks to that they want more DPS tools or at least a reworked DPS rotation so it doesn't feel as boring and repetitive.

On top of that other jobs are getting more healing/sustain tools and that makes healers need to heal even less which exacerbates the problem.
It's basically a snowball

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Ah, there must be a misunderstanding. I'm not assuming that the only people who share these viewpoints are those that appear in this forum. That would be mathematically impossible. I'm saying that the threads seen here can't be used as a representative to indicate the audience as a whole, because they represent too small of a numerical value to reflect the majority of the audience. Hence, the topics seen here express a very small minority of the gaming audience as a whole. AKA, there is nowhere near enough traffic in this thread to state the feelings expressed here represent how the majority feel within the gaming bloc.

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Thanks for clarifying, I believe that is a fair assumption and agree with you! I can only speak for myself - I support what I believe to be right, even if I am the only one doing it, so numbers don't matter to me. If we are just a small portion, then queues will not be affected, so no need for the drama at all. I will make my decision to change roles - not out of spite, but to have fun playing :)

I would like to take this moment to thank all the new healers who are stepping up to fill the queues since many in this thread will not be party healing in DawnTrail.

it is a big responsibility and commitment, and since I, and others will be maining a DPS role, thank you for making our queues shorter compared to what they would be with 2 new DPS classes.

thank you for your efforts and joining the ranks of healers. have fun ^^

They removed RNG from AST which could have made it somewhat more interesting, but it's CDs are all over the goddamn place... Earthly Star and Astral Draw to Lord of Crowns are on a 60s CD... Macrocosmos is on a 3 minute CD (at least on the Job Guide)... And their new attack Oracle is tied to Divination which is on a 2 minute CD.

And Astrodyne was completely removed as it would have been fixed the new Astral Draw.



With how much they're neglecting healers, I am partially thinking of just switching to maining BRD... Or maybe WAR since it's a better designed Healer than any of the actual Healers.

After going through most of JPs take theyre fairly content with things, think the only major if'd thing is macrocosmos not being neutral. Their biggest counter to healerstrike complaints is theyre happy with healers in savage and beyond content that they dont really see/want any major healer changes that could end up shifting the current difficulty and balance of healing there.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

The purpose of the claim was to debuke the idea that somehow this thread being over 500 pages must somehow represent a large portion of the the gaming demographic.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

Judging by this thread alone (which again was also the parameters used to support a larger viewpoint due to it's 500 page length), we have 0.001% of the audience supporting said ideology.

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And again you're making the same mistake. People not posting in the forums doesn't prove they do or don't support any ideology. You accuse people supporting the strike of making the exact same "mistake" you yourself keep making (just the other way around), again and again: making assumptions about the wider opinions of FF players based on what goes on in the forums. Even after it was pointed out to you. And while people supporting the strike at least have a "it's a bigger thread than most others", you have nothing at all that ties numbers of forum posts to numbers of FF players.

I would have accepted either "I don't think you can extrapolate what goes on in the forum to the wider playerbase" or "I think you can make assumptions about the wider playerbase based on what goes on in the forums". There are things to be said for both, that is why I never got into arguments about the forums being representative or not before. But attacking the strike over it, and then doing the same thing in the same post, is just silly. And doubling down on it, after it was pointed out, is worse.

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Originally Posted by KitiaraIornsight

No, I don't care if it has double DOTs or not. I've played other jobs, such as bard who has double dots, and I was thrilled the day they added the magic button that refreshed BOTH DOTs simultaneously because god forbid I get caught even in casual content by try hards that would call someone out for letting a DOT fall off even for .5secs.... so yeah, i'm glad i don't have to manage two DOTs... it was annoying on bard before they added the skill that refreshed both, it was annoying on scholar back in the day, it was annoying on Summoner back in the day. I even healed back when stance dancing was a thing, also highly annoying. I've been through all the ways healers have changed and the current way they play, both shields and pure heals is a direct result of feedback the devs received over the years and that's what the majority of strikers seem to overlook. Healing got so hard that people wouldn't TOUCH the job. They made it easier, then there was still a large chunk that said "I don't want to dps I want to heal" they took away all but the bare minimum and now a small portion of the player base wants to reverse course on that. I'm at the point where I'm convinced there will never be a happy side in this, but at the end of the day the Devs do have more data about things than anyone knows and there is clearly a reason why they are sticking to the current healer design.

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I mean no offence in this, but that just sounds like a you problem more than anything. You just seem to not enjoy the DoT gameplay. And yet keep picking up Jobs that do have DoTs and demand for their removal. Why don't you play something without any dots?
For BRD, I never use the refresh both DoTs buttons, I just keep it up. The DoT gameplay is fun for me so I gravitate toward it. You just sound bitter TBH. Also in my entire 6 years of playing this game (mostly on DoT jobs), I was never called out by tryhards or anyone for that matter for dropping a DoT.

My question is: We have more than 20 jobs in this game, why can't they all be distinct from each other so they attract a certain type of player? I love DoTs you hate them, there should be 1 job in the roster for the both of us! Even in the healing department, where we have 4 healers. I agree SGE having multiple DoTs is bad because it doesn't make sense from a job fantasy, however, SCH having multiple Dots makes perfect sense! In a perfect world, we would both have our niche and enjoy it. Healers should be fun in all content, not just the 1%. And that goes for all the jobs! You can give some same-y abilities for mechanics, but diversify the rest of the kit!

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Originally Posted by S4M4EL

i find it funny when people try to diminish forum feedback as if it shouldn't be considered because "it isn't the majority of the player-base"
Then why have forums in the first place?
People are being vocal about healers since HW and in every expansion the same issues become even more apparent.

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Eh? The forums are here for people to talk about whatever they wish to talk about regarding FFXIV. That's the purpose of the forums. But forums aren't given the amount of weight some people assume for a slew of reasons.

Companies/Corporations know that people, especially in western society, are a lot more likely to visit forums to spew something negative than to talk about something positive. People who are enjoying the game are going to spend less time on here and more time playing the actual game. Hell the only reason why I'm here now is because the world's are or maintenance, otherwise I'd be playing. So with that in mind, feedback in forums are going to be evaluated under a very scrutinized lense due to the negative slant it leans towards.

Plus you have the fact that people who like the current state of certain aspects aren't going to regularly visit the forums to champion that current state, they're just going to continue to enjoy current state. It's more along the lines of "I'm enjoying what I'm doing so I'm fine, so as long as those aspects aren't taken away, I'll continue to participate." Again, to use myself for example. One of the criticism presented was a request for higher difficulty, I enjoy the current difficulty, and to be frank I still find certain things a bit too challenging for my taste. So I completely disagree with that notion. Now had Square decided to do a 180 and "increase the threat level.", then I'd be here a lot more expressing my concerns regarding a difficulty spike until the game became unenjoyable for me and I'd quit.

Ultimately people are going to feel how they want to feel. Many in this thread feel tank mitigation should be reduced and the game should be harder, I feel tank mitigation is just fine and the game should actually be a bit easier. But as long as forums represent a miniscule scale of the targeted audience, forum feedback would be weighed in regards to that percentage, especially if it's just reflecting a particular demographic such as English speakers vs Japanese speakers.