Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by Avraym

460 gear is really powerful considering how easily its handed to you.

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Why does that matter?

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Originally Posted by Avraym

I disagree. You can easily get Rokan's Goetia full set in a day - even in 5.0... that sure didn't feel like it was padding out content.

Phantasmagoria tomes are a different story with the cap and smaller gains - but it still feels lacklustre and too easy to obtain (lets remember that a lot of 470 gear BiS is Phantasmagoria).

I'd prefer if tomes were rewarded for greater achievements, rather than capped and hidden behind unchallenging content in an attempt to drag things out by nature.

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Things to note here, though:

1.) Goetia wasn't really a cap set as much as a starter set. Anybody who was even remotely serious about Savage raiding had at least 6 pieces above what Goetia gives before Savage even dropped (that'd be 4 accessories from Innocence, one weapon from Titania, and at least one piece from Eden normal). Others even at the midcore level had more still (example: I was ilvl 450 before entering Savage the first time [Goetia is 440 {technically 439 b/c you can't have two 440 rings}]). (Mind you, I'm *not* a hardcore raider [did that back in WoW during Wrath, and did not enjoy it]...but I'm also not going to be the one holding my group back if I can help it.)

2.) Several pieces of BiS aren't Phantasmagoria (for me personally, 7 pieces are Edengrace).

3.) Until patch 5.1 drops, all 470 gear requires savage raids, even phantasmagoria pieces (which are only 460 without the upgrade pieces from savage). That is by definition greater rewards for greater achievements.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

It's a false rumor you're being punished for not being in a static. You can win all of the gear in a single run if you're lucky enough, just like everyone else.

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The chances of winning "all of the gear" is extremely remote and unrealistic. You're actually LESS likely to win anything with the current system giving you a 1/8 1/8 1/8 chance.

If i have to explain to you why its much easier and faster to gear with a static than pugs with the current system, I know i'm already wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Savage gear is also behind a lockout - a system which punishes you for not doing it with a static by the way.

I've managed to pug most of it each week and still haven't gotten a single drop.

Another system I think needs some refining.

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I'd actually argue the current system favors pugs over statics, tbh...but that's probably because I'm a healer that knows most static groups, knowing that the current system means all gear is good for all roles....can now favor DPS (who are more likely to lead to faster clears and skipped mechanics) over myself (whereas my DPS, even if I somehow parse 100th percentile...is quite frankly less than a gray parse from any DPS). By comparison, PUGs allow me to roll (and win) gear without waiting for at least 4/8 (and realistically 6/8) people to already have that slot covered. (Example: we didn't have static loot rules due to a PUG last week, and I now have a piece of gear I wouldn't have for at least another month otherwise.)

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Originally Posted by Avraym

You make it sound like Savage is difficult.

460 gear is really powerful considering how easily its handed to you.

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Its not that strong for what they're used for, you can get all the gear you want if you don't have the skill/motivation to face the harder challenge (wich can be done mostly with i350 pentameld anyway) they're just a comfort goal like any other.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Things to note here, though:

1.) Goetia wasn't really a cap set as much as a starter set. Anybody who was even remotely serious about Savage raiding had at least 6 pieces above what Goetia gives before Savage even dropped (that'd be 4 accessories from Innocence, one weapon from Titania, and at least one piece from Eden normal). Others even at the midcore level had more still (example: I was ilvl 450 before entering Savage the first time [Goetia is 440 {technically 439 b/c you can't have two 440 rings}]). (Mind you, I'm *not* a hardcore raider [did that back in WoW during Wrath, and did not enjoy it]...but I'm also not going to be the one holding my group back if I can help it.)

2.) Several pieces of BiS aren't Phantasmagoria (for me personally, 7 pieces are Edengrace).

3.) Until patch 5.1 drops, all 470 gear requires savage raids, even phantasmagoria pieces (which are only 460 without the upgrade pieces from savage). That is by definition greater rewards for greater achievements.

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You don't need to be hardcore to have had Titania Weapon, Innocence Drops and Geotia before Savage drops. I'm not a hardcore raider or anything, but I well and truly had BiS pre savage. I think your standards are a bit low given how friendly Extremes are to pick up and play through.

I didn't say ALL, i just said a LOT. In SMN/RDM case, 6 to be exact. Thats almost 50% of your equipment.

I do like how they require Eden Savage to reach their full potential however.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

You don't need to be hardcore to have had Titania Weapon, Innocence Drops and Geotia before Savage drops. I'm not a hardcore raider or anything, but I well and truly had BiS pre savage. I think your standards are a bit low given how friendly Extremes are to pick up and play through.

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I was saying "anybody remotely serious" had this...and you're proving my point. Like me, you're also not a hardcore raider, but also had BiS pre-savage. That was literally my point...it was that easy, and Goetia was more a starting point than anything.

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I didn't say ALL, i just said a LOT. In SMN/RDM case, 6 to be exact. Thats almost 50% of your equipment.

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That's where requiring savage to upgrade it comes into play. It's also a good thing that it's not entirely directly from Savage drops, or certain players (read: healers like me) would barely be getting our BiS when alliance raids came out (if we were lucky). This is especially true with the new coffer system (that means all healer/tank pieces are also DPS pieces too).

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I do like how they require Eden Savage to reach their full potential however.

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And been this way literally as long as I can remember. It was this way all throughout Stormblood, I believe it was this way during HW (didn't play, can't confirm myself), and it was (albeit in a different way) this way in ARR as well (with tomestone gear at lv70 when I played then, AR gear [we had one alliance raid, LotA] at 80, and Bahamut gear at 90). SE's been good about this formula, I trust them to continue with it.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

The chances of winning "all of the gear" is extremely remote and unrealistic. You're actually LESS likely to win anything with the current system giving you a 1/8 1/8 1/8 chance.

If i have to explain to you why its much easier and faster to gear with a static than pugs with the current system, I know i'm already wasting my time.

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that depends if the static is prioritizing people with their BiS gear before others, like mine is. DPS are getting their drops first, then tanks/heals. The other static in my FC isnt doing this and letting everyone free roll on everything. its just a different preference.

if you're referring to it being "easier and faster to gear" in statics just bc its the same people each time, hence faster clears and more loot....well yeah, that goes w/o saying. but the actual drop rate of the gear overall favors the player more now than it did before. people already mathed it out.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

I was saying "anybody remotely serious" had this...and you're proving my point. Like me, you're also not a hardcore raider, but also had BiS pre-savage. That was literally my point...it was that easy, and Goetia was more a starting point than anything.



That's where requiring savage to upgrade it comes into play. It's also a good thing that it's not entirely directly from Savage drops, or certain players (read: healers like me) would barely be getting our BiS when alliance raids came out (if we were lucky). This is especially true with the new coffer system (that means all healer/tank pieces are also DPS pieces too).



And been this way literally as long as I can remember. It was this way all throughout Stormblood, I believe it was this way during HW (didn't play, can't confirm myself), and it was (albeit in a different way) this way in ARR as well (with tomestone gear at lv70 when I played then, AR gear [we had one alliance raid, LotA] at 80, and Bahamut gear at 90). SE's been good about this formula, I trust them to continue with it.

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Tome upgrade items in raids have been a thing since 2nd coil. The only set that wasn't upgradeable was the mythology gear, which had an equal ilvl of i90 to the binding coil gear.

Every tome set after that required drops from Savage raids (or the only raids in the case of coil)

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Originally Posted by Avraym

The chances of winning "all of the gear" is extremely remote and unrealistic. You're actually LESS likely to win anything with the current system giving you a 1/8 1/8 1/8 chance.

If i have to explain to you why its much easier and faster to gear with a static than pugs with the current system, I know i'm already wasting my time.

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Let's say I wanted a tank ring from Alphascape, then. There's a 1/2 chance in getting it if it drops since you're rolling against another tank. Easy. Two chests drop, though, with a chance to drop any ring from any type, and let's assume that a ring will definitely drop, so 1/5. Your chances are then 1/10 to get a ring whatsoever, which are already worse odds than trying to go 1/8 for your ring in Edengate. Yoshida brought this up as well.