The Monk Temple

any rotation with impulse drive? i kinda wanna replace true strike 5% crit chanse is not good at all

I would like to a see a full rotation with fracture, touch of death and demolish ... with darklight gear.

At the moment I use
start: Perfect Balance, SP, SP, SP, DK, TS, ToD
normal rotation: BS, True, Demolish, Fracture, BS, TS, SP, DK, TS, SP << repeat and refresh ToD if necessary

But it seems this rotation is not good enough to have the dps for titan.

i dont use ToD, only on bosses that stands still. Demolish and Fracture at the same time and i refresh at same time if its gone. With full GL 3 and no boost buffs such as Blood for Blood or IR demolish and Frature ticks for about 90-100+ dmg besides that you crit for 350-500+ with normal attacks IR helps a alot, in that time i dont use Dots at all becouse you can perform something like snap wich crits for 500 dmg.

I have 1 piece (pants lvl 60) wich i dont wanna replace with DL becouse i will lose 24 crit but gain 4 str and about 150 more HP and also defense. My legs are lvl 90 wich gives me crit and speed, rest is full DL set. Weapon is Relic.

Maybe i´m wrong about not using dots while blood for blood or IR but i feel like dots are not your main sorce of your DPS its just a boost for long fights its ticks 1 time in 3 seconds but your AA with 3 GL performs every second. So i think Monk needs crit gear wich now is not realy an option.

So you use Demolish and Fracture together (same like me) but only if you have no Blood for Blood or IR active. Actually I use Blood for Blood togehther with Demolish and IR together with Fracture (macro).

Is there a basic rotation u are using? Do u refresh Demolish and Fracture instantly after they disappeared or do u refresh the dots at the end of your basic rotation?

I hate it not having an "perfect rotation" or spreadsheet like in the other mmo I played a few years.

If you're confused about stat prioritazation for MNKs, here it is:

STR > ACC > DTR > Crit Hit > A. Speed > Acc (after cap)

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Originally Posted by roflcaust

If you're confused about stat prioritazation for MNKs, here it is:

STR > ACC > DTR > Crit Hit > A. Speed > Acc (after cap)

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First usefull post in this thread x)

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Originally Posted by Bolde

So you use Demolish and Fracture together (same like me) but only if you have no Blood for Blood or IR active. Actually I use Blood for Blood togehther with Demolish and IR together with Fracture (macro).

Is there a basic rotation u are using? Do u refresh Demolish and Fracture instantly after they disappeared or do u refresh the dots at the end of your basic rotation?

I hate it not having an "perfect rotation" or spreadsheet like in the other mmo I played a few years.

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On trash mobs you can probably keep dots in optimal alignment(though it doesn't really matter then), but unless you have great OCD syndrome, I doubt boss fights will be as easy, considering the way dots are show in the UI.

Trying to focus on when your dot expiration with 15 other symbols on the boss, while running around dodging, and other mechanics, is a fruitless effort. Sure your own personal dots are green, but if you gotta time to focus on that, you probably aren't focusing on many many more important things.

Almost all mnks just "wing it" when things come down to that. At the last phase of a boss fight, there just isn't enough idle time to be going "my demolish is expiring in 5 seconds"

A perfect rotation only belongs on a training dummy. Reality is, just experience and a slow ramp up of optimization.

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

Maybe i´m wrong about not using dots while blood for blood or IR but i feel like dots are not your main sorce of your DPS its just a boost for long fights its ticks 1 time in 3 seconds but your AA with 3 GL performs every second. So i think Monk needs crit gear wich now is not realy an option.

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DoTs are your highest potency attack that benefit from those cooldowns after they are gone, you certainly want to use them while the buffs are active.

a simple rotation would be standing allways on the side of the boss/trash and going behind only for Bootshine.

Dragon Kick - Twin - Snap (gl1) Dragon - Twin - Snap (gl2) Boot - Twin - Demolish (gl3) - Fracture.

after that its just 1)Dragon - Twin- Snap 2)Boot - Twin - Snap 3)Dragon - Twin - Demolish - Fracture.

its simple and you will be able do everything right you will have 10% more dmg buff all the time, D.Kick debuff and 2 dots up all the time. You can add then boosts to it like BfB or IR, also use steel and howling fisrt when its ready

Hey, its easy to keep Demolish and Fracture up cause they have the same durationbut whats up with Touch of Death? I tested some rotations and one of them includes all 3 dots. The TP drain was massive and after lot of minutes my tp reaches 0.

Dont think its recommend to hold all 3 dots up, sure its a slight DPS improvement but if you drain your tp so fast to 0 you are not able to deal max damage... annoying that these dots are so expensive in action cost.

Want to know if you really hold up all 3 dots on the boss :()

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

a simple rotation would be standing allways on the side of the boss/trash and going behind only for Bootshine.

Dragon Kick - Twin - Snap (gl1) Dragon - Twin - Snap (gl2) Boot - Twin - Demolish (gl3) - Fracture.

after that its just 1)Dragon - Twin- Snap 2)Boot - Twin - Snap 3)Dragon - Twin - Demolish - Fracture.

its simple and you will be able do everything right you will have 10% more dmg buff all the time, D.Kick debuff and 2 dots up all the time. You can add then boosts to it like BfB or IR, also use steel and howling fisrt when its ready

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you are not using true strike at all?only twin snake?true strike from the back hit pretty hard but...twin snake buff seem to not last long enought and get removed 1 atk before you can reaply it (unless you have hight s speed mabey but im not 50/geared yet).so im wondering if its more effective to just use twinsnake and dont use true strike anymore?

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Originally Posted by Vejj

Want to know if you really hold up all 3 dots on the boss :()

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TP exhaustion tends to happen when the fight plods along due to dead DPS or other issues. Invigorate is enough to keep you going for most fights; an all-out attack on a training dummy is a different story.

There are situations in endgame that will leave you unable to attack anything, so your TP will recuperate in this downtime. All the more reason to use DoTs: you'll continue to deal damage to the boss while you are running for cover or chasing down adds.

My rotation, as of late while running Amdapoor Keep, is to open with:
Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish (GL1)
Dragon Kick > True Strike > Snap Punch (GL2)
Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish (GL3)

Here is where my rotation might seem weird. You will lose a little bit of Dragon Kick, but after my third line...
Impulse Drive > Impulse Drive > Impulse Drive
Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Demolish (alternate with Snap Punch) > Impulse Drive > Impulse Drive > Impulse Drive

This is all done on a 2.07 GCD, with mostly AF gear, ilv45+ accessories, Ifrit weapon, and the DL belt. I wouldn't say I have insane DPS, and I definitely don't burst (don't have Blood For Blood yet), but this is a fairly solid, simple rotation that is good enough for trash. On bosses, I would switch 2 of my Impulse Drives for Fracture and Touch of Death very other rotation or so, and then for Demon Wall, I just cry because I can't hit it from behind.

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Originally Posted by JETgroovy

My rotation, as of late while running Amdapoor Keep, is to open with:
Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish (GL1)
Dragon Kick > True Strike > Snap Punch (GL2)
Bootshine > Twin Snakes > Demolish (GL3)

...

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You should always try to start with Dragon Kick.

You won't crit with Bootshine without Opo Opo Form, so Dragon Kick is definitely superior as opener.

Semantics aside about the (3?) potency difference of 2x Twin Snakes vs. 1 Twin Snakes/1 True Strike. Why do people put DK and True Strike together, and then again with Bootshine and Twin Snake? It just seems like a lot of extra movement.

Why not:
DK>Twin>SP/Demo
BS>TS>SP

Just seems so much easier to group the skills that require the same position together, and then use skills that don't require any position(Demo) as a transition skill between them when using them?

Also, I'd like some tips on my rotation:

DK -> Twin -> Demo
BS -> TS -> SP -> Fracture
DK -> Twin -> Demo -> ToD
BS -> TS -> SP -> Fracture

and repeat.

Howling Fist / Steel Peak are scattered around in there and are used on CD, unless a fight mechanic prevents me from using Steel Peak.
Internal Release and BfB are used on CD unless I'm about to disconnect.
Demo and Fracture get clipped sub 3 seconds, so there's at least 1 tick not going off.
I have full DL(sans belt/earring), and relic(which I'll +1 once I get the myth on Monday).

I'm pulling ~220 on the level 50 dummies out in Whitebrim(not sure if that makes a difference) at 3 minutes, that's when I run out of TP after having used Invigorate once, and PB is just coming back up after using it at the start of the fight. I'm hoping that I can squeeze out some more DPS. :cool:

Character limit is silly. :(

EDIT:

Curious on Peltast Belt and Earring vs. their DL counterparts - is DL actually better than they are? It has more STR, but both Peltast pieces have 2 sub stats. At what point does Det + Skill Speed outweigh 1 point of STR?

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Originally Posted by -Snow

You should always try to start with Dragon Kick.

You won't crit with Bootshine without Opo Opo Form, so Dragon Kick is definitely superior as opener.

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Didn't pick up on that, thanks. Not that a 20 potency difference without our buffs will make much of a difference, I see where you're coming from =P. As for positioning, we're so boned as is on positioning that I usually just sit at the back of the enemy until I have to move.

True strike for end game is not good its like playing with your luck. 5% crit chanse is a joke i tested it and almost no crits at all, sure its stronger as twin but you will lose the 10% dmg boost. you can add true stike if you dont like fracture but you will lose the dot boost. combined with IR its 35% crit chanse + your gear, that might be good using it for 15 seconds.

Theoretically true strike can produce, but realistically, twin wins out. You are applying everything 100% uptime from auto attack to off gcd attacks to shoulder tackle, etc.

In a real boss fight, you will loose your buffs, the more you over lap them, the less chance of losing it.

Let's put it this way, do you want some who:
does 100% out put on inital-phase 70% output on mid-phase 30% output on end-phase
or
does 70% out put on inital-phase 70% output on mid-phase 60% output on end-phase

100% of the time I would pick the latter. Parsers can go up the rear for all I care, because parties aren't worry about who does the most damage, it's who wins the fight, and all that matters is the last stretch of the battle.

I would recommend at 50 just not using Bootshine and True Strike all together. You have way more things to worry about and you can keep buffs up and pay attention to greased lightning stacks much easier if you just do Dragon, Twin, Demolish/Snap which can all be done from the side.

Sure you may do a little less, but all your attack buffs will be up 100% of the time, giving you time to focus on the more crucial parts of the fights and keeping your greased lightning stacks.

Though if you want to go all out that's fine also. I just don't see it being that worth it.

Bootshine + True strike when you can hit from the back
Dragon kick + Twin snake when you can hit from flank
They are options so that monk can reposition themselves during fight while keep hitting. I can see how you have to move and have to use different options.
I would avoid over-complicate the rotation if necessary. Rotations should be flexible depend on situation. Maximum dmg rotation is good only when you know the fight really well and be confident of re-act to almost everything.
Just my opinion.
Btw, this is what I do when I am free to dps:
ToD ( I start with it if I know fight is gonna last more than 30s) -> DK -> Twin -> Demolition (GS1)-> Fracture-> Boot/Dk (depend of situation) -> True/Twin (same reason) -> Snap (GS2) -> DK/Boot ( If i need to re-apply debuff or re-position) -> Twin/Boot (Position/Buff duration) -> Demolition (GS 3). Form here I just play by ear: If there is room for more dot, i would re-apply, if not then i just do a regular combo with Snap.

I just got my Relic weapon today, and spent most of my runs in AK today trying to not rip hate from the tank... I'm a little excited about this new weapon of mine.

Anyway,
I've been following the rotation
DK->TS-> Demolish
DK->TS-> ToD -> Fracture
DK-> TS -> SP

I throw in a HF every now and then, but mostly stick to dps / stun emergencies.

Conversely this puts my survivability up, as I can kill monsters faster than they can kill me. :P

Im currently : DK>TS>Demolish/SP and ToD when applicable and throwing in either IDx2 or BS when I can, still on the fence about Fracture and whether it should replace ToD or have all 3 running. But what im doing seems to work so far.

I've been testing on dummies for awhile, and it may just be the parser not counting dot's correctly, but I do more dps just doing DK > TS > SP from the flank. If I interchange SP and refresh demolish when its down, I parse at 255 dps. If I only do DK > TS > SP from the flank only, with steel peak, and howling fist used during gcd cooldown, the maximum I've gotten with relic is 268 dps. Until there is a reliable parser to prove otherwise, I'm finding demolish and other dots for MNK worthless.

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Originally Posted by DamienStrife

I've been testing on dummies for awhile, and it may just be the parser not counting dot's correctly, but I do more dps just doing DK > TS > SP from the flank. If I interchange SP and refresh demolish when its down, I parse at 255 dps. If I only do DK > TS > SP from the flank only, with steel peak, and howling fist used during gcd cooldown, the maximum I've gotten with relic is 268 dps. Until there is a reliable parser to prove otherwise, I'm finding demolish and other dots for MNK worthless.

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There's a more basic reason though.

Most melees are on stun duty, and I wouldn't even dare do anything but dk-twin-snap (demolish maybe when safe), and feint (every so often to keep it from resisting) to make sure that stun isn't late.

It's just much easier to do you job when you only need to weave in and out of flanks, and have your fastest animations possible.

Today I have tried several rotations but at the end it seems that a simple DK - Twin - SP (without Dots or any other skills) rotation deals the most dps. Do not know why ... next week I will adopt an ape to hit 1 2 3 1 2 3 etc.

you guys know u cant start with DK right? it doesn't give the mob the DEBUFF lolol

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Originally Posted by DerICh

you guys know u cant start with DK right? it doesn't give the mob the DEBUFF lolol

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Yea it doesn't, but the difference is that it have 150 power on the flank, while bootshine is 130 power, is just about that 20 power more

can some one please tell me why bards are doing same but faster dmg as monks with 3 gl up? also they can use blood for blood and IR wich ives them 500-600 crits and 300 aa crits also instant dots wich are way higher then that from monks

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Originally Posted by DamienStrife

I've been testing on dummies for awhile, and it may just be the parser not counting dot's correctly, but I do more dps just doing DK > TS > SP from the flank. If I interchange SP and refresh demolish when its down, I parse at 255 dps. If I only do DK > TS > SP from the flank only, with steel peak, and howling fist used during gcd cooldown, the maximum I've gotten with relic is 268 dps. Until there is a reliable parser to prove otherwise, I'm finding demolish and other dots for MNK worthless.

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I don't see how not using dots yields higher dps. A fully ticked Demolish or ToD or Fracture has higher potency than a SP by over 20%. The math just doesn't add up. The only conclusion is that the parsers are just parsing the dots erroneously.

depends on what your using it. trash is dead with other dps in about 20 seconds it would be better using BfB or IR for rotation burst without dots. while on targets with high HP dots can be realy good.

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Originally Posted by Odiato

Yea it doesn't, but the difference is that it have 150 power on the flank, while bootshine is 130 power, is just about that 20 power more

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You do know its autocrit from behind right?

you need Opo-Opo form for Bootshine to crit wich you dont have if you start your rotation

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Originally Posted by DerICh

You do know its autocrit from behind right?

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Even without the form bonus?

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Originally Posted by kataly

I don't see how not using dots yields higher dps. A fully ticked Demolish or ToD or Fracture has higher potency than a SP by over 20%. The math just doesn't add up. The only conclusion is that the parsers are just parsing the dots erroneously.

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You don't even need a parser to show that it makes no sense. Go test on a random mob and add up the dot ticks versus a snap punch (highest potency dd attack).

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Originally Posted by DerICh

You do know its autocrit from behind right?

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we'r talking about the start dude, u just start with DK instead of BS since it won't crit anyway.

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Originally Posted by Miridori

Even without the form bonus?

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You need to be in Opo-opo for Bootshine to be auto crit, just like you need to be on Opo-opo for DK to apply the debuff. People start with DK because it's 20 more potency from the flank than Bootshine.

edit: Is it really beneficial to not use either ToD or Fracture? Sure it's one less ability to track, but it should (theoretically) hurt your dps by at least a little..

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

You don't even need a parser to show that it makes no sense. Go test on a random mob and add up the dot ticks versus a snap punch (highest potency dd attack).

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I did that. I'm not 50, but the ratios shouldn't be *too* different.
Demolish did roughly 50% more damage than snap punch when both were at GL2.
SP = 123
Demolish = 185

It's the only one I felt like testing. I'm sure ToD does more. Not sure about Fracture. Might test later.

EDIT: Fracture hit in the 90's overall. Fairly low. I'll take it out until more serious theorycrafting happens and we can see where they stand for sure.

Isnt Fracture 100 potency upfront and 20 DoT over 18s? Theoretically, if all dots tick, the overall dmg is 220 potency while Demolish is 240 and Snap Punch is 180.
Did you include the upfront dmg on your calculation?

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Originally Posted by Miridori

Isnt Fracture 100 potency upfront and 20 DoT over 18s? Theoretically, if all dots tick, the overall dmg is 220 potency while Demolish is 240 and Snap Punch is 180.
Did you include the upfront dmg on your calculation?

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No, I didn't. I'll recheck. I didn't realize that, thanks.

So I keep hearing about monks using impulse drive in their rotation, but is that while also not taking fracture? Because if I optimally use both, it feels like I just tear through TP even if I use Invigorate.