I guess it's time

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

snip

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see the second post I made.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

yah it's what I mentioned in the other parts I'm content with keeping it as is but adding in more hybrid jobs like Bard. (I never played Bard but people say it's a hybrid job) I suppose proposing a what if scenario would be best life if it was like it from the start.

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What do you bring a BRD for when it comes to dungeons and raids? If you answered DPS, then you just defined it's role. Nearly every job has some form of utility that it's encouraged to have a diverse composition; you can't have anyone substitute what a DRG can bring for example.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

What do you bring a BRD for when it comes to dungeons and raids? If you answered DPS, then you just defined it's role. Nearly every job has some form of utility that it's encouraged to have a diverse composition; you can't have anyone substitute what a DRG can bring for example.

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I don't even play Bard, don't even know its actions. Just going off what people have told me when I ask "what does this thing the bard casts do?" and they say its a support ability. I don't even wanna argue about this. I know nothing about bard so I don't want to pretend I know what I'm talking about if it's not a hybrid class of support and dps then sorry for my ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

I don't even play Bard, don't even know its actions. Just going off what people have told me when I ask "what does this thing the bard casts do?" and they say its a support ability. I don't even wanna argue about this. I know nothing about bard so I don't want to pretend I know what I'm talking about.

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Well, your DRG has abilties like disembowel and battle illianity, while also having access to mantra. What do you feel those debuffs do? It not only improves your personal performance, but the party as well. BRD and MCH have full access to dps abilties as well, but rather than having something like crit buff, they have mana/tp regen which still helps the party. But you'd still be bringing those jobs to fill in the primary purpose of a dps, because that's what they are made to do.

You can just take a quick look at what abilities they gain as they level; Out of their 16+ skills, only 4 would truly be considered as something that effect people that isn't just themselves, and the first one isn't gained until level 30; the rest is dps skills. MCH doesn't get their regen until 42, and their damage reduction abilties like dismantle mirrors that of virus and storm's path. Likewise as BRD, you'd bring a MCH to fill in the role of a dps with the party composition in mind, much like how you'd bring in a warrior or DRG to fill in the role of tank or dps, but keeping in mind of what they bring to the table. That's sort of why a true-support job wouldn't work in the current deisgn, it'd start to compete with existing slots unless they redesign all instanced content to require larger groups and encounters with them in mind.

Didn't think of it that way actually. Guess the holy trinity is fine as in then since everything is playing the support role. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah

Speaking in FFXIV terms if we actually had a true relic in here it should include;

a) Killing the highest raid tier multiple times (x10).
b) Getting the drop (?? item) from the same turn with a very low drop rate.
c) Getting another drop (?? item) from a secondary end game content with the same difficulty level (highest tier) such dynamis.
d) Including high amount of gils in the process.
e) Pushing the exploration, open world contents; collecting items around the world in extremely dangerous areas (raid team required to get through them).
f) Getting highest tier crafters together (those few around if we had a decent crafting system) in order to craft the item itself and to pull overmelds.

Not even the first step should be reachable by casual players with the relic being the highest tier weapon in game raiders slowly gonna collect, step by step.

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So much this! I hate the way relic is handled in this game with passion! Relic should be the strongest weapon that only a few people of millions possess. Our current "relic" is "artifact" weapon at best.

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Originally Posted by Razard

Ok, the underlying questions to this support class nonsense. What can a support class provide that you can't just put on another role and be done with it?

Also, if their support is all they have, there's a balancing issue, if the support is less than 1 dps class then it will be a leper. If it does more, it's a requirement and needs to be entirely balanced around. If it's the same or equivalent, then it is pointless.

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if they define "support" as bard/mch/newjob" then itll be a low tier but decent dps. Then they just jack the raids to be like gordias anyway, and or nerf healers damage output because like tanks - "theyre not a D_S.!!!!" They could do it in tons of ways, not justifying that they should, just examples. Itd be incredibly difficult to carry through story as a job that relies other characters to deal its damage, you wouldnt get through story if it was

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

if they define "support" as bard/mch/newjob" then itll be a low tier but decent dps. Then they just jack the raids to be like gordias anyway, and or nerf healers damage output because like tanks - "theyre not a D_S.!!!!" They could do it in tons of ways, not justifying that they should, just examples. Itd be incredibly difficult to carry through story as a job that relies other characters to deal its damage, you wouldnt get through story if it was

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Their dps isn't that far back behind though, and even then they're far from the only jobs that arguably have party support abilties. Not to mention on record developers have attributed BRD's relatively lower dps to their "support" (which is double dipping anyway since use of said support already lowers their damage to begin with) or their mobility (with this being their recent statement). It's gotten to the point that it's not worth putting out a support label because I feel that even the developers don't know what they truly want BRD (and MCH) to be, beyond the game objectively labeling them as a dps role.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

Didn't think of it that way actually. Guess the holy trinity is fine as in then since everything is playing the support role. Thanks for clearing that up.

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Lol everything is playing support and DD...fun! But not really XD This is the only MMORPG I've played that has no support dedicated class...annnnd support is my favorite.

Don't get me started on the "pet" class >.< Oh well, I guess people enjoy having every job feel sameish...heh, my main is SMN and I've had all my jobs maxed since 2011..however I finally took a lot of them to 60, MNK feels like a melee SMN, and war feels a bit like SMN in some ways too...anyway, everything feels the same to me. Not really diggin it. I know..they'll never change it and add a true pet class because "outdated" etc or some astonishing logic.

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Originally Posted by Vantol

So much this! I hate the way relic is handled in this game with passion! Relic should be the strongest weapon that only a few people of millions possess. Our current "relic" is "artifact" weapon at best.

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Relic weapons are the means by which all of those non-Raiding members of the MMO can get a good looking weapon with a decent iLevel. It is definitely not the Best-in-Spec, nor is it intended as such.

The reason it is called a Relic is because it recreates an historical weapon of renown.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

SE is copying the World of Warcraft formula, because they think that is the key to success. Has World of Warcraft done anything groundbreaking in the last decade? Or has every expansion just been more dungeons, more raids, and more rep grinds? I wouldn't expect too much different here. The devs are trying to add different stuff like diadem, aquapolis, deep dungeon, and gold saucer with mixed results.

While i find the game less fun than I did before as well, I think calling the developers lazy is pretty extreme.

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They should copy Guild Wars 2 instead.

My advice would be to ride the coattails of the Free Log In Campaigns.

As someone who had been unsubbed for almost eight months before resubbing for 3.3, I can attest that, personally*, not much has changed. Using the two Free Log In Campaigns to do 3.1 and 3.2, I was able to finish off the storyline without a hefty investment for the rest of the month. At this point the only content that I actually enjoy consistently is the story, so 4 free days each time was perfect to complete them.


*I should explain what I mean by "Personally, not much has changed". My biggest gripe is in terms of gear grinding, as stating things like "Lord of Vermillion was dead on arrival!" or "I dislike Relic grinding!" is subjective to those who it caters to. So I'll only discuss the gear progression.
Lore gear is in it's prime. It's gated by a weekly cap, and individual content (running one trial, raid, dungeon, etc) doesn't give a lot of them.
Therefore the Lore gear progression is slow, and it eats up a lot of time for one full set.
But this was the same for Esoterics, which are now very easy to get. With the last Free Log In, I got a full 200 set within a couple hours.
Even before Esoterics, Law and Poetics in their prime were the same.
The slow grind, only to replace the gear, has made me stop caring about having the next best ilvl. So who is to say that there is even a need to grind out Lore gears for someone like me? I could simply wait until the next log in campaign and reap the Lore gear quite quickly for whatever content is gated by a higher ilvl.


I've always broken down my argument mathematically as to why it's simply better to wait for the log in campaigns than to continue subbing when you're unsatisfied with the content. Because the rule of subscription-based MMOs is: your sub pays for more enjoyable content. But how much content are you getting?

If it costs roughly $15/month to play, then you're paying $45 per patch.
That's almost the equivalent of a new release game through Amazon Prime.
So is the content released per patch worth a brand new game?

What about the five-month content drought last year after the release of Heavensward?
We payed $40 for the expansion, and five months worth of subs until 3.1. So was Heavensward worth $100? ($40 + $60 in subs) Two brand new release games?


With the Free Log In Campaigns, you can do any of the content you miss, and catch up with the storyline.
Personally, I resubbed for 3.3 because the story, Aquapolis, Moogle Beast Tribe quests (those Meandering Mog Slippers!!!), and Deep Dungeon were all extremely exciting pieces of content that was worth my $15.
I'll resub when Deep Dunegon gets released for 3.35, and Ill see how it is. If it bombs, then I'll probably ride the Free Log Ins until 4.0

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

They should copy Guild Wars 2 instead.

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They have some ideas planned based on the first Guild Wars, in GW1 there were NPCs that could be used as party members to do content, you would gear them up too, something like this is planned but obviously in the state "please look forward to it", and there's little info on it.

"New GC ranks, plus new type of content where you can bring your own group of NPCs, possibly new dungeons for this purpose but no promises that it’ll be done in time for 3.4 (source: PLL XXVIII)"

From the Upcoming Content Tracker

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

They have some ideas planned based on the first Guild Wars, in GW1 there were NPCs that could be used as party members to do content, you would gear them up too, something like this is planned but obviously in the state "please look forward to it", and there's little info on it.

"New GC ranks, plus new type of content where you can bring your own group of NPCs, possibly new dungeons for this purpose but no promises that it’ll be done in time for 3.4 (source: PLL XXVIII)"

From the Upcoming Content Tracker

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Looking at this sheet am I to assume the new GC gear they promised for 3.3 is now being pushed back to 3.4?

Edit: What a disappointment. I had hoped for it to be included in 3.35 but that's just sad.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Looking at this sheet am I to assume the new GC gear they promised for 3.3 is now being pushed back to 3.4?

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I think i saw a forum post by a mod/dev saying yes.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I think i saw a forum post by a mod/dev saying yes.

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Which sadly, still means "I don't know" or "Maybe" :/ Seeing as all the numerous things they said yes to or said how it's going to be and it ended up completely different.
"FC and personal housing will be different!" "You can afford a house just off getting your first 50!" "Roaming primals!" etc

Two? Three? years ago in another topic, they said "We'll be adding FC alliances". Where are those? lol

Shoot..where are our working alliances in diadem? lol Whenever I take my FC in there with 3 ships we all sit there in different parties like a buncha fools. Can't share loot, credit or anything. That is NOT an alliance.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Shoot..where are our working alliances in diadem? lol Whenever I take my FC in there with 3 ships we all sit there in different parties like a buncha fools. Can't share loot, credit or anything. That is NOT an alliance.

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Same place as FC alliances, it got ganked by roaming primals.

If SE doesn't shake things up a bit, they will have the same subscription loss that FFXI had. They are making the same mistake of being too casual, as XI was too hard core. I think they should cut out the ilvl system, to keep better gear relevant for longer. If I had it my way, I would delete the word raid from content. They should mimic XI's endgame style and content, to create delayed gratification and longevity. They need to take a break from 4, 8, and 24 man instances. Also remove the cap on tomes and use tome gear as a base or bottom line to clear story content/exp. Tomes are basically participation trophies, you shouldn't be able to get near the best gear by doing 4 man dungeons X amount of times.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

They have some ideas planned based on the first Guild Wars, in GW1 there were NPCs that could be used as party members to do content, you would gear them up too, something like this is planned but obviously in the state "please look forward to it", and there's little info on it.

"New GC ranks, plus new type of content where you can bring your own group of NPCs, possibly new dungeons for this purpose but no promises that it’ll be done in time for 3.4 (source: PLL XXVIII)"

From the Upcoming Content Tracker

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I'm having a blast with Guild Wars 2 right now
The world is huge and exploration is fun <=== FF14 lacks fun exploration
Story is better than FF14 and all NPC's in the game are voiced
The new expansion is fun as hell
Hundred and hundreds of people are still participating in events (equal to our fates) and they're fun to do. <==== FF14 fates are dead and are for grinding experience, boring.
Combat is fun. killing things in GW2 is a blast and not a chore
Horizontal progression.
you get tons of loot by just doing anything
Dungeons are fun and have multiple paths. Each path with its own story.
2 zones in Guild Wars 2 (over 30 zones) is the entire world of FF14.
I haven't stopped playing GW2 since last week. I only log in to FF14 for the Moogle tribe and that's it. Gonna stop after this patch not worth it anymore
GW2 offers way more content than FF14 and I don't have to pay $9.99 a month

FF14 is very polished, but its the same thing patch after patch. Dungeons are boring, fates are dead and the world feels empty. Last time I was in MLN looking for an A rank I didn't see one person there. That's how the world is in FF14, empty you don't go there unless you need something.

Bring NPC's to dungeons, I'd rather have real people.

My sub runs out in 2 days and i've cancelled the renewal. GW2 sounds interesting i'll go try that.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I'm having a blast with Guild Wars 2 right now
GW2 offers way more content than FF14 and I don't have to pay $9.99 a month

FF14 is very polished, but its the same thing patch after patch. Dungeons are boring, fates are dead and the world feels empty. Last time I was in MLN looking for an A rank I didn't see one person there. That's how the world is in FF14, empty you don't go there unless you need something.

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I already suggested a few times through the forums to stop copying the WoW formula and look at GW2 instead.

Also the "Relics" aka Legendaries in GW2 (also thanks to horizontal progression) are the most powerful weapons in the game, they can take months to get but at least they are relevant and not just a cool glamour.

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Originally Posted by RobbieH

I already suggested a few times through the forums to stop copying the WoW formula and look at GW2 instead.

Also the "Relics" aka Legendaries in GW2 (also thanks to horizontal progression) are the most powerful weapons in the game, they can take months to get but at least they are relevant and not just a cool glamour.

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yep its as if our FF14 endgame weapons have no value in 3 months. Same goes to all gear in FF14. All the money and time spent on 2.0 end game crafting (saved if you knew it was going to happen) went down the drain with 3.0

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

My sub runs out in 2 days and i've cancelled the renewal. GW2 sounds interesting i'll go try that.

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Few more days left on mine. I think ill check out black desert online.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

Few more days left on mine. I think ill check out black desert online.

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I played it for a few days from a guest pass a friend gave me and from as far as I got, it's not bad. It's not as amazing as people hyped it to be though.

I named my donkey mount SirAssALot >_> Couldn't resist

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

I played it for a few days from a guest pass a friend gave me and from as far as I got, it's not bad. It's not as amazing as people hyped it to be though.

I named my donkey mount SirAssALot >_> Couldn't resist

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I don't really like the combat or how they handle the race & classes. I do like that its huge open world game and has interesting features like actually sending out your retainers out in the world and they could get attacked by other players. Capturing horses, hunting whales and birds. Far better housing system then in this game.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

Few more days left on mine. I think ill check out black desert online.

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I will also be checking that out.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

I don't really like the combat or how they handle the race & classes. I do like that its huge open world game and has interesting features like actually sending out your retainers out in the world and they could get attacked by other players. Capturing horses, hunting whales and birds. Far better housing system then in this game.

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Yeah, I dislike when they lock race/gender to classes, but the combat was ok, something different from the usual "hit 123 while standing still" that a majority of mmos do. Even your mounts can be killed too if you leave it in random spots. Before I figured out you can call your mount to you, I had so many great puns about losing my ass when I forgot where I parked my mount lol
Thing I don't like about the housing, it seems you can buy it with in game money, but need cash shop to furnish it... lol idk, maybe later on its different, but after about 20 something levels (before guest pass expired) it felt that way.

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

My sub runs out in 2 days and i've cancelled the renewal. GW2 sounds interesting i'll go try that.

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I'm going to be playing FFXI til XV comes out. My sub runs out soon as well, don't know when but I did cancel the renewal.
I might even invest more time into Phantasy Star Online 2, that's a pretty fun game.

A few things.

1. My word, did someone actually say FFXIV has a more toxic community than FFXI? Since when and how? Was I the only one who remembers the toxic levels of HNMLS's in that game? Am I the only one who remembers not just a few, but everyone breaking the ToS with using bots to claim an HNM? Am I the only one who remembers the level people would go to steal a claimed mob from another (like flailing in Dragon's Aery). Or lets not forget two to three groups clashing with one another to get a spot in a Dynamis zone. Or gil sellers getting bad to the point they are farming in Sky and stealing the mobs from legit players. Ohh yea and some of those "legit players" actually helping the gil sellers get good at content. Third party forums every day with personal drama between LS's. But yes, in FFXIV you have to deal with an asshole in duty roulette sometimes. So toxic the FFXIV community is. The FFXIV community is not perfect by any means, but of all the MMO's I played (including WoW), FFXI had one of the most toxic end game communities ever.

2. Open world dungeons and NM's. First off, we have hunts, this was made directly in response to the people on here constantly griping the world needs open world NM's. Guess what? You got it. Does it work? Kind of. Creating HNM's where only a group of 8 can take on and spawns irregularly. This is going to cause exactly what happened in FFXI. People will resort to tactics that may potentially break ToS and will cause drama among players. The hunts as they are, work kind of. The worst you lose is access to some seals. Not an actual vital weapon or armor. For open world dungeons, you really want this for how big the population is? 1.0 open world dungeons were packed with people and a hard time getting things done, imagine that with the population we have now? SE attempted to remedy this with Diadem, which was a best of both worlds solution on paper. Unfortunately the execution was not solid. Try offering SE feedback on how to make Diadem better. I don't believe you should ever make content where another group not related to you can stop your progress. It should be the game/content that does that, not another group of players. This is what gets people to unsubscribe. I absolutely hated watching spawn windows in FFXI. Sit in Dragon's Aery all day, watching and waiting for 8-12 hours, just to see another group claim it with a bot they have. In the nicest way I can possibly say it, #$%^ that big time.

3. Vertical/Horizontal. First off, I keep hearing the 3-4 month everything is crap argument. You don't get actually higher ilvl gear till every even patch, which is 5-6 months. Odd number patches are indeed horizontal patches rather if you believe that is the case or not. In the even patch, you are given either tomestone gear, raid gear, primal weapon, and sometimes relic. In an odd patch, you are given a better primal weapon, 24-man gear, and alternate means to upgrade gear. So yes this game does have horizontal content. I know its not your get a weapon in 3 months and it last 3 years way you want it, but it is a thing. I rather have the game constantly giving you new goals to take on instead of making one piece of content last for years. People get bored of content in this game quick enough as it is, what will hold their attention with a Sky/Sea area for a few years? Hell, I did that stuff in FFXI's prime and I got sick of it. I still don't know why I endured it. That type of content was for a niche group then, and those ideas are for a niche group now.

4. Good ideas I heard in here. Why yes I do whole heartily agree that primals need to drop accessories again. This was magnificent in 2.0. Rings that could fill the slot that raid accessories cannot. This should be a thing that returns. To the one who said relics need to be interesting again, absolutely yes. It was extremely dumb that the developers believe that relic quests should just be bang your head on your keyboard and win a prize type of set up. It is a given that the relic quests do need to have a grind in it, at the same time, it absolutely needs breathing room in steps. Grinding out, trading in, then grinding again on the next quest is the very definition of tedious. Now doing something like grinding, then fight a primal or fight similar to Chimera/Hydra, do a small series of easy quests, then put in the next grind. Relic should of been midcore content. I don't understand either why someone who is so casual to the point they don't touch any content considered a bit challenging is catered to for the relic quest. It is just typical SE backwards thinking.

5. Overall. Something I see a lot in here, and I can probably point a finger at myself some also is that when people present ideas in here, what I usually see is ideas that are good for them. Unfortunately, the game is not made for you, it is made for everyone. When you give an idea or a suggestion, you really need to ask yourself "Is this in my best interest? Or in the best interest in the entire community?" Will said change or idea appeal to the masses or be better for the casual, midcore, or hardcore parts of the community? If it doesn't, chances are it is not a good or productive idea for the game. Bring in ideas that work in the context of the game's fundamentals and help give suggestions to make the content structure in place better, that is called constructive criticism. When you tell the developers they need to completely take down everything in how they build up this game and keep the flow going, that is called destructive criticism, and when you give destructive criticism, unless you make an extremely strong case and evidence, the developers are not going to listen to it. It gets you no where and hypothetically if they did do it, would cause more problems and controversy than solutions. You have to look at the chain of effects on how content is added or taken away. You have to think how the community as whole will act to it. Not just you and your friends. Always help the developers with feedback and ideas to make the game better, just take what I said above in strong consideration before doing so. Developing and balancing content in a MMO is ridiculously hard to do, because you can't please everyone.


Annnnd scene x_x

Yes Velhart, we deal with jerks in duty finder. what you fail to mention is that the duty finder IS THE BASIS OF THE MAJORITY OF CONTENT PARTAKEN IN THIS GAME. Also, much of the community is split apart into smaller cliques, again encouraged by the content. because said content is faster, grindy, andin the case of the bleeding edge, less forgiving, this results in players making drama over even sucessful runs in lower content.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Yes Velhart, we deal with jerks in duty finder. what you fail to mention is that the duty finder IS THE BASIS OF THE MAJORITY OF CONTENT PARTAKEN IN THIS GAME. Also, much of the community is split apart into smaller cliques, again encouraged by the content. because said content is faster and overall less ofrgiving, this results in players making drama over even sucessful runs.

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I use the duty roulette every day. The amount of toxic players I get is extremely far between. Most of the time the most people say is "Hello" and "Good bye". No matter what MMO you play in however form it is played in, you are going to deal with toxic, misbehaving players. You cannot prevent that unless you decide to stay within your friend circle and never leave it. This particular thing is not a FFXIV problem, it is a problem with online games in general.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I use the duty roulette every day. The amount of toxic players I get is extremely far between. Most of the time the most people say is "Hello" and "Good bye". No matter what MMO you play in however form it is played in, you are going to deal with toxic, misbehaving players. You cannot prevent that unless you decide to stay within your friend circle and never leave it. This particular thing is not a FFXIV problem, it is a problem with online games in general.

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Yeah, and staying within the friend circle is what a lot of people do in this game. Kinda part of the forums' numbers as well. What it takes to influence someone to engage with the larger community isn't something that can be automated, and sadly, is affected by game system convienence.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

My word, did someone actually say FFXIV has a more toxic community than FFXI? Since when and how? Was I the only one who remembers the toxic levels of HNMLS's in that game?

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HNM drama was always memorable, but very rare, so I don't think it's accurate to make it sound like it was the day-to-day norm, across every server at that.
For Dynamis, the two servers that I played on both had leaders communicate and basically create a rota for which group runs and when; everyone was really respectful and there was no drama or bad blood between any of the groups. Every group would lend each other currency for relic weapons and even form an alliance or sub in members for zone clears at times.

It really was one of the better communities I've seen in an MMO, where people were aware that reputation on your server goes a long way, and preserving it is in everyone's best interest.

On this game, however, nobody really cares how they behave, because chances are they'll never encounter or have to play with anyone they're matched with ever again.

This type of 'anonymity' is what breeds toxicity, as is shown in virtually any online platform - from the quick-matchmaking games such as FPS and MOBAs, all the way through to social media:
Notice the correlation between the level of personal accountability and the frequency of shit-posts from Facebook > Youtube > 4chan.

How often did you hear people on XI complaining about players in a PT or mission group?
Now compare that to the hundreds of threads made about people being bad in DF, early hunt pullers, 24-man rage quits, vote abandons, tanks refusing to play if the healer is dpsing, tanks refusing to play if the healer isn't dpsing, and everything in between.

So no, I don't think XI had anywhere near the amount of crying and 'toxic behaviour' that this game has.
I don't know why anyone would think otherwise, it's just a by-product of making a game so casual and easily-accessible that it's played by millions.

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Originally Posted by Dextro

HNM drama was always memorable, but very rare, so I don't think it's accurate to make it sound like it was the day-to-day norm, across every server at that.
For Dynamis, the two servers that I played on both had leaders communicate and basically create a rota for which group runs and when; everyone was really respectful and there was no drama or bad blood between any of the groups. Every group would lend each other currency for relic weapons and even form an alliance or sub in members for zone clears at times.

It really was one of the better communities I've seen in an MMO, where people were aware that reputation on your server goes a long way, and preserving it is in everyone's best interest.

On this game, however, nobody really cares how they behave, because chances are they'll never encounter or have to play with anyone they're matched with ever again.

This type of 'anonymity' is what breeds toxicity, as is shown in virtually any online platform - from the quick-matchmaking games such as FPS and MOBAs, all the way through to social media:
Notice the correlation between the level of personal accountability and the frequency of shit-posts from Facebook > Youtube > 4chan.

How often did you hear people on XI complaining about players in a PT or mission group?
Now compare that to the hundreds of threads made about people being bad in DF, early hunt pullers, 24-man rage quits, vote abandons, tanks refusing to play if the healer is dpsing, tanks refusing to play if the healer isn't dpsing, and everything in between.

So no, I don't think XI had anywhere near the amount of crying and 'toxic behaviour' that this game has.
I don't know why anyone would think otherwise, it's just a by-product of making a game so casual and easily-accessible that it's played by millions.

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This. And let's say the amount of casual players is way higher in XIV due the easy and accessible content we have; pretty sure 90% of those players will never get out from Kazham.

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Originally Posted by Dextro

I don't know why anyone would think otherwise, it's just a by-product of making a game so casual and easily-accessible that it's played by millions.

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There's another factor to consider as well: Overall playerbase size. Currently, FFXIV is far larger in terms of player count than FFXI ever was. It may currently be impossible to have the same sort of tight-knit community with the game as large as it is. It's much harder to keep track of the sheer number of players.

While I understand the downsides of the "Duty Finder" and other quick-matchmaking, don't forget the benefits. Players can conveniently run most content (i.e. anything other than EX trials and Savage Raids) without having to dedicate to a firm schedule or a group. It makes the game incredibly convenient for a huge amount of players. While I certainly understand the desire for a more tight-knit community, I rather enjoy the current level of time-saving measures in the game. It allows me (and plenty of other players) to get a lot more done in a short amount of time.

I'm in no way saying the system is perfect, but a lot of the players currently playing FFXIV probably wouldn't have the time to play a much slower-paced MMO like FFXI. It comes down largely to personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

There's another factor to consider as well: Overall playerbase size. Currently, FFXIV is far larger in terms of player count than FFXI ever was.

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By "far larger" I assume you mean only about 100k-200k larger >_> XI peaked at around 500k-600k ish, XIV's got about that, maybe 700k ish. Don't go off of the "4 million accounts" that SE's mentioned. Accounts =/= active subscribers. Let's also not forget, part of that 700k ish are rmt. Also, just to point out, did you notice that when you search all on XIV, it won't tell you how many are actually on, like XI did? Kind of makes you feel like SE doesn't want people to know how low it really is.

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Originally Posted by Fumijj_Gah

This. And let's say the amount of casual players is way higher in XIV due the easy and accessible content we have; pretty sure 90% of those players will never get out from Kazham.

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LOL the amount of parties that stood by the Kazham zone compared to both the Jungle zones. Image if they had to go do Genkais... especially Genkai 3. XD

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Also, just to point out, did you notice that when you search all on XIV, it won't tell you how many are actually on, like XI did? Kind of makes you feel like SE doesn't want people to know how low it really is.

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Exactly, SE doesn't want to let us know how many people are playing this game, even though I managed to with some trick, here is what I did on my phoenix server a while back,supposed to be one of the most populated EU servers:
There is a search function that you can use, what I did was searching for 2-3 classes at once making sure the result would never hit the 200 players cap. You can test this on your server too, if you got some time, if you are curious to know how many players are online on your server.
So for example look for all warriors 1-30, then 31-59, then 60. Add the results up and write it down. Remember make sure you don't hit the 200 cap. if you hit the cap with 31-59, make a search for 31-50 and another one for 51-59.
Do this for all other classes. Don't forget the J D E F languages.
Can't remember the exact number, but my results was something like 1200-1300 players logged on at the same time. If you ask me this is a low number compared to the 3k+ I had on my ragnarok server back in the golden days of FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Azrael

Can't remember the exact number, but my results was something like 1200-1300 players logged on at the same time. If you ask me this is a low number compared to the 3k+ I had on my ragnarok server back in the golden days of FFXI.

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Exactly. For some reason people seem to think theres 7k+ per server. Not to mention that considering my data center has the "two biggest servers" on it, you can't possibly tell me that with how big its supposed to be, that not a single tank or healer are queuing up for half the roulettes. More evidence that XIV isn't doing as well as SE wants us to think, just look at FCs now compared to pre-2.3. Back then, a majority of FCs that I saw had 30-50 active members on at a time. Now? Most I've seen while just running around is about ~15 online and thats one of the previous bigger FCs, while a lot seem to hover around 1-5 online through most of the day.

XI actually still has 2? 3? servers that are still over 1.2kish online, though most seem to stick around 500-800.