Artifact Armors!

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

I want to see a Greatsword class that become dark knight (screw the scythe, its such a horrible weapon, logically anyway).

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Thats why I say LNC and or MRD yields DRK, Scythes would be a variant of polearm, and GS would be a variant of Axe (i guess) would be cool if they did it along those lines so we could have both of those weapons available.

Well I would like to see additional classes to be added to compliment more jobs. Its one of the reasons why I really think that making a bow-harp combo seem like a cop-out because it limits the new types of classes, as someone who has a detailed post on jobs and advanced jobs, the idea of classes is still quite cool and its a shame to see it limited by having weapons transform into other weapons/objects.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Well I would like to see additional classes to be added to compliment more jobs. Its one of the reasons why I really think that making a bow-harp combo seem like a cop-out because it limits the new types of classes, as someone who has a detailed post on jobs and advanced jobs, the idea of classes is still quite cool and its a shame to see it limited by having weapons transform into other weapons/objects.

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this is my main problem. Its not that musical archer is a horrible idea, or it will suck to play, its that they are setting a precedent that jobs can have not much to do with the classes they come from, and yet be for the forseeable future the only specialization. It shortchangeds both the initial class, and the job that becomes it.

Its like if pugilist ----> engineer. it might be entertaining, but nothing about pugilist skills, are really engineer like, sure they could throw like 7 job abilities on pug and say its an engineer, but why ruin the job engineer, by watering it down with 25 pugilist skills? why screw with the class pugilist by making it extend into a class that it has nothing to do with?

Those type of classes are interesting to exist, but they shouldnt be tied to a class that bares little in common with it. I know they needed a support class a healer and a blm, but they really should have built the jobs that work with the classes, and the classes that will give them the jobs they wanted to have out.

Im sure no one would be complaining, if they released a musician mystic classes and jobs that matched them like whm and bard. Minstrel could have come later, as a hybrid class requiring archer and minstrel. Archer could have got ranger/hunter with a focus on traps, preparations and specialized arrows, they could even make it a buff/debuff class, but it should have made more sense withing the discipline, special arrow spells/preparations, and prepared rituals/spells etc that buffed people in a certain area, maybe also traps. It would have made more sense, served a similar purpose, and not screwed over the possibilities and execution of a bard/minstrel class.

it also would not have required an all new weapon, and i really wonder how that weapon is going to work, if its required to be a bard, then it will make all non lyrebows of diminished value, unless it can be replaced by a regular bow, its really pretty weird

Was the bow harp even confirmed or are we just getting bent out of shape over pure speculation?

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Originally Posted by Physic

they are setting a precedent that jobs can have not much to do with the classes they come from

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Don't forget that this is subjective and that classes themselves, aside from the dealings of their guild, don't have any particular identity besides that particular weapon proficiency. To use your example, a pugilist (fist-fighter) becoming an engineer is only strange if you hold the subjective link that there is a necessary correlation between pugilism and becoming a monk.

Who is to say that engineer would not prefer to fight with his fists while he's not fixing things?

And, I'll keep saying this as long as it keeps coming up - who is to say it makes less sense for a minstrel who wants to do combat to use a bow than a dagger? If your method of contributing to a battle is keeping morale high through song, my guess is that you don't like being all that close to the danger. Never-the-less, storywise, if I'm bringing a bard on a mission to do battle, he better be helping out with more than just morale - and if he's not curing, he better be fighting. If he prefers to be far from the actual danger, I suppose he better pick up a bow.

Barcher.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

My Lulu was a White mage, and Khimari was my Black Mage... (there were no jobs in that game is my point)

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The point being that this 'armor' isn't seen in a majority of the FFs. At least ones that are in 3D. It seems like a nostalgia fan-service and a further indication that we're going to FFXI2land.

I say fuck all that armor, give us unique shit. I don't want to wear that crappy ass white mage armor if I choose to go that, and yes, I will be forced to unless they add cosmetic slots for armor.

I think its funny that you want no connection with the Final Fantasy series and you play a Final Fantasy game. If you love Square-Enix as a game creator and want to play a MMO but don't want the Final Fantasy bit, may I point you to WAKFU, Fantasy Earth Zero, and DragonQuest X. All made by Square-Enix but don't bare any of the Final Fantasy!

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Don't forget that this is subjective and that classes themselves, aside from the dealings of their guild, don't have any particular identity besides that particular weapon proficiency. To use your example, a pugilist (fist-fighter) becoming an engineer is only strange if you hold the subjective link that there is a necessary correlation between pugilism and becoming a monk.

Who is to say that engineer would not prefer to fight with his fists while he's not fixing things?

And, I'll keep saying this as long as it keeps coming up - who is to say it makes less sense for a minstrel who wants to do combat to use a bow than a dagger? If your method of contributing to a battle is keeping morale high through song, my guess is that you don't like being all that close to the danger. Never-the-less, storywise, if I'm bringing a bard on a mission to do battle, he better be helping out with more than just morale - and if he's not curing, he better be fighting. If he prefers to be far from the actual danger, I suppose he better pick up a bow.

Barcher.

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Its not about it making sense in terms of, one person only doing one thing, or a bard using a bow and arrow. It doesnt make sense in terms of a game with job progression. Bard like abilities, singing, making music, playing instruments, and their possible effects have nothing to do with archer at all. Its all good for bard to use a bow, but its pretty bad for someone who played archer for 1 year to be told that they are supposed to sing or play an instrument, because it has no skill, playstyle, or lore connection.

It also sucks for a person who wanted to be a musician type charachter who wants to do support in parties, to have to level up a class that does no support at all for 20 levels.

Like i said, its not that bard itself if a horrible class, its more about what it means for the future of archer, the future of musician support, and what jobs mean.

If jobs are just like different classes, that use a bit of the skills of some other classes, why tie them to jobs at all? why not just unlock a job, and start leveling it again, or allow people to use skills from any class on any job. What connects bard to a bow? why not a hand to hand bard? or a sword using bard.

This is the other problem with these big leaps, with this they are locking the bard skills, to the archer job. While i can use pug lnc con etc abilities on any class, the bard abilities which arent really a part of archery, (support class we have been missing) is only available to one job. It makes perfect sense for dragoon abilities that are really specific to polearm use, and the dragoon job to be exclusive to lancer because they are connected, it doesnt make as much sense to lock support/bard type skills to an archer, because they have little to do with each other.

When you consider that bard was already a planned job, and in fact has some spells available in the dats, its kind of sad that what once could have been skills for the armory that all could have used, are likely to be archer exclusives, playing instruments and singing, archer only, who d have thought it.

Seriously, there are too many people telling SE what the game is and not opening their eyes to see it. Does nobody think that SE may have created an insanely sick class system that will allow people to custom tailor their character more than ever before. Everyone wants to throw classes into the FFXI mold and it really is getting old.

Did any of you stop to think that maybe for you to create your "RDM" character, it might mean you have to combine two or more classes skills? That maybe they have set it up so that you can decide that if you want a RDM that is primarily a mage you pick a THM and combine it with say a Fencer? Or if you want a RDM that is more specialized in combat a Fencer with THM spells?

Open your eyes and minds to what you can do instead of trying to get SE to herd you into your comfortable stall.

I see open-endedness...For those of you with limited vision we'll stick to labels you know. What about a MNK? Couldn't that be a PUG with Stavesman skills? Or a Stavesman with PUG skills? Or even a PUG with CON healing skills?

If you stop running your mouths and trying to tell everyone what the game should be, you might just see that the game can be way more than your simple minds ever imagined.

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Originally Posted by Celebcarca

Seriously, there are too many people telling SE what the game is and not opening their eyes to see it. Does nobody think that SE may have created an insanely sick class system that will allow people to custom tailor their character more than ever before. Everyone wants to throw classes into the FFXI mold and it really is getting old.

Did any of you stop to think that maybe for you to create your "RDM" character, it might mean you have to combine two or more classes skills? That maybe they have set it up so that you can decide that if you want a RDM that is primarily a mage you pick a THM and combine it with say a Fencer? Or if you want a RDM that is more specialized in combat a Fencer with THM spells?

Open your eyes and minds to what you can do instead of trying to get SE to herd you into your comfortable stall.

I see open-endedness...For those of you with limited vision we'll stick to labels you know. What about a MNK? Couldn't that be a PUG with Stavesman skills? Or a Stavesman with PUG skills? Or even a PUG with CON healing skills?

If you stop running your mouths and trying to tell everyone what the game should be, you might just see that the game can be way more than your simple minds ever imagined.

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there was this possibility, but it looks like its going away with 1 to 1 jobs, and further aways with new skill systems being locked completely to one class, even if it could be its own new class. I honestly hope they make muscian skills a side weapon like shield, and give bard and future music based classes access to the same skills, much like sentinel. I hope they will later introduce a musicain class, so people can make the combo if they choose too, or specialize with a bard or whatever the music class would become. (composer?)

wouldnt be too bad to let jobs get multiple classes that work with them, but i doubt that will happen

All they have to do to remedy the whole stupid problem is to simply not lock jobs to weapons, it's not complicated. Just don't lock jobs to weapons/classes. They make this way more complicated than it has to be. Their love for rules over freedom just means they have to create ever more complicated rules and loopholes to justify their crazy regulations.

I agree with your solution, to a point, but I have to say, hands down - they tried to give us freedom. "We" didn't want it. Don't you remember November and December?

"Lock gear to jobs!" "Define our party roles!" "This isn't traditional Final Fantasy!" "Require ranks on gear!" "We need structure!"

At least we can't say they weren't listening. People did not like their freedom - the world was just too big and scary to formulate their own strategies and create their own jobs.

Ever heard of striking a balance. Replacing one absolute with another does not make things more palatable. It just makes it another indigestible extreme.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Well I would like to see additional classes to be added to compliment more jobs. Its one of the reasons why I really think that making a bow-harp combo seem like a cop-out because it limits the new types of classes, as someone who has a detailed post on jobs and advanced jobs, the idea of classes is still quite cool and its a shame to see it limited by having weapons transform into other weapons/objects.

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I think they've already said they'll do this, not to mention Musketeer and Arcanist coming down the line sometime as classes. There's no reason for them not to add new classes to accommodate new jobs as well.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I knew I could hear Bayohne laughing all the way from here. You're actually enjoying watching us argue, aren't you?! :D

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The funny thing is, even if they did give us the information, there would still be arguing. SE probably finds this more amusing. And who wouldn't? This community is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

The funny thing is, even if they did give us the information, there would still be arguing. SE probably finds this more amusing. And who wouldn't? This community is ridiculous.

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It is a laugh riot around here sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I agree with your solution, to a point, but I have to say, hands down - they tried to give us freedom. "We" didn't want it. Don't you remember November and December?

"Lock gear to jobs!" "Define our party roles!" "This isn't traditional Final Fantasy!" "Require ranks on gear!" "We need structure!"

At least we can't say they weren't listening. People did not like their freedom - the world was just too big and scary to formulate their own strategies and create their own jobs.

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It's not that people didn't want freedom. It's that nothing matters when everything is the same. There was a significant lack of uniqueness among the jobs that was bad. People wanted THAT defined. They don't want freedom taken away.

Honestly I just want to be able to look at a player that is seeking a party in my level range and know exactly what role that player is planning on bringing to the party without having to ask a million questions (what spells do you have? Do you have that Gladiator ability as well? Do you focus on supporting with your Lancer or are you a damage dealer?) That was the main problem with the penultimate freedom of the armory system, maybe if there was a way that the game could list your role in a search function that would make it seem easier, but no one wants to invite a player expecting them--and partially needing them--to perform a certain role when it turns out they are playing it the complete opposite.

That is where the Job system will succeed.

Stuffz gonna be amazing! :D

I picture Bard being similiar to Corsair in XI. It doesn't completley not make sense to me. I don't expect a bard to hold the same damage potential (you can bet it won't multishot) as an Archer. And I highly doubt whatever they do to PUG/LNC/MRD will ever make them more desirable than an Archer (most people won't even attempt dungeon without a handful of archers).

The whole reason the producers are working on jobs is the bring in the FF lore back into the game. People used to complain at how AWFUL it was that we didn't have original class names in the game (it never bothered me, and wouldn't have). Also, the jobs I think will not be as highly customizable as your classes. A LOT of people complain as to how if you have one job at rank 50, it almost certainly isn't good enough. You need multiple abilities / etc from other jobs to be as effective as you need to be. Jobs I think will make a "rank 50 a 50" so to speak, and lose people a lot of frustration.
->(Note: I don't think personally leveling multiple jobs is a bad thing. I myself have done it. I fully don't expect jobs to replace classes ever)

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Originally Posted by OranGemeo

I picture Bard being similiar to Corsair in XI. It doesn't completley not make sense to me. I don't expect a bard to hold the same damage potential (you can bet it won't multishot) as an Archer. And I highly doubt whatever they do to PUG/LNC/MRD will ever make them more desirable than an Archer (most people won't even attempt dungeon without a handful of archers).

The whole reason the producers are working on jobs is the bring in the FF lore back into the game. People used to complain at how AWFUL it was that we didn't have original class names in the game (it never bothered me, and wouldn't have). Also, the jobs I think will not be as highly customizable as your classes. A LOT of people complain as to how if you have one job at rank 50, it almost certainly isn't good enough. You need multiple abilities / etc from other jobs to be as effective as you need to be. Jobs I think will make a "rank 50 a 50" so to speak, and lose people a lot of frustration.
->(Note: I don't think personally leveling multiple jobs is a bad thing. I myself have done it. I fully don't expect jobs to replace classes ever)

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why wouldn't Bard be able to multishot? He should still have all the archer abilities to work with and the added/enhanced abilities bard will provide.

Also, I believe this magazine should be coming out in about 7 hours? Will anyone know of a venue to check scans or translations quickly? I know they will eventually make their way on to these forums, but just making sure if there is a better locale. Ty!~

i think when you unlock jobs you should be put back to level 1 most of the players base have 50s on there fav class in the pass 2-3days i got 33-41 and i bet 50 soon being 50 monk soon i unlock it sound boring like hell

what the point of getting AF on a rank 50 job when we have the best gear not if the AF is 10x better and i bet part of it be pointless just like ffxi.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

i think when you unlock jobs you should be put back to level 1 most of the players base have 50s on there fav class in the pass 2-3days i got 33-41 and i bet 50 soon being 50 monk soon i unlock it sound boring like hell

what the point of getting AF on a rank 50 job when we have the best gear not if the AF is 10x better and i bet part of it be pointless just like ffxi.

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Except jobs is more like a trait you equip. They have said this already. The job trait allows you to be more specialized for certain situations along with abilities you quest for.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

i think when you unlock jobs you should be put back to level 1 most of the players base have 50s on there fav class in the pass 2-3days i got 33-41 and i bet 50 soon being 50 monk soon i unlock it sound boring like hell

what the point of getting AF on a rank 50 job when we have the best gear not if the AF is 10x better and i bet part of it be pointless just like ffxi.

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I think that would be terrible.

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

I think that would be terrible.

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I agree

/10char

._. I feel terrible considering that the Archer transforms into some Bard Hybrid thing. Well actually it's a nice and new idea to throw in, but.. I can't imagine how that fits into the game. And if those instruments are attached to the bow, ain't the bow getting too heavy? o_o

My Archer is 38 atm (not playing on a regular basis tho) and that bard stuff makes me want to level another job =x

I guess we'll have to wait for 1.20 and see how it goes ;(

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Originally Posted by Bethor

I guess we'll have to wait for 1.21 and see how it goes ;(

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fixed for you :)

Think about it like this: Once you get the job set unlocked, even though it will be the same level as the class you unlocked it for, you'll probably have to do alot of challenging quests to fill out your ability set.

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

I think that would be terrible.

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wtf do you have to do now? tell me that? you have everything 50? is there anything else for you? beside doing random dungeons in the game getting gear you pretty much don't need and wasting more room on your char? When they could make Jobs and you level them up? and have something to do again beside log in to do dungeon and log off? i mean come on it should be terrible for you not being that way at least i close to my first 50 and i reroll 3 times. People are even level up 2 char because there noting to do.

Even if they add 1-2 more dungeon this patch you get them done with a few days and get bored of it. When level up monk,PLD,WHM,BLM you have endless things to do and unlocking spells,ja,ws,and AF.

You people ideas of a game is like wow why do you people even play a mmo the game is not all about what you do at the end but how you get to the end and once you there it pretty much boring and feel like a dam job logging in every day there a event just to sit there for hours at end doing the same dungeon over and over and over and over to hope to god it drop and you can out bid the leader or someone else.

But w/e i end this here i still think we should be allow to level up the Jobs from 1-50 and jobs should be more party base then class. That or add Jobs then later delete the idea of Class all together i don't get what they going to do if jobs are for party and dungeon event what they going to do?

Can't Enter without Job? type of thing? or just let people enter with class or jobs? then what the point of adding jobs lol. i hope SE find a way to fix all the issue and stop trying to make the game for everyone and do something that just works. last post on this topic.

How about you wait till about 1.20 where they have the groundwork set for them to explain how they will work before spewing off some rant.

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

I think that would be terrible.

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Agreed, more pointless grinding isn't content. It's artificial lengthening of current content, it's stupid. We already have 18 (19 including sentinel) classes to level up, adding another 7 with no reason would just be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

wtf do you have to do now? tell me that? you have everything 50? is there anything else for you? beside doing random dungeons in the game getting gear you pretty much don't need and wasting more room on your char? When they could make Jobs and you level them up? and have something to do again beside log in to do dungeon and log off? i mean come on it should be terrible for you not being that way at least i close to my first 50 and i reroll 3 times. People are even level up 2 char because there noting to do.

Even if they add 1-2 more dungeon this patch you get them done with a few days and get bored of it. When level up monk,PLD,WHM,BLM you have endless things to do and unlocking spells,ja,ws,and AF.

You people ideas of a game is like wow why do you people even play a mmo the game is not all about what you do at the end but how you get to the end and once you there it pretty much boring and feel like a dam job logging in every day there a event just to sit there for hours at end doing the same dungeon over and over and over and over to hope to god it drop and you can out bid the leader or someone else.

But w/e i end this here i still think we should be allow to level up the Jobs from 1-50 and jobs should be more party base then class. That or add Jobs then later delete the idea of Class all together i don't get what they going to do if jobs are for party and dungeon event what they going to do?

Can't Enter without Job? type of thing? or just let people enter with class or jobs? then what the point of adding jobs lol. i hope SE find a way to fix all the issue and stop trying to make the game for everyone and do something that just works. last post on this topic.

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seeing as Grim has almost every battle class to 50 I'm sure he doesn't want to level up yet another, though I'm sure he is fine with having a system in place to unlock abilities, I know I for sure would rather that then have to grind leves again for a month.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

i think when you unlock jobs you should be put back to level 1 most of the players base have 50s on there fav class in the pass 2-3days i got 33-41 and i bet 50 soon being 50 monk soon i unlock it sound boring like hell

what the point of getting AF on a rank 50 job when we have the best gear not if the AF is 10x better and i bet part of it be pointless just like ffxi.

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it was said that jobs are a build on your class so unlucking a job will locks skills from other classes but give you advance skills that other jobs or classes cannt use. they also said that 50 gld = 50 pld, jobs are used for party and group events. and classes will be for solo was the way i read.

also stop thinking lvl 50 will be perm lvl cap

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Originally Posted by ereskigal

it was said that jobs are a build on your class so unlucking a job will locks skills from other classes but give you advance skills that other jobs or classes cannt use. they also said that 50 gld = 50 pld, jobs are used for party and group events. and classes will be for solo was the way i read.

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yes i know but if the dungeon and other party type event does not lock you out of class then what the point? if people can come in dungeon as a class then there no point in jobs. if they do lock it then i agree that be nice and leves? really people still do leves? i been partying and only do leves for marks/small gil.

@ereskigal it would for a very long time lol

Yes we directly jump from LV50 to LV100 so we Black Mages get Convert and Refresh D:!

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Agreed, more pointless grinding isn't content. It's artificial lengthening of current content, it's stupid. We already have 18 (19 including sentinel) classes to level up, adding another 7 with no reason would just be ridiculous.

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and doing the same dungeon 500times to gear all your 50s is content for you? i mean if you get max level within 2-1month and do dungeon for months at end even if they add 1-2 every 2months that mean you have to get the new gear over and over again. I agree i don't want to level up 1-50 x8 times but there really noting else to do then just leves,party,dungeon, pointless sidequest with no real plot or good storyline. I guess i'm being picky i know this game would turn out great in about 1year more but right now it seem there noting to do but level.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

and doing the same dungeon 500times to gear all your 50s is content for you? i mean if you get max level within 2-1month and do dungeon for months at end even if they add 1-2 every 2months that mean you have to get the new gear over and over again. I agree i don't want to level up 1-50 x8 times but there really noting else to do then just leves,party,dungeon, pointless sidequest with no real plot or good storyline. I guess i'm being picky i know this game would turn out great in about 1year more but right now it seem there noting to do but level.

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and ranking up is content to you? it seems you are also under the impression that they are not also adding in more content to do.

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Originally Posted by Kyra

Im not playing no crappy harp-bow Ranger/bard hybrid. There goes my favorite class.

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Funny enough, in just about any other multi tiered class MMO Ranger/Archer is almost always turning into a Bard or Dancer (depending on gender). FFXIV actually ruined it originally.