New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

As a fairly new player, I really don't see the big deal with this. I will complete the story up to 50 and play the game that I purchased. Games have always had classes that had prerequisites, such as the Death Knight in WoW or any of the single players games that unlock additional characters upon defeating the game the first time. There's plenty of jobs for new players to choose from atm, having those three gated behind the story is good, imo. It gives new players something to look forward to.

OK. What alot of you people that like this content being gated behind story don't seem to understand is that the "story" was being experienced by most of the player base at around the same time. What does that mean? It meant we didn't have to wait as long as new players do now just to join any duty before lvl 50. When I started, my main job was Monk. I only waited for a dungeon for 30+ min only about twice and I started almost 1 1/2 yrs ago, I think thats about a year to maybe 2 yrs after this game came out. Now, I have to wait forever just to do dungeons for any other job thats dps. Its not fair to tell new players to play all the old stuff that you need others to play with just to advance story when a majority of the player base don't need that element. And guess what? If you are supporting SE "gating" these new jobs behind completing the story just to unlock, you are supporting SE making you all grind using old content that you are not interested in anymore because if the new people need the old content to get to the goods, and the content is locked behind having additional players in order to complete it, how do you think they will ensure that the new players can get through the story without being stuck because there isn't enough people to do it with? Wake up people.
If the jobs are available without completing story first, so what? How does that affect you? Classes and jobs were not gated behind the story as of today. You didn't need the story to select class/job, you didn't need story to switch jobs, you didn't need story to start the game at all. As far as the class/jobs are concerned, they actually had their own story. It wasn't "gated" by finishing the whole game before you could use any class/job. Now yes, the "jobs" were gated behind getting their respective classes to lvl 15 and 30, but that wasn't "gated" behind the story. Also, SE is apparently getting away from the class/job system. So why even bring up an old system thats obsolete anyways. The only thing that should be "gated" behind completion of the story is the story and maybe gear associated with bosses that can only be accessed through advancing the story. But the jobs never have been gated by the story and it would be foolish of SE to start doing it now.

Also, Im so tired of people trying to put a definite amount of time it should take a new person to advance through the game. Everybody plays at a different pace and not everyone has the same amount of time as someone else to put into the game. Most of you saying that it should take only a week or a month to get to endgame are not accurate. Thats only an opinion. Nothing in this game says that I have to be as fast as everyone else to get to end. Thats a good way to turn off casual players from even starting a game if you tell them that they have to put in x many hours a day for x many days to enjoy the game. Just stop it. SE is a business. If you want to increase profits, you have to get people to buy your product. And the more people that are not buying, the more people you are not profiting from.

I want this game to survive. For that to happen in this day and age, we need to have something for everyone. As long as everybody can play and enjoy the game, why would I care if so and so just joined the game last week but can play with DRK? I say good! Thats another tank that will decrease queue times. It benefits me more than hurt me. This game is not a competition. If you want a competition, go do PvP. But this is PvE. Everyone has their own story in this game. What someone else does has minimal effect on your "story".

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Originally Posted by Jazzlix

As a fairly new player, I really don't see the big deal with this. I will complete the story up to 50 and play the game that I purchased. Games have always had classes that had prerequisites, such as the Death Knight in WoW or any of the single players games that unlock additional characters upon defeating the game the first time. There's plenty of jobs for new players to choose from atm, having those three gated behind the story is good, imo. It gives new players something to look forward to.

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Blizzard has stated over and over that the Death Knight gating was a mistake looking back, that is why they have never repeated it. Monk was not gated in the MoP expansion.

As an Au Ra our gear will be the one from Yugi from lv 1 until level 50 and with lv 51 we get gear that show our face.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

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What I'm tired of is people crying doom and gloom over every bloody decision the devs make.... heaven forbid you have to work towards something in an RPG. If they called these "Advanced Jobs" would you people then be ok with it?

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Originally Posted by Felis

As an Au Ra our gear will be the one from Yugi from lv 1 until level 50 and with lv 51 we get gear that show our face.

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And after 3.0 you wont be able to go to any of the old zones, except Coerthas central highlands. Because your a fugitive. Otherwise the story won't make sense.

EDIT: Now that i think about it, that whole scene with Yugiri is gonna be really awkward if your playing as an Au Ra lol!

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

OK. What alot of you people that like this content being gated behind story don't seem to understand is that the "story" was being experienced by most of the player base at around the same time. What does that mean? It meant we didn't have to wait as long as new players do now just to join any duty before lvl 50.

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New players are leveling classes even now through dungeons, fates and questing etc, and it isn't some earth-shattering crisis.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

If you are supporting SE "gating" these new jobs behind completing the story just to unlock, you are supporting SE making you all grind using old content that you are not interested in anymore because if the new people need the old content to get to the goods, and the content is locked behind having additional players in order to complete it, how do you think they will ensure that the new players can get through the story without being stuck because there isn't enough people to do it with? Wake up people.

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Believe it or not there are helpful people in XIV. You speak as if everyone playing the game is out for themselves. It's nothing new that people pick up a very old MMO and have to go through the old content. You are also generalizing everyone for disliking old content. I -personally- do not mind doing old content at all. I don't find any of the content useless by nature. It's annoying when you're -forced- to go back and do it.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

If the jobs are available without completing story first, so what? How does that affect you? Classes and jobs were not gated behind the story as of today. You didn't need the story to select class/job, you didn't need story to switch jobs, you didn't need story to start the game at all. As far as the class/jobs are concerned, they actually had their own story. It wasn't "gated" by finishing the whole game before you could use any class/job. Now yes, the "jobs" were gated behind getting their respective classes to lvl 15 and 30, but that wasn't "gated" behind the story. Also, SE is apparently getting away from the class/job system. So why even bring up an old system thats obsolete anyways. The only thing that should be "gated" behind completion of the story is the story and maybe gear associated with bosses that can only be accessed through advancing the story. But the jobs never have been gated by the story and it would be foolish of SE to start doing it now.

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I don't think anyone is saying that people obtaining jobs without completing the story first affects them in any way. Only that a lot of people are saying it just make sense to do so because it follows that story. Again, as brand new adventurer, how do you get dropped off in Gridania/Uldah/Lominsa and suddenly able to waltz into Ishgard with no issue? It doesn't play out right. Even some of the stuff that you have early access to...Mounts, Cosmetics, etc. You can't use because it's locked behind story. But no one's complaining about the new players having to do story quests for that. So what's the difference here? The other classes and jobs weren't gated behind story because...well, honestly, there was no possible way TO gate them. They're all in the starting cities. You have access to these cities regardless of your job, level and story progression. I can get behind Au'Ra being playable from the get go because the story doesn't acknowledge your race IIRC. So you're still WoL setting out for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Also, Im so tired of people trying to put a definite amount of time it should take a new person to advance through the game. Everybody plays at a different pace and not everyone has the same amount of time as someone else to put into the game. Most of you saying that it should take only a week or a month to get to endgame are not accurate. Thats only an opinion. Nothing in this game says that I have to be as fast as everyone else to get to end. Thats a good way to turn off casual players from even starting a game if you tell them that they have to put in x many hours a day for x many days to enjoy the game. Just stop it. SE is a business. If you want to increase profits, you have to get people to buy your product. And the more people that are not buying, the more people you are not profiting from. .

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These are just typical numbers and data gathered by the player base. People saying that it takes a week to a month to reach end game(by end game I assume BCoB at least) isn't far from the truth, but this is based on an average frequent player. Obviously, there are going to be factors where others will take longer because of RL issues and all, but the majority has deemed and shown that these statistics are correct. It's not an opinion. It's a fact supported by many players. Also no one is going out the way to say "Better make time otherwise you're going to fall behind" to players. I'm not even sure where you're pulling this from. Any player picking up an MMO should be aware things are going to take time if they want to get up to speed. Especially if the game has been out for a while.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

I want this game to survive. For that to happen in this day and age, we need to have something for everyone. As long as everybody can play and enjoy the game, why would I care if so and so just joined the game last week but can play with DRK? I say good! Thats another tank that will decrease queue times. It benefits me more than hurt me. This game is not a competition. If you want a competition, go do PvP. But this is PvE. Everyone has their own story in this game. What someone else does has minimal effect on your "story"

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The game is FAR from being on its deathbed. Like seriously....Heavensward is only going to push that bill further no matter how you look at it. Though I don't see how exactly the following comment applies. The original population is going to be flooding the queues with the new jobs, so the queues are going to be short regardless if new players have access to the job or not. This game can be whatever it wants to people. It may not be a competition for you, but it can be a competition to someone else. Everyone does have their own story, but how they -play- that story does actually -affect- your enjoyment.

So what happens when SE comes out with the 4.0 expansion and lock Jobs behind another set of plot? Pretty sure new players (and possibly current) would not be okay with that.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Everyone does have their own story, but how they -play- that story does actually -affect- your enjoyment.

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A darn shame 2.55 ignores that fact...

This is a big deal? I've been playing for 3 months now and have managed to complete the entire main scenario questline, have gotten to i100, and gotten my weapon to i100. I usually work 5 days of the week from 8-3:30, and have managed to do this... It was a bit of hard work, but it definitely wasn't that big of a deal. Don't be lazy and expect to faceroll through all the content in 1 week. This is an MMORPG, it's a long term game, not a single-player RPG.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

Don't be lazy and expect to faceroll through all the content in 1 week. This is an MMORPG, it's a long term game, not a single-player RPG.

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Funny party about this is when a single player RPG was able to be face rolled that it got so much flak for it. Hi2uFinalfantasyXIII.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Funny party about this is when a single player RPG was able to be face rolled that it got so much flak for it. Hi2uFinalfantasyXIII.

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Really? Never seen that as a complaint for XIII before.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Really? Never seen that as a complaint for XIII before.

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You never seen the complaint that people could just Auto Battle to victory? I see it -all the time-. :x

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

You never seen the complaint that people could just Auto Battle to victory? I see it -all the time-. :x

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Nah, most complaints I see about the game are about the lack of open world, linear maps and exploration/interaction. Can't really imagine ever auto battling my way to victory over an Long Gui or an Ochu (granted only 2 of these exists), maybe for the main story fights but even then you would need to plan your paradigms accordingly.

FF13 had a lot of issues. Turning Shiva into a freakin' motorcycle was one of them!!!!

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

You never seen the complaint that people could just Auto Battle to victory? I see it -all the time-. :x

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Odd that, I specifically remember having to shift a lot to get top ranks on those erm, hunt thingies, and adamantoises.
I don't recall any part of the game where I could just Auto Battle any boss fight (other then the very last one) oO

honestly i dont have a problem with them being locked behind story content since they are starting at level 30... personally id prefer they start level 1 = =

really think they are gonna make it so easy to access DRK etc early in the game when it starts at level 30?? o here u go get level 10 unlock job change system and we will give u a free level 30 to get u started *facepalm* personally imo they should have had the guilds in coethas starting from level 1 but then every1 would be whinging they dont wanna level 1-30 lmao

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Odd that, I specifically remember having to shift a lot to get top ranks on those erm, hunt thingies, and adamantoises.
I don't recall any part of the game where I could just Auto Battle any boss fight (other then the very last one) oO

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People who complained about auto-battle either didn't get that far or didn't care about ranking. But it was a complaint I saw somewhat regularly at the time.

The only time I heard complaints about "Auto-battle" was for XII, and even then you 1.) Couldn't get the gambits for that till near the end, and 2.) The only fight where you could do so and not have to do anything at all was one area to get lots of exp, otherwise you had to take some control yourself. For all the complaints about XIII I've heard, auto-battle ain't one.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

This is a big deal? I've been playing for 3 months now and have managed to complete the entire main scenario questline, have gotten to i100, and gotten my weapon to i100. I usually work 5 days of the week from 8-3:30, and have managed to do this... It was a bit of hard work, but it definitely wasn't that big of a deal. Don't be lazy and expect to faceroll through all the content in 1 week. This is an MMORPG, it's a long term game, not a single-player RPG.

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It has nothing to do with being lazy for many of us. I have several jobs at 50, I could complete the story very fast, but I don't want to. I want to experience the story on a job I think is fun and I am not enjoying any of the current jobs. Preferably while gaining experience on the job I am doing it on. I am happy the new jobs start at 30 though because leveling this game outside of leveling with the storyline is amongst the worst leveling experiences I've ever had in an MMORPG. Doubly so for 5-30 ish.

I am not even someone who minds gated content, but gating jobs behind the main storyline is just a poor way of doing it with no good reason for it. I will say exactly what you did, this is an MMORPG, don't expect lore to be a good reason for anything like this considering there are so many workarounds as well as the fact that every other adventurer will be running around in every part of the world as the new jobs.

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

I am happy the new jobs start at 30 though because leveling this game outside of leveling with the storyline is amongst the worst leveling experiences I've ever had in an MMORPG. Doubly so for 5-30 ish.

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Guessing then that you've never played EQ, AC, DAoC, FFXI, or even worse, any of the many Korean MMO's that require pure grinding to get anything accomplished.

The first few MMO's I listed all required you to lvl up primarly through just sitting at a camp of mobs, and killing them as they respawned, you'd be lucky to get 10% of the xp you needed to lvl up from doing all the quests at your level available to you. They also took a LONG time to lvl up, with most people taking 8-12 months to reach max lvl for the first time.

Edit: Lvling in this game is so trivial it's hardly worth mentioning it as an accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

And after 3.0 you wont be able to go to any of the old zones, except Coerthas central highlands. Because your a fugitive. Otherwise the story won't make sense.

EDIT: Now that i think about it, that whole scene with Yugiri is gonna be really awkward if your playing as an Au Ra lol!

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You should talk more to NPCs. The majority are behind us and the syndicate is too afraid to go against us in the puplic. So long you stand away from empty alleys you should be save ^^

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

I am not even someone who minds gated content, but gating jobs behind the main storyline is just a poor way of doing it with no good reason for it. I will say exactly what you did, this is an MMORPG, don't expect lore to be a good reason for anything like this considering there are so many workarounds as well as the fact that every other adventurer will be running around in every part of the world as the new jobs.

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it's a reason itself, because this jobs are into a city we can't reach until we complete the story explaining of why we can enter this city. is not gated poorly, its link to the lore, the jobs we will get acces are directly link to ishgarde.... ignoring this and giving this jobs to anyone that haven't the right to step into ishgarde is bad in too many way.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's a reason itself, because this jobs are into a city we can't reach until we complete the story explaining of why we can enter this city. is not gated poorly, its link to the lore, the jobs we will get acces are directly link to ishgarde.... ignoring this and giving this jobs to anyone that haven't the right to step into ishgarde is bad in too many way.

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I'm just hoping this isn't like the classes/jobs issue where these jobs have a marked stat increase and mandatory utility over the other jobs.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's a reason itself, because this jobs are into a city we can't reach until we complete the story explaining of why we can enter this city. is not gated poorly, its link to the lore, the jobs we will get acces are directly link to ishgarde.... ignoring this and giving this jobs to anyone that haven't the right to step into ishgarde is bad in too many way.

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The thing is, the new jobs are in the city of Ishgard because the devs decided to PUT them in Ishgard. They didn't have to. They CHOSE to. They could have put Astrologean in the Observatorium, Machinist in Mor Dhona or Limsa, and Dark Knight pretty much anywhere. They could even have put them in one of the other new areas, assuming that those new areas can be accessed without passing through Ishgard.

The devs had every opportunity to make the jobs accessible; they didn't have to be gated behind the entire 2.x storyline and 90+ ilvls worth of gear, but for some reason the devs decided that was a good idea.

I argue that this was NOT a good decision to make. If you want to sell more copies of the expansion, you need to include stuff that both new and current players want to have. Right now, the expansion isn't offering much to new players, and in particular alternate jobs are one of the biggest possible selling points for new players. Less incentive for new players to buy the expansion means less sales. Less sales means reduced revenue. Reduced revenue means we current players get less love since there's less money to spend improving the game for us. Everyone suffers from the decision.

It is certainly possible to use lore to defend the gating of the new jobs - but the devs WRITE the lore, and they could have written it in such a way that the jobs could have been accessible. But they didn't. I'd like to know why.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I'm just hoping this isn't like the classes/jobs issue where these jobs have a marked stat increase and mandatory utility over the other jobs.

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I seem to recall the devs saying the HW content would have skills and abilities nearly mandatory for completing new content. But they don't need new jobs for that, it can easily be crammed into the remaining 10 levels and inbetween job quests.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I argue that this was NOT a good decision to make.

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Actually we do only know, they decided to do it this way. We do not know, what is their reason to do it this way. So before we can say, which arguments are better, we need to know their arguments. Actually we don't.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

FF13 had a lot of issues. Turning Shiva into a freakin' motorcycle was one of them!!!!

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Just wanna hop onto the 13 train real quick.
The main issue of 13 was the "one way street" gameplay with lackof exploration, it was almost impossible to miss anything before the ending chapters where you gained more freedom, and that's not saying much
and you're stuck with the same team until the end still...
After replaying it myself, I've gotten bored a bit because of well...the game essentially played itself...when I said played itself...that game
is cutscence haven, you guys think Prae is riddled with scene's...you have no idea on 13. Literally you could not go maybe 5 to 10 minutes without being in a CS.
Having it now on Steam, it's a...I believe 60gb game? Because of the amount of CS's they were.
The battle system were one of the lesser complaints....You basically had to switch Paradigm's on time. [I loved it...I mean I LOVED it.] which was fun to me. More fast pace.
The summons were a hit or miss: Shiva was very cool...She had the better of the designs if not the best, and being sisters was cool, motorcycle got me nodding my head a bit...
Odin was a nice twist. It's basically Odin and Slepnair in one. Alexander, my favourite was decent...but the rest were horrible. They tried to do something different so you can applaud them for trying...
but never do it again...unless you wanna do the Odin thing again, now he was the best design in terms of "vehicles" because of what I said above about him.

13-2 was great! 13-3 is the worst FF game I've ever played. Sorry I actually liked 13 so I wanted to have my 2 cents. ^^;;

Why are we so worried about how many copies SE sells? If everyone here does their part, the health of the game is a non-issue. If you really want to hit a gated job at the expansion... I guess you should turn off Hello Kitty Island Adventures and get on Steps of Faith.

I swear, so many busy-bodies afraid someone else is going to miss out on something. Enough championing ethereal entities already.

This is what it is, so this is how we play it. Total non-factor to most of us.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

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If you want to not care about the game and the direction it has taken with the first expansion (which, for an MMO fan, should always be a big deal. It is to me.), that's your decision. No reason to be so nasty to people who do.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The thing is, the new jobs are in the city of Ishgard because the devs decided to PUT them in Ishgard. They didn't have to. They CHOSE to. They could have put Astrologean in the Observatorium, Machinist in Mor Dhona or Limsa, and Dark Knight pretty much anywhere. They could even have put them in one of the other new areas, assuming that those new areas can be accessed without passing through Ishgard.

The devs had every opportunity to make the jobs accessible; they didn't have to be gated behind the entire 2.x storyline and 90+ ilvls worth of gear, but for some reason the devs decided that was a good idea.

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Thank you. I have been intending to point this out all night last night, but couldn't because I had reached my posts-per-day limit (seriously SE, why is this still a thing? I'm using a lv50 account on these boards..). To say "it makes sense because Ishgard is locked" is a dead point, because the NPCs, de facto, did not HAVE to be in Ishgard, just as Dragoon was not in there.

It's not too hard to put an NPC out of the gate and say something applicable at any point of the story regardless of the PC's MSQ progress, such as:

"The current situation with the Horde is calling for drastic measures, such as recruiting despicable sellswords and adventurers such as yourself. I do not expect the devotion of an Ishgardian soldier from you, but perhaps you could still prove yourself useful. Take this sword, hone your skill, and return to me for when you'll be ready to do our bidding."

Now that's not hard, is it? Yet the developers decided not to, and after 50 pages we still haven't been told why.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Now that's not hard, is it? Yet the developers decided not to, and after 50 pages we still haven't been told why.

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Why does it matter so much? Some people would question everything about a game's design, it seems.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Why does it matter so much? Some people would question everything about a game's design, it seems.

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I feel like if you bought HW, you should have access to the job's. Essentially, HW is useless unless you played 2.55 story finished, the only thing newbies would get out the box is the CE items
and Au'Ra race...unless they change it somehow. Because when you think about imagine 5.0...you get I dunno...SAM or something, you can't get it until you finished 2.0-4.0 story.
That's too long. I just don't like the fact it's stuck behind the story. It's fine now since it's easy to run the story, but later on I don't think they should do this anymore.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Why does it matter so much? Some people would question everything about a game's design, it seems.

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That's the point of caring for a game. I'm not sure you've realized, but this is a big turnaround on how FFXIV has been up to this point. It has always been newbie-friendly (again, I'll bring up the example of being able to go to mor dhona as a lv1 character to get the black bikini from the NPC), exploration is very doable at any level, thanks to the monsters' reset feature, and things such as sprint. The three jobs released before HQ, were also newbie-friendly, with classes available at level 1 (arcanist) and 10 (rogue), and the jobs did not require MSQ progression, even when they could've (Ninja).

The turn-around decision they've made with Heavensward's jobs is mind-boggling and as a costumer I'd like to know what's up, what took the developers to make this decision. I too am suspecting this is being done with the idea to "ease" the servers by gating jobs in an unaccessible area to part of the playerbase, but for as long as we won't get an answer, we won't really know. It is very certainly a questionable decision that to me and others deserves some insight.

As I've said many and many pages ago, to question or criticize is not a sign of hate, it's a sign of care. Defending blindly SE's decisions just because "it's done, accept it" is to me only a sign of lazyness or general uninterest, and I mean, fine by me. Some people will check labels on the food they buy, others will just hoard the cart without looking past the price. But there is absolutely no reason to tell to the first group of people that "NO, YOU CAN'T ASK.".

Pulling things from a hat here - so don't get rage mode on me.

SE has said during the PAX that it does take them one* year to make a new class.

Perhaps they didn't want everyone being able to get it from the get-go. They wanted the class to stay "fresh."

That or MAYBE, maybe...

Because people have been asking about having some sort of reward for being in ARR for so long...(They have been asking for some sort of LEGACY thing ((Legacy gets a cheaper bill/ Tattoo/ chocobo.) ....

Maybe the gated classes are the gift to those players who have been around for ARR.
Maybe....

But don't go apeshit on this. I'm just brewing ideas is all.

Here is Legacy Campaign: (new players prob don't know about this.)
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Legacy_Campaign
http://www.ffxivinfo.com/service.php

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

I feel like if you bought HW, you should have access to the job's. Essentially, HW is useless unless you played 2.55 story finished, the only thing newbies would get out the box is the CE items
and Au'Ra race...unless they change it somehow. Because when you think about imagine 5.0...you get I dunno...SAM or something, you can't get it until you finished 2.0-4.0 story.
That's too long. I just don't like the fact it's stuck behind the story. It's fine now since it's easy to run the story, but later on I don't think they should do this anymore.

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I feel that the people that really wanted to play this game have already picked it up and been playing and people that are now picking it up are just jumping on it cause is the cool thing to play or along that line but that just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

That's the point of caring for a game. I'm not sure you've realized, but this is a big turnaround on how FFXIV has been up to this point. It has always been newbie-friendly

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Always? I'm not sure you realized, but it was not all that newbie friendly in 1.0

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

As I've said many and many pages ago, to question or criticize is not a sign of hate, it's a sign of care. Defending blindly SE's decisions just because "it's done, accept it" is to me only a sign of lazyness or general uninterest, and I mean, fine by me. Some people will check labels on the food they buy, others will just hoard the cart without looking past the price. But there is absolutely no reason to tell to the first group of people that "NO, YOU CAN'T ASK.".

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You have that backwards. I see no point in arguing about this particular thing, as its nowhere near as much of a big deal as you are arguing.
Why you are you blindly attacking SE's decisions when these particular ones have no real effect on the game?


Caring is not the same as arguing about every small detail of a game....

I can be much nastier. I do have my own FC rank for it, and a disclaimer.

That being said: sometimes a little tough love is what the doomsday evangelists need.

52 pages of back and forth over conjecture over strategic planning decisions seems pointless and engaging in a divisive argument that helps no one.

Without simulation models or even their targeting parameters we have no hope in understanding why. And without the expansion we don't have much of the how.

What if they decided to make unlocking the new classes a big, long adventure? Learning their lore, role, everything the first 30 levels is designed to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Felis

You should talk more to NPCs. The majority are behind us and the syndicate is too afraid to go against us in the puplic. So long you stand away from empty alleys you should be save ^^

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(obligatory spoiler alert)
Npc are not the ruling body of the city state that controls the peacekeepers (brass blades) and the Army (the Flames). We might be the greatest thing since the invention of fire, BUT if the full power of even the brass blades and the crystal braves are brought to bear then there is no way you would live through a shopping trip to Ul'dah or Mor Dhona.
In the story (that is now LORE right?) most of the powerful Scions were overwhelmed and taken down (or at least removed from the story for now), so unless the populace of Ul'dah and Mor Dhona (to a lesser extent perhaps) revolt, we should not be walking freely anywhere in the Thanlan region. Of course if you wish to ignore this then we can ignore this cry that all the new jobs should be locked due to the LORE.

I am reminded of some saying about having a cake and eating it too.

Stop using lore as an excuse to have the jobs gated and leave it at: It was a devs decision.

hmm...

Dunno if this was mentioned before but, at the Marauder's guild, isnt there a flag with 2 guns crossed? There are even NPC downstairs practicing with some muzzles... that could pretty much be the Machinist spot... and would be in Limsa...

For the Astrologian... Coerthas has all these observatory towers, it wouldn't be suprising if they alocate the Astrologian Guild in either Whitebrim, Dragonhead or the Boulderdowns region...

Dark Knight is the one that makes me wonder where will they place it... Odin's house?

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

hmm...

Dunno if this was mentioned before but, at the Marauder's guild, isnt there a flag with 2 guns crossed? There are even NPC downstairs practicing with some muzzles... that could pretty much be the Machinist spot... and would be in Limsa...

For the Astrologian... Coerthas has all these observatory towers, it wouldn't be suprising if they alocate the Astrologian Guild in either Whitebrim, Dragonhead or the Boulderdowns region...

Dark Knight is the one that makes me wonder where will they place it... Odin's house?

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I agree there are many ways to implement the new jobs out of Ishgard, however the building you mentioned in Limsa is already established in the lore as the musketeer's guild (it used to be where the Arcanist's Guild is now, but it was moved in Coral Tower), complete with guildmaster (Rayner) and practictioners below. Machinist is a whole other thing, that I could've seen more fitting at the Garlond Ironworks workshop in Mor Dhona, maybe.