SP nerfed. We were lied to.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I just partied with some friends levels 36-41 at the Ixalia camp near halitali last night and was making 301-360 sp per kill.

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Oh God, what is this back to grinding mobs like FFXI in 2011? Good job dev team.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i officially call this era of FFXIV the "Thanalan dust bowl era" where we have more modes of messed up targeting than we do ways to level.

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lol. sad but true.

Its sad really, they make one part of the game some what fun, I'll give them that (the dungeons are fun) but they go and completely ruin solo play that they got us used to.

They've been making changes that right now sucks and may not seem to make sense but it's likely the SP "nerf" is just another step towards a bigger change in how the game is played.

Clearly they now want leves to be mostly for solo play, most likely due to how boring everyone has said it is. It's repetitive and tiring and if they didn't work towards a better, funner way to level, the game would never progress into something better.

Hopefully Yoshi or a rep can shed some light on why they decided to change it.

i just dont get why questing (leve quests) cant be left in tact for soloers with lesser than awesome gear due to leve quest drops and dungeons for grouping up for SP bonuses and uber gear PLUS learning to play your class better than a soloer due to it being more hardcore.
soloing should be slower than grouping ofcourse, but its now impossible to level soloing levequests. this leaves grouping a 100% requirement - hopefully not for every aspect of the game though :/

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Oh God, what is this back to grinding mobs like FFXI in 2011? Good job dev team.



lol. sad but true.

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Ive been thinkin for the longest that they were going to go the way of FFXI-2 in many ways...

No one will do these post 1.18 levee with teleport restrictions. If solo play was good, why change it? All the complainers were party and clans. Like always, they want to monopolize the fuxking game. Just leave what's good alone and create content for them. Like instanced ultra hard dungeons that I don't care. Those people are kids and don't work and have lots of free time. If the game was all about party and clans I wouldn't have spent $200 for that. Why not when you make a party, put 10x more mp usage, to please the whinners into thinking about mp management. Leave the solo duo the way it was before. In the end, let's see who's right. 70% or 30% of your userbase SE.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i just dont get why questing (leve quests) cant be left in tact for soloers with lesser than awesome gear due to leve quest drops and dungeons for grouping up for SP bonuses and uber gear PLUS learning to play your class better than a soloer due to it being more hardcore.
soloing should be slower than grouping ofcourse, but its now impossible to level soloing levequests. this leaves grouping a 100% requirement - hopefully not for every aspect of the game though :/

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I personally think that even SE doesnt know this right know.

IMO sp doesn't seem so bad. Yeah, it's slower then before, and for the hardcore person it's gonna be alot slower.

I'm getting 50k+ a leve reset now in about 2 hours. I was getting 120k+ leve linking in 4 hours. I started @41 and estimated around 15 leve reset to get to 50 (only thru leves) which is around 700k sp. That's 22 days roughly leves only. There's 1.7mill sp in 1-50. So it'd take around 2 months to get one job from 1-50 with leves only.

I'm doing SP parties as well getting 360 sp a kill. Today alone I did 2 hours of leves for 52.5k and couple hours of grind SP for 46k SP for 98.5k SP total. I think that's plenty fast, and not much of a gimp. Alot of mob spawns changed so I just think the new SP grind spots need to be found leve's aren't gonna get you 50 quick anymore.

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Originally Posted by Aldarin

Pre-1.18
10 mobs/leve, 720sp per mob = 7200sp/leve.

sp gained from 3 leves: 21600sp

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Only with a few select leves, all the others gave MUCH less. So the average was much lower.

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20 mobs/behest, 400sp/mob = 8000sp/behest

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Almost impossible to get more than 200 SP per mob in behest past level 35 (and it's very, very rare even past level 25). 400 is Sci-fi.

Looks like someone's on to warp the facts to try (and fail) to back Kensei's false claims.

Funny how it's someone else that didn't even get past the first half of the leveling curve.

SP is obviously a problem now. If it wasn't a problem then this thread would of died ages ago.

Well i noticed people quoting yoshi's last letter have missed a part yoshi tuings would be mucked up until the future patches and balancing is done. This is a work in progress and we are being asked to be patient as new and different things are being put into the game over ghe coming summer patches. So yes leve's give less sp but as other activities give sp now we will have more options for progressions but not all the changes have been put in. The world is becoming more live and deadily and leves are being changed mor dungeons coming more level balanced content is in the works.

So for now we have endure this change period, we asked for these changes and they are being put in for our enjoyment for when the game become pay to play.

Sorry for the grammar typing from iphone its a bitch.

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Originally Posted by Nexadus

SP is obviously a problem now. If it wasn't a problem then this thread would of died ages ago.

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SP is a problem only for those that are too lazy to look for new ways of leveling other than the mindbogglingly rpeatitive monotony they have done so far (behest, afk 15 minutes, behest, afk 15 minutes, behest, afk 45 minutes because someone else got your place in it, behest...). Unfortunately there are a lot of those.
Luckily, they don't need to be encouraged.

Cause killing marmots near an aetheryte.... or resting for minutes between each kill for mp - that be fun and efficient leveling, amirite?

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Cause killing marmots near an aetheryte.... or resting for minutes between each kill for mp - that be fun and efficient leveling, amirite?

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Marmots aren't exactly the best grind mobs out there, and if you need to rest between each kill for minutes, you need to seriously look into your playstyle, because it's simply no good.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Oh God, what is this back to grinding mobs like FFXI in 2011? Good job dev team.

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Yeah, especially concerning since the XI dev team has moved away from "punish the playerbase" to "hey, playing a game should be fun"

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Yeah, especially concerning since the XI dev team has moved away from "punish the playerbase" to "hey, playing a game should be fun"

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Someone has missed the fact that guildleves and behests are nothing else than grinding mobs.

Don't want to grind mobs? Do quests and raids.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Marmots aren't exactly the best grind mobs out there, and if you need to rest between each kill for minutes, you need to seriously look into your playstyle, because it's simply no good.

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I guess as a mage I should just auto attack things to death, instead of using spells, right? Nevermind that I can't even get enough mp back from a siphon anymore for a higher tier cure.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Someone has missed the fact that guildleves and behests are nothing else than grinding mobs.

Don't want to grind mobs? Do quests and raids.

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Ditto. I actually want to go quest hunting now just because they give us SP now. Of course the amount is usually based on the rank you should be upon undertaking it(like the loots), but yeah, they're nice.

SP is not a problem unless you're a weak player, and haven't bothered to explore for new beastmen camps. I was soloing Amalj'aa for 390sp/kill. Hmmm.... looks like soloing isn't nerfed, and what 390sp/kill, is that bad? Am I getting my sp nerfed at 390sp per kill solo?

Seriously ppl, learn how to maximize your sp gain before you start whining. Go fight something hard by yourself. If you can't solo something 6+ levels above you, you're doing it wrong. It's not SE's fault if you can't handle challenges.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Someone has missed the fact that guildleves and behests are nothing else than grinding mobs.

Don't want to grind mobs? Do quests and raids.

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Man, I am not even going to bother acknowledging your backwards arguments after this post. You're clearly willing to blindly defend this game no matter how broken it is for people who are in a different situation than you.

Do you have an active Linkshell?
Do you have 1 or more rank 50 classes?

If the answer to both those questions is "yes" then you don't have a clue what it is like for people who don't have those two things.

I'm glad you're enjoying the game and that with the resources you have (which not everyone else does) grinding is enjoyable. But please stop pretending that your experience is "right" and everyone who doesn't share that experience is "wrong."

There can be no balance without acknowledging that there are many kinds of players, each with their own preferred playstyles and limitations or lack thereof.

Simply telling someone they are playing wrong for not enjoying the game, is ignoring glaring flaws with the game. If you can't see that someone who has been logging in alone once in awhile to grind SP doesn't have the same resources as someone who is rank 50 on several classes in an active LS, then just don't bother to comment.

Cause guess what, if this game ever is going to get new players they will be more like the former example than you. If the game is not appealing to someone who has spent the greater part of a year trying to enjoy it, if it is punishing on people who don't have a large established LS and multiple high rank jobs - it won't be enjoyable to the new players this game desperately needs.

while ya guys bitching around in here, im on my way to 50 in few weeks :3

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Originally Posted by Speeral

Well i noticed people quoting yoshi's last letter have missed a part yoshi tuings would be mucked up until the future patches and balancing is done. This is a work in progress and we are being asked to be patient as new and different things are being put into the game over ghe coming summer patches. So yes leve's give less sp but as other activities give sp now we will have more options for progressions but not all the changes have been put in. The world is becoming more live and deadily and leves are being changed mor dungeons coming more level balanced content is in the works.

So for now we have endure this change period, we asked for these changes and they are being put in for our enjoyment for when the game become pay to play.

Sorry for the grammar typing from iphone its a bitch.

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I understand this, it's PRETTY obvious this patch has issues, and the fact he announces this means it probably wasn't ready to be sent out into the field. This was a goood patch, good content, /new/ content, lots of excitement.

But I feel like instead of taking the time with these new adjustments, they made the boss content for the dungeons with the new auto-attack/-stamina in mind, and even though it wasn't finished they still released it. Really bad judgement. Content is fine, but this just makes playing all the more unappealing to be perfectly honest. I was bored before, now I'm just put off by the buggy auto-attack claiming system that for me doesn't work half the time if I already have my weapon out.
They should have adjusted the bosses for these dungeons to comply with current (now past) battle systems in place, and should have done further tweaks to their incomplete auto-attack system.

ffs we don't even have an attack button. I feel like that's almost necessary? God, what if I hit enter by mistake while targeting something. Which I have done trying to type to my friends. I wanted to try out the AM spells, couldn't get one off because of auto-target nonsense, shortly after casting the spell I kicked its teeth in. :/

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

while ya guys bitching around in here, im on my way to 50 in few weeks :3

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Yay for you! Keep at it!

500 replies to an obviously change in SP gain, what's this discussion about?
SP didn't get nerfed, instead they enhanched the SP from some enemies like the tribe while grinding, and totally killed leves off.
still, the current amount of SP u can grind in 2 hours, doesn't equal the amount of SP you could get from leve linking.

i don't like it, but what the fuck did we expect?
this is SE after all we're talking about.

i'll enjoy my next days in a single camp, grinding for hours to get my levels now, sure is more exciting than doing leves with my ls mates, yay.

/sarcasm

Yes, I sure am glad we are seeing design principles that were fail in 2002 be applied to a game in 2011

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Man, I am not even going to bother acknowledging your backwards arguments after this post.

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There's nothing "backwards" in stating the obvious. Killing mobs and nothing else is grinding. Behest and Guildleves are nothing else than that.

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You're clearly willing to blindly defend this game no matter how broken it is for people who are in a different situation than you.

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I simply have the ability to assess the quality of a game, which quite obviously you lack. Not whining like a kid because of flawed perception and tunnel vision has nothing to do with "blindly defending". So does knowing the meaning of the verb "broken", which obviously you don't.

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Do you have an active Linkshell?

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You know, active linkshells have open to everyone. If you don't have one only two things come to mind. Either you're antisocial, in which case single player games may be more to your liking, or your whining has become so unpleasant on yourserver that no linkshell wants you. In this case, you reap what you sow.

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Do you have 1 or more rank 50 classes?

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Makes ABSOLUTELY no difference. This is an open ended game. Not many people stop at their first 50. I'm currently actively leveling Marauder and Conjurer, which are a LONG way off 50.

If any, it's harder than for one that's now leveling his first 50, because i alrady did all the previously implemented quests and story quests, getting squat for them, while new players can get SP from them now, and a lot of it.

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If the answer to both those questions is "yes" then you don't have a clue what it is like for people who don't have those two things.

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Unfortunately for your argument, the only ones that don't have a clue are the ones like you and kensei that didn't yet experience even the first half of the leveling curve and think they can teach people that experienced it fully multiple times.

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There can be no balance without acknowledging that there are many kinds of players, each with their own preferred playstyles and limitations or lack thereof.

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Sorry to burst a big bubble, but encouraging mindless repetition like doing behest over and over and nothing else is simply bad game design.

because grinding the same mob over and over again is not mindless repetition?

Yeah, okay.

At least leves have a little variety.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

because grinding the same mob over and over again is not mindless repetition?

Yeah, okay.

At least leves have a little variety.

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Just cause you suck at the game dont bring others down

Ah, everyone who has posted in this thread with concerns - never fear! Elkwood has figured out that "we suck" and that is why we feel cheated and lied to.

What a brilliant assessment of the situation. I am guessing that anyone who was brand new picking up the game - they wouldn't "suck" at all, and so they would TOTALLY LOVE the game the way it is.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

because grinding the same mob over and over again is not mindless repetition?

Yeah, okay.

At least leves have a little variety.

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The problem with your flawed argument (interesting that you couldn't reply to the whole rest of my post, probably because you're out of argument to defend your indifensible and illogical position), is that the current system encourages the player to do EVERYTHING. Behest, Guildleves, Group Grinding, Quests, Story quests, dungeons... Each one of those activities gives good rewards, and the cooldowns mean that constant SP gain requires or at least encourages variation.

And that has a LOT more variety than leves and behest alone.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Ah, everyone who has posted in this thread with concerns

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There's a big and broad difference between "concerns" and mindless, irrational whines in denial of any kind of useful information given by others because such information makes the aforementioned whines moot.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Just cause you suck at the game dont bring others down

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this has nothing to do with "bringing others down"
it's obvious that leves atleast gave a meaning to SPing, while grinding is allways the same.

i was spending 2 hours today killing tribes with friends at an outpost, and i feel like not wanting to log in anymore (for the first time since the alpha)

tell me, would it have been so terrible to leave the Leve system as it was untill enough content is there to replace it, and just enhance SP gain from grinding to make it more appealing for those wishing to do more then just wait 36 hrs to gain SP again?

this whole change on the leve system was rushed, and they should have waited for this change untill we had enough other things to enjoy.

but now all we do is grind only, which is ways more terrible then doing leves.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Ah, everyone who has posted in this thread with concerns - never fear! Elkwood has figured out that "we suck" and that is why we feel cheated and lied to.

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I didn't see a 'we' in there, he said you.



And to be honest I've trying the alternative ways of getting SP and I haven't done too bad. One quest I did gave me 19k for completion. As I've said, I don't 100% agree with all changes SE makes, but I'm also not gonna complain about the first of three patches that will complete the balancing.

It's not done people. -_-

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Originally Posted by Black_Rose

500 replies to an obviously change in SP gain, what's this discussion about?
SP didn't get nerfed, instead they enhanched the SP from some enemies like the tribe while grinding, and totally killed leves off.
still, the current amount of SP u can grind in 2 hours, doesn't equal the amount of SP you could get from leve linking.

i don't like it, but what the fuck did we expect?
this is SE after all we're talking about.

i'll enjoy my next days in a single camp, grinding for hours to get my levels now, sure is more exciting than doing leves with my ls mates, yay.

/sarcasm

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I agree. I think that the whole idea was to keep the amount of time they expected a player to take to reach rank 50. Yoshi said it was like a couple months or something, if i'm not mistaken. Well, they took off fatigue, but basically made "raptor parties" available to more than just rank 45 players. This is because the beastmen that they put all over have the same base sp as raptors.

What they seemed to do to leves is keep the same base sp, but without Aspect (sort of). This is because Aspect used to be +50% bonus on top of leve link bonus (max @ +150%, pre-1.18). But now aspect seems to add +50% to the Rewarded SP at the end.

The bonus at the end, however, seems totally disproportionate in comparison to difference in leve difficulty and difference in mob-player rank difference. Which basically means that lower rank leves suck in comparison to higher rank. Basically a reward for simply Being high rank, much like there's a sp bonus for being low rank. So the swelling point then becomes the mid level range.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

encourages the player to do EVERYTHING.

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LOL!
No it doesn't. It encourages the player to do group grinding... quests and story quests are a one time thing. You get em done on one class and BOOM no more of that.
So when you want to rank up a second class all you have left is group grinding because it blows behest and leves out of the water like leves used to do to group grinding.

All that's been done is they turned the game on its head. Instead of one, you do the other... only this time it's the more boring one.

Yeah, I'm sorry but 1 time only quests do not equal a comprehensive system of gaining SP. I mean seriously, it would have done no harm to ensure that leves gave the same amount (to a solo player who wasn't failing them on purpose) after the patch as before it.

I want to put it out there - I have never purposely failed a leve. I am betting that the people telling me how much I suck used that exploit as their primary leveling method prior to this patch.

I don't see what harm it would have done, especially since Yoshi SPECIFICALLY SAID leves were for soloers - to make sure that soloing a leve as it was intended to be done (not failing it) would give the same SP after the patch as before.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

I didn't see a 'we' in there, he said you.



And to be honest I've trying the alternative ways of getting SP and I haven't done too bad. One quest I did gave me 19k for completion. As I've said, I don't 100% agree with all changes SE makes, but I'm also not gonna complain about the first of three patches that will complete the balancing.

It's not done people. -_-

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That's the thing though. The best we can do now is settle and make due with whatever their rational is. That's a terrible way to bring back the game to competitive standards.

Many of the people defending this patch don't realize that a new player will have a terrible time in the game. If you think SE is gonna keep this free to play forever you have another thing coming. If after the PS3 release the game fails to retain population it will be most likely done.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

I didn't see a 'we' in there, he said you.

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Ah, yet my experience has been the same as several others, so he was implying that we all suck. But thanks for being childish and continuing the litany of personal insults which is all that people who are blindly defending this patch have to offer. I mean, it really enhances the tone of conversation.

52 pages! This proves how big SE failed on their SP system changes. I wish just once they could give us good without stacking a bunch of bad on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Kensei

That's the thing though. The best we can do now is settle and make due with whatever their rational is. That's a terrible way to bring back the game to competitive standards.

Many of the people defending this patch don't realize that a new player will have a terrible time in the game. If you think SE is gonna keep this free to play forever you have another thing coming. If after the PS3 release the game fails to retain population it will be most likely done.

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I am neither defending or opposing this patch due to the pure fact that he did warn everyone that it would be bad between 1.18 and 1.19, and everyone is acting like it's the end of the world. We were warned, I for one will give them the chance to complete this next two patches which will finish the balancing and bring out the jobs.

At that time I will look at the overall balancing and final outcome and make my decision... everyone's wanting this to be the bloody building, but at the moment we have only laid the foundation for the walls to go up.

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Originally Posted by alexi14

52 pages! This proves how big SE failed on their SP system changes. I wish just once they could give us good without stacking a bunch of bad on top of it.

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Did you read the 52 pages? A good half if it is people actually saying that there IS nothing wrong with the SP and that the game is being balanced. This isn't 50+ pages of people agreeing with the OP's comment.