A Little Pain with my Pleasure

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

(Sorry if its been said already, 12 pages of bickering is a lot to go through)

What would the possibility of having a set of servers listed as "Hardcore" it would need to have

- No exp rewards for quests
- Exp loss on death, even de-level
- Animation lock

That should make the "hardcore" crowd happy? Right? If not please add in whatever other features for a "hardcore" version you would need to be satisfied.

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Having a huge ego and a big penis.

I am not hardcore, but damn right you should be penalized for not doing something successfully. It is a game, if there is no consequence for failure then there is no feeling of accomplishment for success.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

When there are harder raids deleveling once will stop the raid because everyone should be equipped with lv 50 gear. Deleveling once you will not be able to equip your best gear and the raid my not meet the DPS check for the boss.

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Then leave the dungeon and start again - kill those trash mobs with no gear and re-level.

We aren't talking about piles and piles of EXP loss here. Enough to feel it if you die over and over, but a few deaths in a dungeon and you're gravy.. No one should be able to sit in the same empty dungeon for 4hrs, repeatedly dying to the final boss until they win.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

(Sorry if its been said already, 12 pages of bickering is a lot to go through)

What would the possibility of having a set of servers listed as "Hardcore" it would need to have

- No exp rewards for quests
- Exp loss on death, even de-level
- Animation lock

That should make the "hardcore" crowd happy? Right? If not please add in whatever other features for a "hardcore" version you would need to be satisfied.

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Wouldn't need to call those 'hardcore servers'...

just call them 'not a blindfolded-hands-behind-my-back-cake-walk-servers'

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Originally Posted by Altena

Then leave the dungeon and start again - kill those trash mobs with no gear and re-level.

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This will frustrate a lot of players, plus you don't know the balancing of exp you get from the trash. Say if you lose 10% exp at lv 50 when dying. Will killing the amount of trash to the boss give you enough exp? It may be enough for only one attempt then you have to reset raid again? Plus the boss may be the 4th boss in the raid so you have to kill all the other bosses again.

Also, speaking frankly - if you die a lot in FFXIV then you are clearly doing something wrong. As with XI, if you are raised the penalty will be less so if you're on a raid, there's really no big worry.

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Originally Posted by EinSoFZ

Also, speaking frankly - if you die a lot in FFXIV then you are clearly doing something wrong. As with XI, if you are raised the penalty will be less so if you're on a raid, there's really no big worry.

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First attempts on bosses you die a lot if there is no strategy that exists. I recall on moogles we probably died like 20 times or more before we came up with a strategy that works. And our linkshell was probably the second LS to kill them on our server.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

First attempts on bosses you die a lot if there is no strategy that exists. I recall on moogles we probably died like 20 times or more before we came up with a strategy that works. And our linkshell was probably the second LS to kill them on our server.

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Yeah, but in situations like that it's clearly a choice. If you want to set the precedent and be the first to do "x" thing, sometimes you have to take the punches too.

Hate misleading thread names.. This topic has been talked about and beaten like a horse, to death.. Now we have to have another one?

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

This will frustrate a lot of players, plus you don't know the balancing of exp you get from the trash. Say if you lose 10% exp at lv 50 when dying. Will killing the amount of trash to the boss give you enough exp? It may be enough for only one attempt then you have to reset raid again? Plus the boss may be the 4th boss in the raid so you have to kill all the other bosses again.

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Let me point out something major that you seem to be missing.

1.x had a 1hr time limit to dungeons. Even more harsh restrictions if you wanted DL body / relic quest. Therefore best case sceneario you could get up to the final boss in 12 or so minutes. It takes a few minutes to kill the boss successfully, but more like 10-15 if you include death and running back, waiting for weakness, rebuffing etc. So this would be maybe 3-5 attempts at the boss before you would be pushing it for time - causing you to zone out / start again. This is a light "penalty" for not succeeding, but it worked. If you couldn't defeat the final boss in time, you would have to repeat the zone.


2.0 will not have any time restriction. Therefore there is no innate penalty for death. This promotes very little challenge, as you can effectively throw dead bodies at the final boss until it dies. How is this challenging or rewarding?

*edit*

A simple failsafe to remove you from the instance after xx amount of full party wipes or something similar would suffice. Having no penalty at all is just stupid though.

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Originally Posted by Altena

2.0 will not have any time restriction. Therefore there is no innate penalty for death. This promotes very little challenge, as you can effectively throw dead bodies at the final boss until it dies. How is this challenging or rewarding?

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You are confusing easy repetition for being challenging? Killing trash over and over to get exp is not challeging it's just monotonous, put in place to increase the life time of the limited content. FFXIV 1.0 wasn't done well, it was done in such a way to extend the life time of the very limited content because SE was really busy making content for 2.0. Drop rates were extremely rare as well to increase the life time of the content.

Coming up with a strategy to beat a boss is challenging and rewarding, not killing trash over an over.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

You are confusing easy repetition for being challenging? Killing trash over and over to get exp is not challeging it's just monotonous put in place to increase the life time of the limited content. FFXIV 1.0 wasn't done well, it was done in such a way to extend the life time of the very limited content because SE was really busy making content for 2.0. Drop rates were extremely rare as well to increase the life time of the content.

Coming up with a strategy to beat a boss is challenging and rewarding, not killing trash over an over.

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Nope. But you would be surprised how many people find trash mobs in a dungeon difficult. You know how many groups wiped to the trash in AV? Bucketloads. In fact half the PUGs in the early days would die as soon as they hit the lillies. What is challenging for some may not be for others, and vice verser. An instanced dungeon isn't all about 2 fights, otherwise you might as well call them primal fights and remove the rest of it. An instanced dungeon is about the whole package, and I feel spamming Chimera over and over until you win while skipping these "trash" mobs is hardly something to proclaim a success in my opinion.

I did semi switch off once you started to pull the ego card out with "your linkshell did this and that" because I take that as a grain of salt but your idea of throwing dead bodies at a mob until you win is not a success. Completing a full run with minimal deaths is. If it were my game I would throw the group out after a wipe. Death is meant to come with a penalty, not a reward. Running through an uncontested dungeon, over and over to skip to your chance at the final boss is a reward in my books.