Skill-up's

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

The entire game is different from anything I have played especially thanks to the new content added by Yoshi-P.

It needs to distinguish itself from FFXI more than ever at this point in time. I already said it was okay to borrow ideas from FFXI but if they wanted a FFXI 2.0 then they would have made it instead. So I am sorry you're tired of hearing go play FFXI if you want FFXI, but the truth hurts my friend. As well as go play FFXI is a very valid point also I am just as tired of seeing threads pop up every single day saying this was in FFXI it needs to be in this game. How many FF games that come in sequential order are anything past the basics like one another?

No it is time for 2.0 to come out and what similarities it has of XI needs to end there and a new game will be born and better than FFXI. So I can finally stop looking back and wondering if I should reactivate my FFXI account.

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The truth is that the original FFXIV tried to be something completely new and it was an utter failure. The truth is that Yoshi *is* looking back at FFXI and reincorporating features that worked there. 2.0 isn't shaping up to be something entirely new, its becoming a grab bag of features from WOW, FFXI, and other *successful* MMOs. So this idea that people shouldn't request their favorite features from FFXI is absolutely asinine. If you are expecting something brand new then I suspect you are the one in for a hurting.

2.0 will not have any problem distinguishing itself from FFXI. The little bits we've seen and know make that absolutely clear. My fear is that we'll end up with something that is 80% WOW.

Problem is, people's favorite features of FFXI are why no one plays FFXI.

The shit that was okay back then was because we were kids, and had time to play inordinate amounts of time.

The shit that was okay back then was because we didn't know any better; FFXI was almost a direct import of Everquest and the grind and RNG nature of it was acceptable. This isn't the case anymore and you're not going to have people droning to sub to a P2P game where they can't even log in and accomplish anything. If for every action they do their only reward for 3 hours of work is dark matter, that's not going to work in the long run.

Garuda has a better system than the other primals/dungeons, but PUGs can't beat Garuda so that's largely irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Nazrakin

The truth is that the original FFXIV tried to be something completely new and it was an utter failure. The truth is that Yoshi *is* looking back at FFXI and reincorporating features that worked there. 2.0 isn't shaping up to be something entirely new, its becoming a grab bag of features from WOW, FFXI, and other *successful* MMOs. So this idea that people shouldn't request their favorite features from FFXI is absolutely asinine. If you are expecting something brand new then I suspect you are the one in for a hurting.

2.0 will not have any problem distinguishing itself from FFXI. The little bits we've seen and know make that absolutely clear. My fear is that we'll end up with something that is 80% WOW.

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FFXIV's failure wasn't because they tried new things, it failed because the game launched in a pre-alpha state and the game engine was pure garbage. The game didn't have any end game content, hell it didn't have any game content other than a few missions and leveling up.

They are pulling some "inspiration" from other games to attract more players but that is the extent of it. The idea of people stop asking them to make the game into FFXI or more like it while FFXI is still around is asinine. How about be be creative and come up with new ideas or even new interpretations of those said features from other games. I am not hurting because I see plenty of new things on the horizon for 2.0 and I am excited for it.

You are right about it not having any problems with distinguishing itself from FFXI but I add a correction of any other games out there as well. You shouldn't fear it being anything like WoW because of one or two similar features, the game play is still way different no matter how you look at it, so how can you in any sense even see WoW in FFXIV? Only feature I have read at all that really reminds me of WoW and other games that use it is the dungeon finder/content finder. Feel free to tell me what else you feel will be like WoW if there is anything at all. I would say this game has a 0% chance to become anything like WoW.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

The shit that was okay back then was because we were kids, and had time to play inordinate amounts of time.

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Assuming that anyone who got anything done on XI had "Inordinate ammounts of time" to play is false. It's funny how short sighted it is.

I had a full time job/familly/friends and only played for a few hours a day if I even logged on at all. I still got plenty done, and had no issue with the "Grind" that most people here drone on about. I know I'm not alone either, are we a majority? doubtfull but we are here and we have every right to voice our opinion as people who pretend that short recyclable content is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Problem is, people's favorite features of FFXI are why no one plays FFXI.

The shit that was okay back then was because we were kids, and had time to play inordinate amounts of time.

The shit that was okay back then was because we didn't know any better; FFXI was almost a direct import of Everquest and the grind and RNG nature of it was acceptable. This isn't the case anymore and you're not going to have people droning to sub to a P2P game where they can't even log in and accomplish anything. If for every action they do their only reward for 3 hours of work is dark matter, that's not going to work in the long run.

Garuda has a better system than the other primals/dungeons, but PUGs can't beat Garuda so that's largely irrelevant.

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I'm not talking about the "shit". When I think about the parts of FFXI that were a big success, I think of things like the skills chains, BCNMs, ect. I think the things that work best in FFXIV are the things that have already been lifted from FFXI like sub jobs, linkshells, and this concept of one character being able to do anything. I don't want shit like skill ups, exp loss, or hnm camping either.

Its silly to think that just because FFXI had some pretty "shit" elements that everything about it needs to be avoided.

skillchains were only a core concept of FFXI as a result of the players deciding they were the most effective way to beat content. when this changed, as things changed many times over XIs years, people fell away from using them.

skillchains were not the devs idea of the way to play; they were implemented, sure, but the idea wasn't that "Oh, to beat anything in this game you will need to use these". It was more of a side effect.

nothing else you responded to is really disagreeing with me, so I don't understand the need for all of it. I specifically address the RNG/Grind aspects of the game and why that's not acceptable.

If you have a dungeon, allow it to work so that I can log in for my 1-2 hours a day, do a raid, and progress on something I want or maybe get the drop that I want. Clear AV 40 times? Pick your piece of gear. Run AV 3-4x a night a few nights a week and you made some progress on your goals.

this type of gameplay also encourages pick up groups and strengthens the community. I don't need to speed run with my select few at whatever times they're on to get anywhere with my goals. I can shout, grab some people, get the win and make progress.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

FFXIV's failure wasn't because they tried new things, it failed because the game launched in a pre-alpha state and the game engine was pure garbage. The game didn't have any end game content, hell it didn't have any game content other than a few missions and leveling up.

They are pulling some "inspiration" from other games to attract more players but that is the extent of it. The idea of people stop asking them to make the game into FFXI or more like it while FFXI is still around is asinine. How about be be creative and come up with new ideas or even new interpretations of those said features from other games. I am not hurting because I see plenty of new things on the horizon for 2.0 and I am excited for it.

You are right about it not having any problems with distinguishing itself from FFXI but I add a correction of any other games out there as well. You shouldn't fear it being anything like WoW because of one or two similar features, the game play is still way different no matter how you look at it, so how can you in any sense even see WoW in FFXIV? Only feature I have read at all that really reminds me of WoW and other games that use it is the dungeon finder/content finder. Feel free to tell me what else you feel will be like WoW if there is anything at all. I would say this game has a 0% chance to become anything like WoW.

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The game felt like an Alpha because it introduced all these awful new ideas that were never fully fleshed out. It was like they were trying new things just to be new and people hated them across the board. People didn't quit because the game crashed a few times and the servers were a little laggy, they quit because it just flat out wasn't fun to play; because the gameplay systems that were in place were failures.

The game has improved because Yoshida (& co) have looked around at what everyone else did right and he's scoop out a lot of the those "unique" systems that didn't work. Looking forward to 2.0, he's going to continue to do just that. What is being taken from WOW? Pretty much everything that has been hyped so far. The questing system, the new UI, content finder, heavy reliance on crowd control, free companies, easy/hard modes for raids. The only exceptions I can think of are the changes to crafting and summons.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it either. I don't want it to become too much like WOW, but I have no problem with the team taking good ideas from other places. Refinement is, generally, what leads to fantastic games. It's rare that wee see truely innovative games that are nothing more than great potential. FFXI and WOW both took the Everquest formula and made it better. I fully support FFXIV looking back at its elders and doing the same.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

skillchains were only a core concept of FFXI as a result of the players deciding they were the most effective way to beat content. when this changed, as things changed many times over XIs years, people fell away from using them.

skillchains were not the devs idea of the way to play; they were implemented, sure, but the idea wasn't that "Oh, to beat anything in this game you will need to use these". It was more of a side effect.

nothing else you responded to is really disagreeing with me, so I don't understand the need for all of it. I specifically address the RNG/Grind aspects of the game and why that's not acceptable.

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Intended or not, it worked well and gave FFXI's combat a fun and teamwork driven component that we really haven't seen since. It does sound like GW2 will be doing something similar, and battle regiments in 2.0 may be more like them.

The fact that I don't disagree was the point, since you seem to think I want all the "shit" from FFXI in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Nazrakin

The game felt like an Alpha because it introduced all these awful new ideas that were never fully fleshed out. It was like they were trying new things just to be new and people hated them across the board. People didn't quit because the game crashed a few times and the servers were a little laggy, they quit because it just flat out wasn't fun to play; because the gameplay systems that were in place were failures.

The game has improved because Yoshida (& co) have looked around at what everyone else did right and he's scoop out a lot of the those "unique" systems that didn't work. Looking forward to 2.0, he's going to continue to do just that. What is being taken from WOW? Pretty much everything that has been hyped so far. The questing system, the new UI, content finder, heavy reliance on crowd control, free companies, easy/hard modes for raids. The only exceptions I can think of are the changes to crafting and summons.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it either. I don't want it to become too much like WOW, but I have no problem with the team taking good ideas from other places. Refinement is, generally, what leads to fantastic games. It's rare that wee see truely innovative games that are nothing more than great potential. FFXI and WOW both took the Everquest formula and made it better. I fully support FFXIV looking back at its elders and doing the same.

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I can't agree with several of the falsities your have mentioned. It felt like an alpha because it was released in a not finished state and was very unpolished. A lot of people did quit because the servers were super laggy to the point where mobs would kill you and you can't even target them because of some terrible server issues. Not everyone quit because of those reasons but a decent handful of them did. Actually the combat and all that wasn't too bad and if you go and look at multiple reviews that was one of the things that kept the games score around a 5 (out of 10) and not any lower than that. At the base of it all it had a entertaining combat system to it and personally although I like the new combat better I still miss having multiple base attacks to use at will.

The people that didn't quit because of the server issues quit because everything else outside of combat was not finished and like you said some of the ideas weren't flushed all the way out. So there was no content, leveling up sucked at the time because gaining exp was totally random. Etc etc etc, the list goes on. Even as though things have changes the current engine is what keeps the game from reaching greatness.
Also in response to this: The questing system, the new UI, content finder, heavy reliance on crowd control, free companies, easy/hard modes for raids. The only exceptions I can think of are the changes to crafting and summons. First of all the questing system was around before WoW came out, it is a common MMO streamline to get added into games because it is effective and generally (though opinions differ) a more enjoyable and rewarding system. I already gave you content finder though that is a streamline feature in all the new MMOs these days as well. Free companies? What did that come from? I haven't seen that in an MMO before, especially WoW. Hard modes, I can give you that one as well though it also is yet another streamline feature, something to challenge the hard core players. So anything else besides the common streamlined features that most players expect in a new MMO? I guess I fail to see how that makes a game like WoW. I forgot to address crowd control, really? Every single RPG I have ever played has crowd control in it.

I welcome the skill up system with open arms, mind you I have PLed every single class to 50 but I don't mind taking the time to cap my skills. This thread seems more like an FFXI butt hurt thread then anything, I'm sure if this was a system used in FF7 everyone would be jumping for joy a signing petitions to have this implemented in-game.