Hidde Glamours Locally (& other graphically immersive options)

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

My opinion: No.

There's no reason why anyone needs to be able to turn off other players' glamour. it's a pointless and dumb idea that brings nothing to the table for anyone.

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It could bring plenty to the table for folks on PS4 or weaker PCs. FFXI implemented their gear display toggle for performance issues since it's easier to only have to load a small spread of outfits rather than all the many different items per character on screen. It's not pointless or dumb just because you personally don't like it.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

How many man hours to design a system that will need to be added to regularly to allow players to toggle individual items they find distasteful?

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While the dev team could overcomplicate it like that... it's -probably- more likely and far easier that they just have the toggle load up predetermined gear based on job instead of making some kind of gear blacklist that the client sifts through and checkmarks (good god that'd be a stupid way to do this), and knowing the horrendous spaghetti code of XI cannot be much worse than XIV's I don't see it taking away something so drastic as another dungeon per patch especially with us already being down to one already.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No its not what I meant. I do not believe in hindering a run.

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That is is fair, I guess I just do not understand how wearing the glam instead of gear would work. Cause as you mentioned if they have the toggle on they would not see it either way so not 100% certain how it would ruin their immersion outside of just making the run far less enjoyable unless your glam is at level.

Disagree.

People glamour because they want others to see, letting other people decide what I look like goes against the whole point of glamour.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

While the dev team could overcomplicate it like that... it's -probably- more likely and far easier that they just have the toggle load up predetermined gear based on job instead of making some kind of gear blacklist that the client sifts through and checkmarks (good god that'd be a stupid way to do this), and knowing the horrendous spaghetti code of XI cannot be much worse than XIV's I don't see it taking away something so drastic as another dungeon per patch especially with us already being down to one already.

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If you're saying "hide every other PCs gear and show generic class-based gear", I think people would just get upset at that saying "everyone looks the same this is dumb".

If you're saying the above, but only in dungeons, I feel you- that would probably be much easier to do and probably simple to make a single generic set per armor type.

BUT, what people are asking for is a way to hide specific gear because "omg mah immurshun". As in, people want to specifically hide 2B's legs, or the rabbit costume, or speedos. Do Devs need to go through every piece of gear to decide what makes the list or not? Or is it several check lists like "Swimwear" then "costumes" etc. Then do specific armors sets like Shisui of the Violet Tides count as armor or swimwear? Then what about the actual swimwear that is identical? It goes on and on.

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

Disagree.

People glamour because they want others to see, letting other people decide what I look like goes against the whole point of glamour.

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I glamour items because I want them to look a certain way on my character when I look at them. The point of a glamour is to have your character appear a certain way, but there needn't be a guarantee that EVERYONE should have to see that since this is a video game with mutable rules for who sees what.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If you're saying "hide every other PCs gear and show generic class-based gear", I think people would just get upset at that saying "everyone looks the same this is dumb".

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Being that it would be an option, you could not use it if you think it's "dumb".

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Originally Posted by kaynide

If you're saying the above, but only in dungeons, I feel you- that would probably be much easier to do and probably simple to make a single generic set per armor type.

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It's not that much harder to do in the entire game in theory. The client would just render any PC that wasn't you in the generic sets.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

BUT, what people are asking for is a way to hide specific gear because "omg mah immurshun". As in, people want to specifically hide 2B's legs, or the rabbit costume, or speedos. Do Devs need to go through every piece of gear to decide what makes the list or not? Or is it several check lists like "Swimwear" then "costumes" etc. Then do specific armors sets like Shisui of the Violet Tides count as armor or swimwear? Then what about the actual swimwear that is identical? It goes on and on.

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We started at "Turn glamours off". Which has undesireable effects and doesn't really solve the problem.
I believe one or two people presented "select certain glamours to turn off". That solution is obviouslyt untenable and has many issues.

So another easier solution has been presented that solves the original problem yet considers others input and complexity considerations.

The problem is that people are being bothered/jarred/disturbed by certain non-standard, revealing or silly glamours. You can pick and choose the one solution someone presented that has issues just because you have a problem with people who want this.. or you can discuss what might actually be wrong with a viable solution.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

BUT, what people are asking for is a way to hide specific gear because "omg mah immurshun". As in, people want to specifically hide 2B's legs, or the rabbit costume, or speedos. Do Devs need to go through every piece of gear to decide what makes the list or not? Or is it several check lists like "Swimwear" then "costumes" etc. Then do specific armors sets like Shisui of the Violet Tides count as armor or swimwear? Then what about the actual swimwear that is identical? It goes on and on.

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Yeah some people are asking for this for immersion's sake, personally I feel that reason is long since gone due to XIV abandoning any sort of cohesive aesthetic but that's a different personal issue. I'm suggesting that the system FFXI uses is the best compromise for those people since it would put everyone around them in a generic catch-all Adventurer Outfit (possibly variants based on role) so that they don't have to see any oddball (to them) glamours but at the cost of not seeing say dungeon gear or raid gear as well. That seems a fair trade to me and if the immersion crowd doesn't like it then they can turn the toggle off and go back to how the game currently works.

Your idea of having the devs sort and make some manner of comprehensive list of "allowed" outfits is simply trying to overcomplicate the proposal and doesn't really help either stance.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

Your idea of having the devs sort and make some manner of comprehensive list of "allowed" outfits is simply trying to overcomplicate the proposal and doesn't really help either stance.

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That was my point; other than having generic adventurer garb for every single PC met, it is a waste of time. The FFXI system could work, but then people are just going to complain that everyone looks the same.

I'm only going on posts in this thread and the other one identical to it. People are complaining about wanting to hide specific things. These are people who care -a lot- about glamour and would not be happy with a "turn off everyone else" because they want to see and be seen.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Being that it would be an option, you could not use it if you think it's "dumb".

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I wouldn't be using it in the first place; my point here was that there will absolutely be people who will complain that the new "Glamour hide system is too restrictive! everyone looks the same".

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You can pick and choose the one solution someone presented that has issues just because you have a problem with people who want this.. or you can discuss what might actually be wrong with a viable solution.

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The best solution is the FFXI one, but even then I feel it's a waste of time -unless- it somehow boosts the game's speed (less assets to load) to allow for older specs to run the game; or to delay the eventual need for a spec increase.

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The problem to me is not a problem of immersion or giving players options or not; it's a problem that certain people who can not be satisfied. I also think it is incredibly rude to tell the devs to hide the work they put effort into.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I wouldn't be using it in the first place; my point here was that there will absolutely be people who will complain that the new "Glamour hide system is too restrictive! everyone looks the same".

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As is evidenced by this forum, someone will complain about everything. That's hardly a tick against it. If enough people complained it could be adjusted with a larger range of "basic" job glamours such as making them change every 10 levels or so or have palettes of possible combinations. Every single possible problem doesn't need to be solved for something to happen.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The best solution is the FFXI one, but even then I feel it's a waste of time -unless- it somehow boosts the game's speed (less assets to load) to allow for older specs to run the game; or to delay the eventual need for a spec increase.

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It would absolutely make lower end computers bog down less when loading in crowded areas. Fewer textures and models being loaded = less demand on RAM. How significant would remain to be seen but many of the games I play who have this type of option do it for optimization of loading in crowded areas.

Another benefit you may want to think of is people who complain about not being able to identify jobs by gear and use that excuse to argue for limiting glamour options will have an option to hard-limit other players on their screen to easily identifiable models and textures.

No more "we need this gear to mean this job/class/race" excuse.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The problem to me is not a problem of immersion or giving players options or not; it's a problem that certain people who can not be satisfied. I also think it is incredibly rude to tell the devs to hide the work they put effort into.

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Every option and suggested addition is people who aren't satisfied with the way it is. Their reasons are their own and you not understanding or believing them doesn't invalidate them.
They do this all the time when they make graphic fidelity adjustment settings or allow you to skip cutscenes or make optional content. Is all of that rude?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

They do this all the time when they make graphic fidelity adjustment settings or allow you to skip cutscenes or make optional content. Is all of that rude?

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Apples and oranges; the amount of time to make a “skip cutscene” option code wise vs an entire glamour hide system are two different things.

I’ve said what I’ve had to say: hard disagree on a glamour hide option. There really isn’t more for me to add.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Apples and oranges; the amount of time to make a “skip cutscene” option code wise vs an entire glamour hide system are two different things.

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but you weren't talking about dev time as far as coding or implementation of the proposed system you were complaining about hiding devs hard work. All of which do so.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I’ve said what I’ve had to say: hard disagree on a glamour hide option. There really isn’t more for me to add.

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I'm well aware you're against it, but hopefully you have some perspective as to WHY different people want it and how it could be implemented in a way to benefit more than just "no bikinis or butts" people.