RIP MNK 1.x - 5.x

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Gonna be perfectly honest, seeing as how Elixir Field (and according to tooltips, Tornado Kick too) are fittingly GCD spenders now, I don't see any reason not to give back Howling Fist and Steel Peak.

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I can agree, and I like the idea, but to the gods I swear that they better have higher potencies than back in the day... The first removal of them, I think(?) was because of how weak they were.. and easy to remove with little negative impact to the Monk, so they would need a high enough potency to be good oGCD attacks, I think.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Meditation will still be there as normal. The reason you don't see it on the hotbar is because forbidden chakra was open so it replaced the meditation skill icon but obvs if he had used the chakra the icon would have reverted back to meditation

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I could see that being a thing... The Forbidden Chakra as a action with no Meditation action, but I would hate a change like that, as I like the Meditation action.

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Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai

I could see that being a thing... The Forbidden Chakra as a action with no Meditation action, but I would hate a change like that, as I like the Meditation action.

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Do you not play Monk? How Andy_T93 described the relationshiop is how it already works ingame. At 0-4 Chakra, the button is meditation, once you hit the 5th Chakra, Meditation changes to The Forbidden Chakra.

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Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai

I can agree, and I like the idea, but to the gods I swear that they better have higher potencies than back in the day... The first removal of them, I think(?) was because of how weak they were.. and easy to remove with little negative impact to the Monk, so they would need a high enough potency to be good oGCD attacks, I think.

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I believe they were removed because the development team initially thought that GL4 would be """too fast""" for us to deal with. Just... ignore how this was right after the busiest iteration of MNK and they went back on their word eventually anyway by turning TK into Steel Peak.

However they could easily take the place of current Elixir Field and TK, potency, cooldown and all. Might as well, seeing as how the only damaging oGCD present in the demonstration was Forbidden Chakra.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I believe they were removed because the development team initially thought that GL4 would be """too fast""" for us to deal with. Just... ignore how this was right after the busiest iteration of MNK and they went back on their word eventually anyway by turning TK into Steel Peak.

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"GL4 will be too fast" is how you knew not a single person on the Dev Team played Monk. We were no faster. We just invested more stats into crit rather than sks and maintained the same GCD speed we've always geared to.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Meditation will still be there as normal. The reason you don't see it on the hotbar is because forbidden chakra was open so it replaced the meditation skill icon but obvs if he had used the chakra the icon would have reverted back to meditation

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Damn, your right it was open! Then meditation is still there it seems, but I'm curious to why 2 chackra were gained with using new "tornado AOE", maybe something to do with "Riddle of Wind"? I'm so curious.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Damn, your right it was open! Then meditation is still there it seems, but I'm curious to why 2 chackra were gained with using new "tornado AOE", maybe something to do with "Riddle of Wind"? I'm so curious.

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Watching it back I don't think he did I actually think the first chakra was gained from activating PB then the second one was gained from the new AOE kick, Which could mean that activating PB grants a chakra

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

"GL4 will be too fast" is how you knew not a single person on the Dev Team played Monk. We were no faster. We just invested more stats into crit rather than sks and maintained the same GCD speed we've *always* geared to.

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Yes, you sum it up pretty nicely.
Not a single main MNK complain that “its too fast”.
Fast GCD is what we signed up for and that’s why we called ourselves main MNK.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I feel you're pain. As a main SMN since Beta, this overhaul feels like they are removing everything I enjoyed about the job.

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I am the opposite. As someone who has hated SMN more and more since beta. I am glad we finally have an actual summoner instead of a quasi-dot class. They should just turn old summoner dot playstyle into some other caster class like Necromancer, Oracle, or Spellsword. Something. I am finally happy that after so many years I can actually play a genuine close to FF style summoner.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Do you not play Monk? How Andy_T93 described the relationshiop is how it already works ingame. At 0-4 Chakra, the button is meditation, once you hit the 5th Chakra, Meditation changes to The Forbidden Chakra.

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I think that you mis-read what I meant... I was to think.. imagine if Meditation does not exist, and The Forbidden Chakra is a action that just sits on your hotbar and you can not use it, until you get five Chakra, and then The Forbidden Chakra action goes from grey to lit up and ready for use. My point is that would annoy me, because I like the Meditation action, and I like how it transforms into The Forbidden Chakra, when The Forbidden Chakra is ready.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I believe they were removed because the development team initially thought that GL4 would be """too fast""" for us to deal with. Just... ignore how this was right after the busiest iteration of MNK and they went back on their word eventually anyway by turning TK into Steel Peak.

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

"GL4 will be too fast" is how you knew not a single person on the Dev Team played Monk. We were no faster. We just invested more stats into crit rather than sks and maintained the same GCD speed we've always geared to.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

Yes, you sum it up pretty nicely.
Not a single main MNK complain that “its too fast”.
Fast GCD is what we signed up for and that’s why we called ourselves main MNK.

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That may have also been the case... I think that their delete was because of "button bloat", but that may be the case... And I agree that it is nonsense.
I love Monk because I love speed... I love a thing that does not exist in FFXIV, the Speed archtype play-style, and Monk is the most close to that... To me, too fast does not exist, only too slow exists.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

However they could easily take the place of current Elixir Field and TK, potency, cooldown and all. Might as well, seeing as how the only damaging oGCD present in the demonstration was Forbidden Chakra.

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As for that, I could go with that... I think that would work out, so let us go with that idea... In that case, hmn...Howling Fist would be a short-range frontal straight-line AoE with potency 250 and a 30sec CD, while Steel Peak would be the melee-range single target attack with potency 400 and the 45sec CD...

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

"GL4 will be too fast" is how you knew not a single person on the Dev Team played Monk. We were no faster. We just invested more stats into crit rather than sks and maintained the same GCD speed we've always geared to.

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What makes this worse is that it's clear nobody on the dev team has been seriously playing Monk on live servers since 2.0, if we're being generous. The way GL was handled up until its eventual removal feels like someone was following a design document, and not even bothering to experiment for themselves what their changes were doing to the job. What monk mains were actually demanding the removal of steel peak and howling fist? Which ones wanted a skill that SLOWED US DOWN, on top of our old capstone skill doing the same and reverting us to a weakened state??????

The addition of Blitzes is probably one of the most visible instances of someone actually taking player feedback about the job seriously, if not the first. And it's impossible for me to be excited about it because the devs have mishandled the job for so long, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

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Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai

That may have also been the case... I think that their delete was because of "button bloat", but that may be the case... And I agree that it is nonsense.

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I think what makes the "button bloat" removal on the devs part frustrating is that they didn't actually address button bloat.

If they wanted to address button bloat more decisively AND effectively, elemental fists should have been removed from the game by 3.0 at the latest. They have been a thorn in the side of the job since inception, have rarely demanded players to dance between them, and the biggest change to that dynamic, AFAIK, was in ShB, where a popular opener involved STARTING in Fire, then switching to Wind when we hit GL3 so we could push into GL4... so we could sit in Wind for the rest of the fight, barring the need to reopen.

And then they removed GL anyway, so now we just sit in Fire. Again.

I would trade all the elemental fists for the OGCDs we've lost over the years, since its pretty clear that "button bloat" isn't actually something SE has ever cared about in regards to monks for a VERY long time now. Hell, ShB Monk had plenty of button bloat to deal with just having the elemental fists and a host of buttons all designed to help maintain GL... which is no longer in the game, and were made worthless even before that because SE decided it was more important that we lose GL while we watch the same damn mid-fight cutscenes again, and again, and again.

Maybe if TP still existed in the game, the enforced breaks might be somewhat welcome. Maybe.