DRK QOL changes for 5.4

For me HW will be always the superior and most unique version of the job, with the passage of expansions DRK has only know involution on his mechanics and lose personal stuff on SB to make it role skills with the same icons and animations to the complete erasing of entire mechanics and proceed to copi-paste mechanics from other jobs in SHB to keep the job working somehow.
it's pretty frustating no matter how much ppl say they want HW back in SB and now in SBH they still go to the contrary direction always, no wonder why DRK comunity is a mess right now due they poor process on delevop the job and lack of interactivity with the comunity, i would be pretty surprised if they don't somehow manage to rip off the rest of his unique stuff and make it again more brain dead next expansion.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

All that was needed for the tanks to have found balance back then (correct me if I'm wrong) was for PLD to be able to block magic damage.

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And WAR losing slashing debuff (or make every tank have it) to stop being mandatory only for that, with Bloodbath nerfs due how broken it was the skill with his berserk window and some dps ajustments, HW balance problems was in great part for WAR god status apart of PLD being unable to block magic.

I think the reason why players are unsatisfied with DRK is because when it was introduced in HW, it was the more technically complex counterpart to PLD and WAR. You don't need every job to be accessible. If you do, you lose those players looking for high risk high reward gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I also feel that the main problem this expansion isn't so much job specific issues as it is tanking and fight design as a whole. I would like to see Living Dead be addressed and reworked (I think most DRK players do), and I think, broadly speaking, there can be a lot more done to flesh out individual job identities in a way that's more interesting. GNB showed that you can do a burst window without following the standard pattern of Requiescat/HS spam, IR/FC Spam, or Delirium/BS spam. But the broader issue is in giving tanking more raid value. If you make it accessible to the point that anyone can do it or that the consequences of failure are minimised, then people aren't going to want to invest time focusing on it as their primary role in the long run.

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You do realize that from 72-80 there was only one* defensive cd among all four tanks, Dark Missionary, which should imply the theme of what tanks are supposed to be in 5.0. NF is more utility than defensive but NF was a skill that used to be for IB when in Defiance so I don't even regard it as a new skill but rather a crappier version of something we used to have though 5.3 did fix the ease of use so there's that. Ironically job identity lied in its tool kit which used to vary in previous expansion but was gutted in 5.0. Off tank stances were the biggest proponent of that making some jobs play differently even though they all did the same 123 rotation. DRK had MP to manage as well as buffing skills with DA and keeping Darkside up 100%. 4.0 WAR originally had a penalty to switching, was rectified in 4.2, with the same 3.0 game play that we all loved of maintaining buffs and burst windows self sustains. PLD still lacked originality but was now on par with the other tanks.

Some of the biggest complaints from 4.0 DRk was the DA spam, ironically we are still doing it but its called 'shadow' now. It could have easily been fixed if DA only buffed certain skills. Siphon strike didn't need to be buffed so idk why they let it despite not giving back extra MP if buffed. Dark Passenger could have just been a straight ogcd and Blood Price (which was garbage imo) needed to be a straight lucid dreaming MP regen WITH a possibility on proc'ing extra MP/blood on hit. They also needed to make all tank stances be ogcd. That should have been the first thing they did before deciding to gut it entirely.

I'm also inclined to note that the dev teams want to lower the skill ceiling but fail to proved new players with the tutorials needed for it. All you get is a new skill on lvl ups or job quest and then you are on your own. NN is garbage (at least on my server), Novice hall doesn't explain how each jobs vary and what skills they have vs others, and the tool tips are worded poorly at times. I feel that 5.0 was just them throwing their hands up and saying eff-it cuz I haven't seen a lazier rework since watching PLD's oath gauge in evolve from 3.0 to 5.0. Thank god the story and music is excellent cuz but 2/3 is just a 66% score and that's nothing to brag about.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

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Not sure how any of this relates to my post. None of the WAR related stuff is relevant to this thread. Stances needed to be gutted because nobody wanted to use them and they only benefited one job (WAR) over the others. No surprise that most of us wanted them deleted. Next.

Edge/Flood gives us the potency in a single step now. That itself, along with the changes to the rate of MP generation, is a big improvement. The main job-specific fix here that needs to happen is to fix Living Dead, especially with the completely unnecessary Holmgang buffs this expansion. Or just delete invulns, if the devs are unable to balance them (which the like two of them who actually do balance work clearly aren't). Either is fine.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I think the reason why players are unsatisfied with DRK is because when it was introduced in HW, it was the more technically complex counterpart to PLD and WAR. You don't need every job to be accessible. If you do, you lose those players looking for high risk high reward gameplay.

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This is why I dropped DRK in ShB.

I like the more technical, hard to learn but fun when figured out things in my vidya. MonHun my weapon of choice is charge blade for this reason.
I was really hoping GNB would fill the void. It does come close, but it's still just... not all there.

I would like to see Edge of Shadow to consume TBN when it is up and be free then. Additionally to the current mechanic when TBN breaks. That would allow the use of TBN in situations where the damage is not massive and very well in solo or grinding situations too.

Just an update: my membership will be running out soon, and seeing as how you can't post on these forums unless you've got active membership, there won't be any more posts from me for awhile. if DRK and SCH don't get fixed by 6.0, you may never hear from me again. Just wanted to thank everyone for their ideas and participation. Hopefully the developers realise the colossal mistakes they've made in their chase for accessibility and try to fix things for 6.0.

As for the discussion, I wish for it to move to Shao's thread because I feel it does a very good job of summarizing what DRK players want from the job, and what SHB DRK is lacking in comparison to its earlier iterations. I think that these threads have the potential to change SHB DRK for the better, and I hope you guys continue to fight for what you think should be done so that FFXIV's job design can return to form. take care people, peace!

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

By the way, when you state “fellow WAR” that means you have grouped me within that community and assumed my main. You jumped the gun, not me.

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Doesn't really help that it says your main class is warrior though in this case. The forum assumed this not him.

I can't help but feel that DRK is feeling too much like WAR with only slight variance where it doesn't matter too much in fact I can go as far as too see WAR feels much better than DRK especially at end game where it can basically recover all its health with Inner Release due to recent changes. Which now that I think on it kinda always been the case its just easier now since you dont have to target a party member to get that buff to youself.

Also the reason for delete above was more because I quoted the wrong person but the post is basically the same.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Well yeah. They took what was traditionally a DPS focused job that gave up it's health to do damage and attempted to make it into a tank. Then on top of that gave it's one main identity to Warrior and instead gave it something that Rune Fencers, mystical knights, ect ect are better known for, which is preventing magical damage. They aren't going to find something that everyone agrees upon because they already split the community and didn't have a good idea coming into this with what they wanted to do with the job.

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Thank you! Someone else agrees that FFXIV DRK has much more in common with Rune Fencer than Dark Knight itself. It's so dumb! Shadowbringers DRK visually is close to Cecil animation wise but that is it.

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Originally Posted by Whatzituyah

Doesn't really help that it says your main class is warrior though in this case. The forum assumed this not him.

I can't help but feel that DRK is feeling too much like WAR with only slight variance where it doesn't matter too much in fact I can go as far as too see WAR feels much better than DRK especially at end game where it can basically recover all its health with Inner Release due to recent changes. Which now that I think on it kinda always been the case its just easier now since you dont have to target a party member to get that buff to youself.

Also the reason for delete above was more because I quoted the wrong person but the post is basically the same.

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All the tanks are like that currently.\
PLD requiescat window = 4x holy spirit + confiteor
DRK Delirium window: Bloodspiller 5x
WAR inner release window: 5x fell cleave
GNB (?) I haven't leveled it to 80.

Many of the tanks were homogenized in various ways, and that is why people are dissatisfied.
The differences now are only in a handful of abilities.