5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Lets flip this, and see how well these theoretical claims pan out.

You -can- clear week 1 without them.

So clearly anyone who didn't was just slacking. All of them. All of them.

Doesn't paint a very good light, does it?

---

Since you want to argue pointless semantic and put words in my mouth. I'll rephrase. Certain comps have a significant advantage over others even if the skill level of the players in the weaker job comp is higher. Therefore, the comp running the big three could afford more mistakes and less optimal play—to the tune of 1,000+ per job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AikenDrum

Slacking means making mistakes in this context ><

---

Thank you! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saito_

I don't get why this discussion is so fired up. Is it actually impossible to complete savage raids in a non-meta comp e.g. SMN,RDM,NIN,DNC?

---

It is not about if certain non meta comp can get through hardest content
it is about the extra efforts certain comp have to put into to achieve the same result.
Of cause there would be a difference, the key is how large the difference
and this is how balance should work

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Since you want to argue pointless semantic and put words in my mouth. I'll rephrase.

---

They aren't pointless.

Slacking doesn't mean 'make mistakes'. It means 'not put in as much effort as one could'. It creates a clear, intentional or not, message that doesn't serve the discussion at all. "THEY don't have to work as hard as YOU", which itself ignores the matter that you don't want that sort of player in your team, regardless of what job they're on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kitfox

No, I don't main SMN, but I did clear UCOB and UWU with it. I don't think you can have raise and do competitive dps with the way things are balanced currently and I'd rather have the dps if my group's caster wants to switch roles with me. I don't think Raise is in any shape or form core of the SMN or RDM identity and taking it out of the dps balancing picture would make SMN and RDM dps more competitive.

Healers would still use Raise. You can't Swift Cast items and nobody wants to sit through 8 second hardcasts if they don't have to. With a 10 minute cooldown you would quickly run out of item raises with multiple deaths and would have to use regular ones. But how often do you really see healers hardcast Raises anyway? Almost never, so they would still use their Swift Raises as normal.

---

Jobs can be more interesting to play if they have some even minor support vs worrying about dps for savage which I don't even do. Otherwise we can just strip everything down, have the same basic structure, kept the jobs 100% focused on their main purpose and have them be boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

They aren't pointless.

Slacking doesn't mean 'make mistakes'. It means 'not put in as much effort as one could'. It creates a clear, intentional or not, message that doesn't serve the discussion at all. "THEY don't have to work as hard as YOU", which itself ignores the matter that you don't want that sort of player in your team, regardless of what job they're on.

---

Except that people have different skill levels with this game, some people are able to easily pull 90th percentile dps on any job they want with minimal effort and only a bit of reading, while some have to work hard to be able to consistently pull dps above the 70th percentile, whether it be because you're new to mmos or because of age or even just because you don't have much talent for your job.

I've personally always been an advocate for "Play the job you're good at" because everyone has classes they suck at *cough* summoner *cough* but the issue that most people have when it comes to job balance is from the fact that a person who can perform at the 95th percentile on any job they choose but enjoys playing dancer or red mage the most and decides to main it for this savage tier is unintentionally putting a handicap on their group by not performing as well as they could at their dps percentile.

And by as well as they could, I mean that the 95th percentile red mage pulling 12.7k dps could be playing monk instead and pull a dps of 14,200 instead of a dps of 12.7k. That's a handicap of 1.5k on the group just because of job choice, and that handicap multiplies, scaling even higher with each lower end job that the group is running.

Obviously there will always be dps differences between jobs, and there will be some jobs that are much better than the others, but, a 1.5k rdps handicap should be from running 3 lower end jobs, not 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Obviously there will always be dps differences between jobs, and there will be some jobs that are much better than the others, but, a 1.5k rdps handicap should be from running 3 lower end jobs, not 1.

---

I said nothing about the overall state of balance, because I've said elsewhere plenty what I believe the direction they should take is..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

I said nothing about the overall state of balance, because I've said elsewhere plenty what I believe the direction they should take is..

---

Yeah I kind of went off on a tangent there.

Regardless, my point was that the same level of effort yields different levels of results depending on what your class is as well as other factors you can't really control as easily.

Obviously you should always be trying your hardest when it comes to clearing content, but it's super discouraging that your 100% will yield much better results on a more overpowered job. There's nothing wrong with finding that fact discouraging or even a infuriating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogempire

And by as well as they could, I mean that the 95th percentile red mage pulling 12.7k dps could be playing monk instead and pull a dps of 14,200 instead of a dps of 12.7k. That's a handicap of 1.5k on the group just because of job choice, and that handicap multiplies, scaling even higher with each lower end job that the group is running.

---

Unless.. (drumroll)

You already have a monk.

I would like to see the comparison between a 4 monk comp and a proper comp, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Unless.. (drumroll)

You already have a monk.

I would like to see the comparison between a 4 monk comp and a proper comp, though.

---

Very low Tank damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogempire

Obviously you should always be trying your hardest when it comes to clearing content, but it's super discouraging that your 100% will yield much better results on a more overpowered job. There's nothing wrong with finding that fact discouraging or even a infuriating.

---

Yeah.

That's fine.

Been there too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Unless.. (drumroll)

You already have a monk.

I would like to see the comparison between a 4 monk comp and a proper comp, though.

---

I mean if you have a monk then you can switch to black mage or dragoon or really any of the upper half dps jobs.