This is the end.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

No "we" don't. Playing as intended does not equate to speed runs. Speed runs are something that some players do, and it would be courteous to request a speed run in DR/DF, but is others don't want to, then it's not a speed run, and not wantingto speed run is not selfish, pushing or bullying others to do it IS.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

(No support means: I heal slow, no AoE/buffs as dps

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I don't believe in trying to force people to speed run either...but from what I get from what this poster said...they are basically attempting to force people not to speed run by purposefully not using AoE damage abilities and not using DPS buffs even though they know it is good to do so. So it is kinda the pot calling the kettle black now. That's a pretty big double standard there.

I may be misunderstanding but what I get from Asahina is "I know AoE's and DPS buffs are good, but it will make this run go faster, so I won't use them cause I don't want to speed run."

In DF situations unfortunately majority rules. If they didn't want to do a speed run and the rest do then they should politely drop out or ask nicely to be kicked instead of purposefully lowering their DPS. That's just silly and some serious spitefulness going on.

If you are playing a game with other people like in an MMO you really have to be a little bit compromising. Especially if your playstyle/opinion is the minority in the group...you kinda have to either bow out, go with the flow, or attempt to discuss your issue with the rest of the group to come to a mutual agreement or compromise.

If Asahina didn't mean it that way then it's fine, but I don't know how else to interpret what they said.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

You do not get to decide if someone is underperforming, nor do you get to define underperforming. Putting your self importance aside, everyone pays the same sub, everyone deserves respect. I am so tired of self appointed judges of how long a run should take, how much dps should be done, how others should play their role, etc. you can't see it, but that attitude is a huge driver behind the toxicity being discussed.

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I believe the old WoW adage still holds true to this day. Sure, it's your $15 a month. But it's our $45/$105/$345, and we don't want to deal with your inability to play right.

By all means. Fail completely at your job in solo play. But if you go into a group, don't expect people to put up with it. We pay just as much as you do, and you're wasting OUR time and money.

https://thesmatter.files.wordpress.c.../homer-end.jpg

mmos always have rude players, unfortunately, but players as rude as in the op seem to be significantly in the minority.

I've had a few experiences like this. The first time it happened to me I ended up having a panic attack (I have anxiety) and my friends in my FC helped me feel better. I don't let people bother me like that anymore. If people start acting like that, I just leave the duty and spend 30 minutes doing something else. You shouldn't stop playing if you really like the game.

I appreciate people trying to clear things up on my hand but I want to get my words in anyway.

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

I am not taking anything out of context.

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You are infact, taking my words out of context. I don't necessary disagree alot of the things you say, and infact I a do agree with some of the statements, being willing and more considerate in teaching people in DF. The thing is, none of this is present in OP's situation. You're putting your point of view into his scenario (that people should be respectful) and throwing mine out of it and applying to every other circumstance (people need to grow a thicker skin and accept criticism). The matter of fact is, neither of that is happening (people are being overly critical to the point of harassment and not being accepting of criticism) in OP's situation based on what we've been given.

What we have is
>OP plays ballad when it's not needed
>People call him out that it's pointless and lowering his damage
>OP tells them to "dont tell others how to play"
>Specially states that he stopped talking
>Mentions that he turned off ballad at some point
> "All hell breaks loose" and he gets kicked.

All of this has to happen after at least 5 minutes as passed.

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I also see this notion from Rice about what is reasonable to expect from players in a roulette group (based on their role), and how that feeds into the vote kick function. Make no mistake, I do think there are many completely valid uses of a vote kick. But I'm seeing some in this thread equate the OP using ballad incorrectly to him stand in a corner picking his nose during a boss fight

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Even if he was using ballad incorrectly, people have pointed it out (in a nice way or not) and he effectively told them to "don't tell people what to do". That is usually my personal threshold for not wanting to put up with people in DF (either through vote kicking or straight up leaving) because at that point, they don't particularly care they are slowing down the party, and are probably purposely doing it anyway now that they (now) know it's bad There's so many holes to fill in, that I just cannot side with OP with how little information he's given, and especially how hostile he had gotten to both his party members and to the people in this topic. We don't even know if he actually did turn it off as soon as they mentioned it or right before he got kicked. And the worse of all is, because he mentioned that bolded part, it's a player dispute so unfortunately, GMs really will not take action on it.

Wait, so this is the end yet you didn't have an active account till now? Ya somehow Not going to give you any room here, go play the game then comment otherwise you seem to be a douch who is just attacking the game because it's cool.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Snip

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And what you've consistently ignored (or don't believe), was the context that may have driven the OP to tell the other Bard to mind their own business. Assuming there are some threads of truth to Boosti's statements, the other Bard started their critique by insulting him, labeling him as 'worthless' for using ballad. There's also the difference in opinion about the applicability of ballad to DRK. The other bard appears to assume Boosti is clueless about the fact that ballad has no effect on the DRK's MP with Darkside up, when it appears Boosti's did understand that and his intentions was to give the DRK the MP boost when they deactivated Darkside. let's take those elements together. Boosti now is perceiving a player who's quick to hostility, insulting his self worth, and who appears to not understand his purpose in his actions but instead label him incompetent. Yes, that doesn't mitigate the fact that Boosti was performing in a less than optimal manner, and his reaction to the Bard did not help the situation. But that goes back to an earlier statement I made: sometime people don't know what they don't know. Perhaps to Boosti, providing the MP boost seemed like a valuable utility to possibly two other members of his party. He isn't wrong in the notion that tanks and healers can provide meaningful DPS.

So let's look at it from that situation. Boosti feels like he's under attack, with everyone in the party potentially turning against him. At the same time, he feels like the other Bard is calling him out without trying to understand his purpose. In my opinion, that paints the picture of someone pushed into a corner and simply reacting badly. A behavior I think anyone can say has happened to them at least one or two times in their lives.

And it goes back to what I've been saying all along. If you see someone doing something you no is wrong or not optimal, attacking them is not the way to go about correcting it. Just going through the this, it's clear the main thing Boosti took from this experience was not how to optimize his song usage in these situations, but a feeling that the community is toxic. Even if the other Bard's intentions were to get him to play better, they failed miserably from their execution.

Common elements in threads like these:

-"Debates" that just repeat the same points over and over
-Random meme images to mock someone
-Debates that spiral into a massive text wall
-Random accusations
-Me posting stuff like this
-Moderator comes in to lock the thread after 10+ pages

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

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The "worthless" statement came after the critique, after his reply, and after his silence, whether or not that critique itself was bad, we don't know. I got labeled for being one of those people just for pointing out one example of the perspective by boosti himself, how am I so sure that he isn't hyperboling about being "crucified" when he did so to me in this topic?


The other people in his party doesn't even know his intent for playing ballad to begin with, he never bothered justifying it to them. Honestly that point, it doesn't matter who was hostile or uncooperative first, because both sides of the party aren't being cooperative. My point is that you shouldn't play the "mind your own business card", because honestly, they're in your party, it is their business on how you play can affect them. Boosti wasn't in the right to be that dismissive to the party, regardless of what their initial response was. And we don't even know for sure if it was that bad to begin with from the beginning because we don't have screenshots or anything else to go by other than his word (which, again, has been pretty hostile to people who are not on his side).

We don't know if he got attacked or not and to what degree the statement was. If he didn't, it's even worse with how he reacted. If he did, it doesn't justify him reacting the way he did anyway because that only adds to the vitriol that is this community. And everything that happened after-the-fact (calling him useless, kicking him) was after his response and after his silence, so he could have very well provoked that even further with his dismissive response.

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The other bard appears to assume Boosti is clueless about the fact that ballad has no effect on the DRK's MP with Darkside up, when it appears Boosti's did understand that and his intentions was to give the DRK the MP boost when they deactivated Darkside. let's take those elements together.

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But that goes back to an earlier statement I made: sometime people don't know what they don't know. Perhaps to Boosti, providing the MP boost seemed like a valuable utility to possibly two other members of his party. He isn't wrong in the notion that tanks and healers can provide meaningful DPS.

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The party does not know that was his intention. He never even bothered telling them or correcting them when they assumed that he was playing ballad for the DRK. There's no communication or attempt to defuse the situation, but instead he told them off.

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So let's look at it from that situation. Boosti feels like he's under attack, with everyone in the party potentially turning against him. At the same time, he feels like the other Bard is calling him out without trying to understand his purpose. In my opinion, that paints the picture of someone pushed into a corner and simply reacting badly. A behavior I think anyone can say has happened to them at least one or two times in their lives.

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And again, my point is how you react to that. especially the bolded part, boosti himself had made no attempt to clear up anything or to even correct the bard (why was he playing ballad to begin with?) He's done the "corner and reacting badly" thing in this very same topic as well, except people were not even openly hostile to him to begin with. To me, that paints something of him being extremely reactive to people that do not nessescarly agree with what he does or believes.