Hardcore is not a dirty word

Depends I might be working on a thread about the lack of investment in the game and put it up before the weekend *will be busy with my brothers wedding at the start of the month*

I think it will be a bit of a hot-button issue as it deals with the "Casual vs Hardcore" people alot.

Lol, who cares about hardcore or casual? Stop whining, go play a different game if it's too "casual" for you.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Why does everyone assume the whole game has to be either casual or hard core?

Why cant it be casual with a bit of harder content?

Am I asking too much here?

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World of Warcraft is just like that and it so happens to be the biggest MMORPG out there. Coincidence?

Hardcores have their Hard-mode 25 mans, casuals have their heroic dungeons and for the inbetweens there are 10-man raids.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

World of Warcraft is just like that and it so happens to be the biggest MMORPG out there. Coincidence?

Hardcores have their Hard-mode 25 mans, casuals have their heroic dungeons and for the inbetweens there are 10-man raids.

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Actually 10-man raids are harder than 25. 25 mans can take a few deaths and not be greatly affected by it, in 10 man losing 1 or 2 people could easily make the fight impossible.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

Actually 10-man raids are harder than 25. 25 mans can take a few deaths and not be greatly affected by it, in 10 man losing 1 or 2 people could easily make the fight impossible.

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The coordination needed to make sure 25 idiots don't mess up is pretty intense though.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldHill

The coordination needed to make sure 25 idiots don't mess up is pretty intense though.

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True but co-ordinating 10 people to never make a mistake is surprisingly harder than 25 people. In 25-man people who have no clue tend follow around people who know what they're doing, this way they avoid standing where they shouldn't and that saves their life and everyone elses. In 10 man the group is spread out thin and when one makes a mistake everyone pays for it because the loss of a healer, good dps or tank often proves fatal.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

And I would say that from a design stand point everything you mentioned is not "hard core" but poor design. Basically, I can spend several hours in game just playing around in Ul'dah making my LS mates laugh by dancing in my skivvies. I did this the other night for 7 hours, is that "hard core" I put in a lot of time and effort making my friends laugh and it was rewarding too, It took me 3 hours to rank my lancer from 6 to 15, grinding the crap out of dodo's solo, I guess that was just casual. Time spent doing something does not make something hard core...it is just time you will never get back that you could have been doing something actually fun.

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Hardcore might mean different things in different situations, but we're talking about video games, and in particular MMOs. The term "hardcore" in video games may refer to complexity, but MMOs aren't particularly complex. Therefore, the greatest distinction you can make is time commitment since that's the main deciding factor between the "good" players and the "bad."

Hardcore players want valuable things that take a lot of time to complete as a means to separate and distinguish themselves from those who don't play as much (but also so they don't get bored, having breezed through all the content there is to offer).

Casual players want to make progress with limited log in times in mind. Guildleves were designed for casual players. There's only a limited amount you can get in a 36 hour period, they offer greater rewards than you'd get from grinding in the same amount of time, and in case of battle and field leves they make it easy to locate your objectives.

Hardcore players can breeze through guildleves too, but they can spend the rest of the time grinding if they want to make more progress before the next 36 hour window arrives.

Hardcore for me implies immense skill necessary not time sink. Monster Hunter is a hardcore game- if you dont do everything predicatively and within a second you will die, even then you can if you dont have someone watching your back.

FFXI had a lot of time sinks. Killing anything with a standard party was pretty easy (lets not get started on level grinding especially after AU) , 12 manning with a good group was easy for just about anything. FFXI was hardcore if you played it in low man groups or with random setups. The things that made XI stand out were the party emphasis, music and a dangerous world(everyone remembers the walk to jueno the first time).

So i guess for me the ideal balance is hardcore immense difficulty = faster but casual easy = longer grind.

ps more people=more difficult stops for me after about 12 because more than that with loot distribution becomes polisci 101 more than skill and cooperation.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

The term "hardcore" in video games may refer to complexity, but MMOs aren't particularly complex.

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maybe not the MMOs you've played, but i sure have played, and are still playing, one mmo that is quite complex.

What is your definition of hardcore? Making things take a long time? Huge time sinks do not make a video game hardcore or challenging. It just makes it tedious.