Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

To make it cheaper stick with lvl 3 acc det crit materia. U will b avoiding lvl 4 matz which is the expensive one. I went with max 31/44 on my drg since I don't do coils anymore. There's alot of speculation come the 24th that our weapon will b ilvl 135 which I hope is true. Another rumors I've heared is that we get ilvl 130 now and come the end of March we get ilvl 135.

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Handing out 135 Relic as early as 2.51 sounds doubtful. It will make the current raid weapons obsolete so early in this patch cycle. I've been wondering where all this speculation comes from.

Sorry but I just have a question as I have missed patch 2.45 when I read that they needed directional attacks for Dragoon but places on the forum, people are saying if Dragons don't move into position, that they are losing DPS. So are positions needed for Dragoon or not? Thank you!!

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Originally Posted by Miyu20

Sorry but I just have a question as I have missed patch 2.45 when I read that they needed directional attacks for Dragoon but places on the forum, people are saying if Dragons don't move into position, that they are losing DPS. So are positions needed for Dragoon or not? Thank you!!

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They're not as critical as they used to be, but are still a smaller dps loss.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

I'm concerned about gold, but my priority is to have a top weapon.

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You answered your own question here. The highest DPS stat mix for your weapon is without a doubt, 44 crit and 31 det. There is a reason that crit and det materia are so expensive. It is because EVERYONE is trying to use it to get the best weapon possible. The i135 Longinus is expected to have something like 39 Det, 53 Crit if you max Crit Det during your melding (this is speculation of course) but those stats will make it definitely better than the DW spear. Plus, there is more than enough accuracy on current gear for T10-T13 so accuracy is not really needed on your weapon.

Me personally, I would do something like (31 Det - 22 Acc - 22Crit) only because it is MASSIVELY cheaper. And if you adjust your gear correctly, you can minimize the DPS loss from taking the extra accuracy. This setup also allows you to be more flexible with new gear that comes out, but it is not 100% optimal. Current available gear means that you will likely have to take some skill speed, but it will be minimal.

In celebration of 500 pages in this cornerstone thread, I will be running my DRG once again! Let the love be rekindled...and many things meet the pointy end of my stick!

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Originally Posted by Orlandeu

Handing out 135 Relic as early as 2.51 sounds doubtful. It will make the current raid weapons obsolete so early in this patch cycle. I've been wondering where all this speculation comes from.

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That's what I've been saying too. People have been speculating it'll be 135 and some have apparently said that in one of the live letters they said 2.51 will be the last relic step before expac (which I never found a source for and don't believe because we still have an entire part two of 2.5 to go ~_~).

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

I'm concerned about gold, but my priority is to have a top weapon. I just don't feel like spending the money now and end up needing to re-spec the relic, and spend another big amount.

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If you don't want to spend all the money on perfect stats but desire perfect stats then your only option is to spiritbond the materia yourself :P

If you have some way of making money, even if its a small consistent amount, you could just hold back on other purchases when possible and just save up until you can afford it. People who put unfavourable stats on their relic usually did it so they could start farming light asap and respec later. I'm assuming prices for materia are comparable between your server and mine and accuracy is cheap as balls.

But at the same time the people who did stuff like that did it because the next relic stage was a pure weapon upgrade for them too where in your case you have the DW spear. If I was in your spot I would sit back and either spend time making gil to go crit/det or spend time spiritbonding.

Plus if Reis and I are right and the relic isn't gonna be 135 next week then you're seriously in no rush :P

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Originally Posted by siverstorm

That's what I've been saying too. People have been speculating it'll be 135 and some have apparently said that in one of the live letters they said 2.51 will be the last relic step before expac (which I never found a source for and don't believe because we still have an entire part two of 2.5 to go ~_~).

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"Patch 2.51 will be implemented before the release of Before the Fall part two. Patch 2.51 will introduce the Gold Saucer, which we’ll be showing a bit shortly. I believe some of you may have already completed your Zodiac weapons, but there is actually one more phase in the 2.0 series. "

from the 2.51 live letter thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...801-19-2015%29)

then directly in a famitsu interview (http://www.famitsu.com/news/201501/20069775.html)

──その前に、パッチ2.51でゾディアックウェポンのさらなる強化が可能になるわけですね。
吉田　パッチ2.51でゾディアックウェポンの“究極形”を完成させれば、『蒼天のイシュガルド』発売までは最強の状態が続くことになりますので、いろいろ活用していただければと思います。
──その“究極形”のアイテムレベルは……？
吉田　いつもどおりパッチノートまで公開できません。アイテムレベルはもちろんですが、“意思力特化”など、自分の好みに合わせて武器の強さを、ステータスを調整できるのがゾディアックウェポン最大のアドバンテージです。ほかの装備に合わせて調整していただければと思います。

tl from bg (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124...ions-Patch-2.5)


Q: Anyway, before that happens, there will be some further strengthening of the Zodiac weapons in patch 2.51.
Y: If you complete the "ultimate form" of the Zodiac Weapon in patch 2.51, you'll have the strongest versions leading into the release of Heavensward, so I think you'll have an advantage.

Q: And the item level of the ultimate form is...?
Y: As usual, we can't say until we publish the patch notes. Of course, the item level is important, but the intention of the Zodiac Weapon is that players can tweak the parameters to their liking by adjusting the stats to take advantage of their preferences and suit the other equipment they have.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

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Welp.

It'll probably be 135 then, else they'll risk scorning the non-raiders.

I still find it kinda silly to pump it out this early but ah well.

Am I the only person who believes that relic weapons should never be more powerful than raid weapons? I mean, the most difficult challenge in the game currently is completing T13. Completing your zodiac weapon might take a long time, but it is certainly not difficult, just long and drawn out. I would be ok if the weapons were equivalent to raid gear, but in this case (if they go to 135) they will just be flat out better due to higher stat allocation points. Seems like it kind of craps on the raiding community.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Am I the only person who believes that relic weapons should never be more powerful than raid weapons? I mean, the most difficult challenge in the game currently is completing T13. Completing your zodiac weapon might take a long time, but it is certainly not difficult, just long and drawn out. I would be ok if the weapons were equivalent to raid gear, but in this case (if they go to 135) they will just be flat out better due to higher stat allocation points. Seems like it kind of craps on the raiding community.

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As someone who got i115 HA and i135 DW weapons long, long before Nexus or this upcoming i135 relic, I'd say, I'm okay with relics being the best weapons in the game. It's something for the class specialists to have over the people who "just" get their gear from coil, and it helps eliminate long-term RNG a bit - IE my group's MNK and BRD haven't seen DW claws or bow yet in something like 15 clears or so, so they've primed up their relics to get their deserved BiS weapons.

I mean, at the end of the day, we're talking about pennies on the dollar with them being better than DW weapons in a lot of cases. In a raid scenario going from DW weapon to relic i135 is just gonna raise your deeps by 5-10 DPS probably at best (much much less for the DRG DW > relic), and while I value that, I don't think it's something to get upset about if someone has access to that who isn't a raider ... besides, they've got nothing good to use it on anyway :)

They need to appeal to both masses. Raiders and non-raiders. So they will try to make the gear sit on equal grounds. If they don't give non-raiders their own way to get a high ilvl weapon then it craps on the non-raiders (even if you literally don't need anything better than 110 to do non-raid content, but that's besides the point).

I thought last tier was done well, the 115 relics came out near the end of the second coil lifecycle.

Thank you for all the advise! I think that I was not clear enough (english is my second language >.<) so, yes, I'm poor, but I don't have a problem to grind all that gil to get the best relic around. I just don't want to do it, get a full det/crit Longinus and end up needind to respec because, I don't know, new gear lack accuracy :P. That is why I wanted to see what you guys were expecting for the upcoming patch, to help me guide my decision.

As I fell like I can always get accuracy (or SS) by other means, such gear and food, I think I canot make a mistake when I go for full det/crit. Thanks for all the help!!

About all the speculations, I don't really think that relic will be better then DW, at least before expansion. My thought is that, once the exp hits, it'll be upgradable and get better then DW, and I remember having heard ppl say that, for the ones who make all the way to Zodiac, it'll be easier to upgrade the next steps, plus they'll offer some sort of shortcut for those whithout the Zodiac.

And I got lucky with DW Spear, came in my second t13 kill. But I can say that if I was to get stuck with all that Ironworks acc for so long, I would be really mad, and that's why I plan to have my relic before next raid content.

If you're broke, the best way to optimise your relic is to get 19 SS on Novus, then throw everything into CRT/DET. 21 Accuracy at Zodiac Stage (and if it's i135, 23 acc), with gear optimisation, will guarantee you being 2 DPS higher than Dreadwyrm Spear, but 1-2 DPS less than a Max DET/CRT Zodiac. You also get to use Black Truffles for BiS, instead of Flints ^^

I went 19 Accuracy, 31 CRT, 25 DET at Novus, it's now 21 Acc, 34 CRT, 28 DET at Zodiac.

Took me so long to min/max this thing .-. because stat increases from Novus -> Zodiac change, depending on the stat melds on the sphere scroll (EG: 23~ DET get's a +2 Boost, but 25 get's a +3 boost, or something like that).

There's probably a better CRT/DET layout than what I did, but it's the best I could do.

for the people who already have t13 clears and their wep, i135 relic isn't really relevant or needed. they already cleared the most difficult content (that relies on ilvl tuning); 1%-2% extra dps doesn't matter. some people might get salty because i135 relic is better than their t13 dread weps, but the whole time>skill thing is only relevant if you actually need the weapon for progression, which isn't the case in 2.51 catchup patch, so it's basically getting upset over a small number difference in content they have on farm already

for the people who don't have all of fcob cleared, the relic is just part of the general idea to help people finish fcob (twines/coats from hunts, wod, etc) and also for the people who have bad luck with t13 weapon drops. it'll be basically 3 months since fcob released, so i don't think its a too early for i135 relics, especially since expansion is soon, and the devs seem intent on having people clear the content earlier and enjoy farming/using their gear, instead of really late to only have its rewards invalidated by 3.0

please mother of god can I get a dreadwyrm spear so I dont have to do my relic

i don't even have any atmas

tomorrows the day boys i'm feeling it

Try cursing the twelve right before opening the chest this week.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

please mother of god can I get a dreadwyrm spear so I dont have to do my relic

i don't even have any atmas

tomorrows the day boys i'm feeling it

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Yo, you been feeling something, but its not a spear.

If it is, well... good luck sir.

I hear the Lalafell sacrifice is a popular strategy....

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I hear the Lalafell sacrifice is a popular strategy....

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mi'qote for results

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

I hear the Lalafell sacrifice is a popular strategy....

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

mi'qote for results

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Compromise: Sacrifice both.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

please mother of god can I get a dreadwyrm spear so I dont have to do my relic

i don't even have any atmas

tomorrows the day boys i'm feeling it

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My gae bolg is also a lowly zenith atm. But i have the DW spear so i cant really complain. I still get salty at the thought of a non-raider getting a better weapon than i do, albeit a small difference :p

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

for the people who already have t13 clears and their wep, i135 relic isn't really relevant or needed. they already cleared the most difficult content (that relies on ilvl tuning); 1%-2% extra dps doesn't matter. snip

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In my case, I had a litle trouble with all that overcaped accuracy of the Ironworks spear, and the relic would be a great help on early t13 progression. So I'm reaaly preparing myself for next content.

got helm from t11 tonight. have the gloves,waist and helm now and dragoon was just my main alt class but i'll be switching it back to my main(from nin) after i get my zodiac this week about 1k light to go just

598 DPS T11!!!

No drops T10-12 again, T13 tomorrow. T10 and T11 I goofed pretty hard this week, T12 I beat my record, T13 we'll see tomorrow. One problem I'm always noticing is DPS keeps being pushed close to 51% on Bahamut right as Rage of Bahamut pops, so we've just stopped dps completely until that last add spawns, kill it, then push the phase. I'm kinda curious what you guys do.

And nice T11 run, you have the dreadwyrm spear right?

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

No drops T10-12 again, T13 tomorrow. T10 and T11 I goofed pretty hard this week, T12 I beat my record, T13 we'll see tomorrow. One problem I'm always noticing is DPS keeps being pushed close to 51% on Bahamut right as Rage of Bahamut pops, so we've just stopped dps completely until that last add spawns, kill it, then push the phase. I'm kinda curious what you guys do.

And nice T11 run, you have the dreadwyrm spear right?

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Yeah, I'm just missing the Dread neck and ring from being BIS, of all the things to be missing. Ramuh ring holding me back, would've broke 600 easy.
Would've broke 550 DPS on T12 but we had a death and didn't skip 2nd plume phase which tanked my DPS.
T13 We have the same problem on T13 with that last add, kind of just have to stop DPS :-/

Only drop I got this week was tank pants lol, still missing pants, boots, neck, ring wrists.

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

No drops T10-12 again, T13 tomorrow. T10 and T11 I goofed pretty hard this week, T12 I beat my record, T13 we'll see tomorrow. One problem I'm always noticing is DPS keeps being pushed close to 51% on Bahamut right as Rage of Bahamut pops, so we've just stopped dps completely until that last add spawns, kill it, then push the phase. I'm kinda curious what you guys do?

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make your raid push dps faster so you push 76% & gigaflare before 3rd megaflare in p1, which leaves you on pace to full dps and not run into any problems for the most part. the awkward megaflare push leaves you with bahamut at like 73% as gigaflare actually starts casting rather than 76%

if you push too fast even with that, then push before the rage and go into dbs with shadow lolol

My group has managed to put off getting to that point by using very inefficient strategies :)

I finally completed the left-side drops tonight! (pics) I... don't really like the look of the helm especially, but whatever. Also, I finally got the stinkin' drop from stinkin' Lost City so I finished up Longinus as well. It was a good day for me.

(Dear Based RNG, please stop pwning us all on drops, thank you.)

I also managed to finish the Longinus today, to great relief.

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/...B0D9FF20EAD19/

But I have a question, I have all the bis items from the det set build, except for the Dreadwyrm spear, as it refuses to drop.

Now a few pages back, it was mentioned that the Longinus has an overall greater dps weight than the Augmented spear when the accuracy isn't needed.

So I've been using the all the bis det set, except with augmented spear and dreadwyrm chest. However, now that I have longinus, would it be of benefit to use the Longinus and the Augmented iron works chest instead?

Thank you.

Between the two sets you propose, stick with the Augmented Ironworks. It's ~1% more DPS in simulation, and the skill speed is not so high as to cause headaches.

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

No drops T10-12 again, T13 tomorrow. T10 and T11 I goofed pretty hard this week, T12 I beat my record, T13 we'll see tomorrow. One problem I'm always noticing is DPS keeps being pushed close to 51% on Bahamut right as Rage of Bahamut pops, so we've just stopped dps completely until that last add spawns, kill it, then push the phase. I'm kinda curious what you guys do.

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I think most groups get to this point and ultimately most just throttle DPS, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, the enrage stays easy and unless you guys want a good clear time or good parses it's not too important.

If you DO want to push it, there are basically a few timings which vary in difficulty/shittiness

1. Pushing RIGHT after Rage. Terrible, I don't recommend this, Gigaflare + wyvern at the same time, the level of healing required to heal up the group after Rage going into Gigaflare, and then Gigaflare into Dive Bombs, while maintaining aggro, probably requires Shroud and a little luck.
2. Pushing right before Rage. The window for this is actually huge, basically if you get the Megaflare before the 2nd Rage it's within that window. It can be pretty hard but do-able, Dive Bombs are a pain to fight wyvern with efficiently and have all 8 members dodge, and you might need Cover on the WHM depending on if the wyvern spawned after AoE healing or not. This timing is annoying though, as I mentioned before you should only take this timing if you're just looking for good records/numbers, throttling for 20s is usually better than risking a 4m~ run on this situation.
3. Push before Megaflare. This is the goal if pushing wyvern, and the earlier you push the better! If you push early enough, wyvern spawns as the adds spawn, have one tank take the wyvern, one tank take both the other adds. You may have adds up while the Sins spawn but if you have enough DPS to get this push timing you have enough to kill everything before the Sin's eyes. If you push before Megaflare but RIGHT before Megaflare, the wyvern will spawn during dive bomb Megaflare of sorts, it's not necessarily hard but don't let your tanks get caught off guard.

It's easy with the 3rd timing, but I'd probably recommend most groups stick with throttling TBH.

Finally got the ring last night so first bis drg on my server. :D

i dont got issues like that cause i been doing sales `-`

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Since yesterday's T13 Kill which is the 5th in total for me and received the Helmet to finish my BiS Set. What sort of DPS should I be aiming for at a Dummy with X-Pot, Party and Poison Pot?

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I would probably say around 640 DPS. I'm almost BIS (missing neck and ring) still using the Ramuh 110 ring.
Managed 598 DPS on T11 yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Well after 3 Minutes, 1 Member in the Party, 1 X-Pot and Black Truffle Risotto Food, I only managed to hit 615. Had no Poisoning Pots, but would that increase it that much?
I'm following the Rotation of this Thread and a long time ago I used it sort of wrong, cause of refreshing Buffs/Debuffs too early, but after some advice I'm not doing any kind of these mistakes anymore,
so am not sure what else could be the reason for the lack of DPS on a Dummy?
If 640 DPS should be the actual DPS to aim for that is.

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A lil better RNG and if u waited until u got another B4B off before u cut the parse off I'd say you'd hit 640 no problem, especially if u throw in mercy strokes, which on a "DUMMY" I don't see why you wouldn't. A lot of people like to argue that it's cheating for some reason.

bis after 5 t13 kills `-`

rip life

No it isn't - You're telling me you can Mercy Stroke 240/90 = 2.666r+ times during a single target boss encounter?

The main problem with Mercy Stroking a dummy and then using that in a meaningful comparison with other classes is a NIN or BRD doing their enders will horribly skew their results, and it's crazy fight dependent how many Misery's Ends a BRD will get per your Mercy Strokes.

IMO best to keep finishers out of a dummy parse and then just consider the damage outside of your results.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Well after 3 Minutes, 1 Member in the Party, 1 X-Pot and Black Truffle Risotto Food, I only managed to hit 615. Had no Poisoning Pots, but would that increase it that much?
I'm following the Rotation of this Thread and a long time ago I used it sort of wrong, cause of refreshing Buffs/Debuffs too early, but after some advice I'm not doing any kind of these mistakes anymore,
so am not sure what else could be the reason for the lack of DPS on a Dummy?
If 640 DPS should be the actual DPS to aim for that is.

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It's definitely not 640.
I have the same set-up as you (xpot, food, party, no_mercy), but I use a crafted filler and only do a max of 610-620 with a reasonable Crit rate.
But I have absolutely the worst ping on the planet (as mentioned a few pages back), so my Jumps/SSD/DFD will always clip into the next GCD.
I would say a solid 620, so you're on the right track.

630-640 shouldn't be too far away with a finished gearset imo

with xpf, im doing 605-615 with zodiac (35det/24crit/24sksp) and i110 choker, no mercy stroke. getting dread spear and dread choker would push that to 630+ at least i think