Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mibhas

You should be getting about 700 DPS with that gear. 800 once you can upgrade the weapon.

---

She's trolling you, don't listen to her.

What bloody casual pulls 800 DPS? 1000+ DPS or you're a loldrg.

I hate to ask, but what kinda DPS should I do with this gear until I run out of TP after I invigorate correctly until it's not possible anymore?

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PLD8

I have been hovering around 605-620 so just wondering could I improve, I used no pots, not food and no mercy stroke. Only done a few parses though as I can't parse myself.

Sounds alright.

I've been thinking about how much latency affects a person's damage output, because I had a friend increase his dps by 10% by switching servers.
I strictly follow the rotation to the dot, but I notice people manage to parse slightly higher on dummies.
I know RNG could also be a factor, but I tried to scrutinise this by looking at the damage to the critical hit %.

Given if a fight on average is 10 minutes.
10min = 600sec
600s / 2.5s gcd = 240 moves

Now my ping is ~240ms to the servers.

600s + (240gcd * 0.240ms) = 600 + 57.6s, thus it takes me 657.6 seconds to theoretically execute those 240 moves

Comparatively, a person native/closer to the servers.

100ms
600 + (240 * 0.100) = 624s

50ms
600 + (240 * 0.050) = 612s

If I take the difference in duration as a percentage increase relative to dps (don't know how correct this is).
240ms to 100ms: 5.11% (@620dps increases to 652dps)
240ms to 50ms: 6.93% (@620dps increases to 663dps)

How practical would this be?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

Here's the only two crafted sets I personally recommend:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAAG - A bit pricey, but solid

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAF8 - Cheapest set. Best Cost/DPS ratio.




:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

---

Couldn't you meld Skill Speed 3 instead of 4 on all meldable items in the first set and the loss would be around 3? That could be another way to save money on that set but still be over 390 skill speed?

I don't believe the impact is as much as you've mentioned as there's actually ability queueing in this game (Hence why you should be spamming your abilities). But yes, there will be an increase of DPS with a much lower latency. For Ninja's though, those numbers would be accurate. JP ninja's literally have no latency with Mudras so their DPS is much higher than their EU/NA counterparts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noxotic

Couldn't you meld Skill Speed 3 instead of 4 on all meldable items in the first set and the loss would be around 3? That could be another way to save money on that set but still be over 390 skill speed?

---

Unfortunately, melding III's over IV's would render them trash, lol, and will be replaced by i130 counterparts. They have to be melded specifically like that, otherwise they'll not be BiS

Individually though no? Mind you I'm not as in depth as you are with BiS Calc and such, but together as a whole doesn't that set hold up better than the i130 when put together still?

Precisely why I never hopped on the ninja train. Mudras will not work for life of me.
That, and the fact that there would a permanent thorn on my side knowing that I could never min/max like everyone else.

The play style of a Dragoon fits higher latency perfectly, slower gcd, hard hits.
Even so, I only wish I could squeeze those last few percentages, but alas I don't have endless wealth.

another week with no drops boys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

another week with no drops boys

---

Don't worry, you'll get it in time for 3.0 when it's completely redundant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

another week with no drops boys

---

The struggle is real

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

another week with no drops boys

---

I got the Dreadwyrm pants this week, But still missing DW Headpiece,Choker and Belt =(.`

Pants will be Glamour only as i alredy have the poetics one =P.

I got like 25 t10-t13 kills with main+alt and I still have never seen gloves, spear, bracelet and boots at all. It's getting absurd.

I'm missing spear, gloves, helm, boots, and bracelet on main, aka they never dropped at all. You think after like 14 weeks of clears on one character, shit would drop.

I just got my spear this week, and i am only one twine away from BiS(for the boots), but i am too lazy to do hunts.

RNG yo.

Anyways, how do people handle the add phase on T13?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

I got like 25 t10-t13 kills with main+alt and I still have never seen gloves, spear, bracelet and boots at all. It's getting absurd.

I'm missing spear, gloves, helm, boots, and bracelet on main, aka they never dropped at all. You think after like 14 weeks of clears on one character, shit would drop.

---

Yep, I've not seen the Chest, Neck, Ring, Legs, Boots, Spear. This loot system is unbelievably bad.

On the topic of DPS, I'm curious: with this gear setup, around what should I be expecting for a baseline dummy parse, assuming no food/party buff/pots/Mercy Stroke? I haven't had the chance to have anyone parse me on a dummy yet, and while my parses in actual battles are always near or at the top of the list, I'm not sure what numbers I should be aiming for just as a baseline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daweism

Yep, I've not seen the Chest, Neck, Ring, Legs, Boots, Spear. This loot system is unbelievably bad.

---

Its just shitty RNG :/
My Scholar hasnt seen ANY of his BiS drops either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

On the topic of DPS, I'm curious: with this gear setup, around what should I be expecting for a baseline dummy parse, assuming no food/party buff/pots/Mercy Stroke? I haven't had the chance to have anyone parse me on a dummy yet, and while my parses in actual battles are always near or at the top of the list, I'm not sure what numbers I should be aiming for just as a baseline.

---

About 500 or so. Somewhere in that ballpark. I don't think "aiming" for a number is particularly useful, though, since you don't want to base your judgment off "that one with a bunch of crits."

Hey guys, is there a way to set up the parser so I don't have the merge the fights at times?

Since, for example.

Whenever Garuda jumps to do, her shriek, it stops the current parser and sets up another one. I have to merge them myself at the end of the fight. Or click all (Which is not a good way of finding out real DPS, if I am not mistaken)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Hey guys, is there a way to set up the parser so I don't have the merge the fights at times?

Since, for example.

Whenever Garuda jumps to do, her shriek, it stops the current parser and sets up another one. I have to merge them myself at the end of the fight. Or click all (Which is not a good way of finding out real DPS, if I am not mistaken)?

---

Options > Main table / Encounters > General.

Check "Number of seconds to wait after the last combat action to begin a new enconter" and set it to 30 (seconds).
Also, check "Usa a internal timer to count..."

Hey Dervy, when you start the new DRG Thread could you please just put in some DPS numbers. Something like approximately expected DPS at Ilvl 110, 115, 120, etc. Maybe the thread finally gets rid of "is 650dps any good? :cool:" and "how much dps should I do :confused:".

About that pentamelded stuff I have to disagree with Dervy actually.
Its like the same thing with Zodiac weapons. If you dont have the money to maximaze it there might be way to get a decent compromise.
Take the ring for example. You could get +3 crit and +3 acc if you put in lvl IV materias in slot 4&5 instead of lvl III. Each cost about 500k - 600k compared to 6k - 15k (on my server). I dont even want to guess how much gil you gotta spent for those 3 crit and 3 acc.
In my opinion its better to use lvl III as soon as you reach 11% chance, but that depends on your wallet and your will to spent gil of course. I also dont want to use flint caviar. Its about 50k here which makes it not worth it in my opinion.

I am kind of greedy about stats too, but as soon as I think about spending like 6million gil for 3 more crit which only lasts untill the add on... nah, I wont do that.

Anyways, for those who dont want to spent that much money or simply dont have it, here is one option to use pentamelded stuff, get a decent set and dont waste too much money. It follows the rule of not using lvl IV materia in <12% slots and not using flint caviar. it shows the comparison to the non crafted bis set.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PM4Y

The thing is, often times unless you go for max melds on crafted stuff, it'll have a lower total stat weight than its i130 equivalent. For example, my crafted earrings have a stat weight of 26.445 which is 0.05 less than the Augmented Ironworks ones (26.495). Thus, I basically gain 16 Vitality and lose 13 accuracy. Had I gone for cheaper melds, I would've lose a lot more DPS from switching to these.

If you don't want to go max melds, just stick with i130 stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Martyn

Hey Dervy, when you start the new DRG Thread could you please just put in some DPS numbers. Something like approximately expected DPS at Ilvl 110, 115, 120, etc. Maybe the thread finally gets rid of "is 650dps any good? :cool:" and "how much dps should I do :confused:".

---

I don't think that will help. One reason is because item level is a deceptive number. Not all slots are made equal, for one: jewelry counts the same as a chest piece, while providing less than half the stats. And there is a significant difference in DPS between i110 with a Liberator versus i110 with a High Allagan Spear. Another reason is it doesn't translate to fight performance all that well. Even an innocent question like "what DPS should I do in T10" is going to be confounded by factors like "do you tank it on top of the puddle?" and "how many times do you get stunned for Wild Charge?".

If you want to know how much DPS you should do on a dummy, try it in-game, because that's 100% accurate to the game and it's not unrealistic to expect a near-perfect performance on a dummy (just keep trying). If you are trying to test a gearset you don't have, well, it takes a simulator to get in the right ballpark (they can't be super accurate until we have a super accurate damage formula, which we currently don't). Unfortunately, the sims that are available have some significant problems, sometimes with accuracy, sometimes with user-friendliness.

I think http://sim.ffxivguild.net/ would be okay if (and only if) several things about it got changed, some trivial some not.

Yan..

I got my spear. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

Snip

I think http://sim.ffxivguild.net/ would be okay if (and only if) several things about it got changed, some trivial some not.

---

Yeah the differences between what the sims parse and what I actually parse with my gear is pretty drastic (in some sims it's like 40 points or more under what I regularly do unless the seeds are factoring random mechanics, im not sure), while I love what it is and what it does immensely it's completely unreliable from a drg perspective. I remember it being somewhat close last tier (still off by a large margin, but much more reliable).

...after doing some research before making this post I saw an issue on his github about the changes to some classes from since 2.4 and I think that's the reason why it falls short by so much now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunncan

Options > Main table / Encounters > General.

Check "Number of seconds to wait after the last combat action to begin a new enconter" and set it to 30 (seconds).
Also, check "Usa a internal timer to count..."

---

Thanks for that, got it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siverstorm

Yeah the differences between what the sims parse and what I actually parse with my gear is pretty drastic (in some sims it's like 40 points or more under what I regularly do unless the seeds are factoring random mechanics, im not sure), while I love what it is and what it does immensely it's completely unreliable from a drg perspective. I remember it being somewhat close last tier (still off by a large margin, but much more reliable).

...after doing some research before making this post I saw an issue on his github about the changes to some classes from since 2.4 and I think that's the reason why it falls short by so much now.

---

There are a few bugs/updates with DRG that I could fix right off the bat, it's just I'm so bad at using git properly. The copy I use personally has a few duct-tape-tier fixes, and certain results seem reasonable (can't tell if they're good, mind) when I use the "run 100000s of sims" option--this takes my personal machine a couple of minutes to run, so it's much too computationally prohibitive to make available on the web version.

When the damage formula is changed, it produces stat weights for WD/STR/DET/CRIT that sound vaguely plausible. The skill speed values must be regarded as pure balonium until the simulation is more properly sensitive to small changes in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siverstorm

Yeah the differences between what the sims parse and what I actually parse with my gear is pretty drastic (in some sims it's like 40 points or more under what I regularly do unless the seeds are factoring random mechanics, im not sure), while I love what it is and what it does immensely it's completely unreliable from a drg perspective. I remember it being somewhat close last tier (still off by a large margin, but much more reliable).

...after doing some research before making this post I saw an issue on his github about the changes to some classes from since 2.4 and I think that's the reason why it falls short by so much now.

---

Yeah, I was asking because I'd tried that website and it told me I should be doing 445, which seemed way too low considering I was doing 485 in T8 when I was about 7 ilvls below what I am now. Good to know that it is in fact inaccurate where DRGs are concerned!

NIN friend just hit 550 on T13 unmerged. What's the closest us as DRGs have been to that? That's without getting any earthshakers or anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noxotic

NIN friend just hit 550 on T13 unmerged. What's the closest us as DRGs have been to that? That's without getting any earthshakers or anything.

---

can you link a parse

I'd think that the other people in the party would have to be doing less damage during dives+adds for a person to do 550

I have done 507 with earthshakers but I think it all depends on raid dps during dives.

Our BLM takes joy in stealing add phase DPS from the rest of us ._.;;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickyguo

can you link a parse

I'd think that the other people in the party would have to be doing less damage during dives+adds for a person to do 550

I have done 507 with earthshakers but I think it all depends on raid dps during dives.

---

Or draw out the last phase A LOT - if you don't die you can make up for all of the downtime, or at least, most of it, it it gets drawn out long enough.

Ways to have a higher T13 parse:

Limited/no Earthshakers (or at least being Covered)
Having another melee do LB2/LB3 in final phase (whichever your group gets)
Doing no orbs, running out for orbs = DPS loss
No stopping DPS of any kind for an easier transition
Not breaking off to fight the wyverns that spawn or moving boss
Having crappy DoM (ALL DoM, not just BLM/SMN) in add phase who can indeed steal everyone's numbers, or just crappy other players who will let you have longer uptime in an otherwise fixed amount of time
Minimal/no Megaflares, depending on stack location/point in your rotation it can be pretty bad to get Megaflares
More uptime on boss in final phase. The more time you're fighting the boss here, the less % of the fight the downtime of the add phase is
Typically not a big deal but occasionally doing a pylon/tower/exploding thingy can hurt positionals so the less you do the better, technically

I actually really dislike T13 number comparisons between groups and even repeated personal numbers, it's one of the most RNG and strategy impacted turns in the game even if at first glance it's just pew pew mostly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

I actually really dislike T13 number comparisons between groups and even repeated personal numbers, it's one of the most RNG and strategy impacted turns in the game even if at first glance it's just pew pew mostly.

---

So true.

I'm the only Melee of my group. If I don't get the first Earthshaker, I'm sure the PLD will cover me if I get the second, so I can pop my CDs asap. For add phase, I usually just helo to kill first and third adds, don't ask me why the other DPS can take one of them but not all :P

3rd Phase, my BLM is brute.

Finally, for the last phase, that's where I get angry. Our MT is just bad at moving, and due to his lack of skills dealing with MegaFlare+Tethers, I need to back off for Megaflare (like FAR FAR away, or he'll just kill himself if I get pool/random damage), and it hurts my DPS badly. Specially on phase 3~4 transition, where I need to wait until the first Earthshaker comes out to pop my burst, since I can't hit that Full Trust + BfB due to first Megaflare disconect. It really pisses me off. Also, we stack in midle for that phase, one more disconect.

http://i.imgur.com/gLdOe4u.jpg

They were helping someone else get their clear so that could be why other DPS was low, iunno. I wish I was in that run to see it though haha.

You just described myself on t13, lol

So many wipes due to tethers.... having two BLMs during p3 doesn't help either

You know what's really upsetting? When you finally get a piece of loot from Coil, but it's not even worth equipping because your crafted piece gives you a greater gear-set DPS output .-.

Got spear and chest tonight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervy

You know what's really upsetting? When you finally get a piece of loot from Coil, but it's not even worth equipping because your crafted piece gives you a greater gear-set DPS output .-.

---

I have a question about the Platinum Earring of Slaying. The CritIVx2 Accx2 SSx1 meld is supposed to be part of the expensive crafted BiS set and the CritIVx2 Accx1 SSx2 the "cheap" one? I've been lucky with my crafted belt but the first Accuracy meld on the earring is being brutal.