SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

Your pet is the biggest individual source of damage you get in this game as a SMN. By definition that makes it your primary offensive tool.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

Your pet is the biggest individual source of damage you get in this game as a SMN. By definition that makes it your primary offensive tool.

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I think he means that even if the damage from the pet is significant, the gameplay interaction with the pet is very limited. The pet is mostly passive damage.
The combat design is mostly focused on working with dots rather than the Summon itself. To be honest, I was hoping for a really innovative approach with the summons and perhaps a whole new type of class.

On the other side, I think it's pointless to whine about it at this point. There's no way they're going to scrap the SMN now or rename it.
That's really the main problem with these threads since beta. They are so adamant that SMN needs a complete revamp cause it didn't meet their initial expectation. It's juvenile, really.
Despite what they think, SE worked hard on the overall job even if you believe if borrows from another class in a different game. It takes a lot to implement and balance any class within a game. There is no way they are going to scrap it.

Why not just ask for more interesting SMN interaction as the game gets expanded upon?
Who would even disagree with you if you did? If the community generally agrees as well, the designers can then keep it in mind going forward.
The class at launch doesn't need to be what it ends up as.

I'm sorry if there's a sense of urgency involved making the SMN more about the Summons, but you're not going to get anywhere acting like the sky is falling until that point.
And you have to work with the established base design.
SMN also fills a niche of a sustained single target caster with multi-target capability. As more jobs are released, it will not have to be pushed into this role.

Side-note:
Talking about Warlocks. WoW's revamp of Demonology Warlocks would actually work quite well here. Though it is still dot based, you would have phases of burst by transforming into the demon.
Instead, SMN could have dot phases but also one where they interact with an empowered summon. Something like FFX and FF13's use of controlling summon's actions.
The current abilities would change while under this effect, which is how you can add to a design without scrapping the last one or having button/ability bloat.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Side-note:
Talking about Warlocks. WoW's revamp of Demonology Warlocks would actually work quite well here. Though it is still dot based, you would have phases of burst by transforming into the demon.
Instead, SMN could have dot phases but also one where they interact with an empowered summon. Something like FFX and FF13's use of controlling summon's actions.
The current abilities would change while under this effect, which is how you can add to a design without scrapping the last one or having button/ability bloat.

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That sounds entertaining. A whole new mechanic as the pet struggles to control the player with a pet bar, dodging floor AOE, etc. Meanwhile, tag a few new skills into the empowered summon and up the damage, make the player action bar switch out for the summon's actions entirely.

Wasn't a big fan of Demonology warlock personally (though it was the most fun spec) simply because, again, it focused more on you than the pet. It made your pet slightly stronger, but besides that it was a new rotation focused on you becoming a demon. The sad thing is hunter pets were still stronger.

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Originally Posted by matu

This is not the only class suffering from a weak class issue, for example I also find BLM pointless vs THM, while THM brings in a solid set of skills BLM only adds some -very situational- skills with almost 0 synergy with the base class skills, it feels like they just rolled a dice and thrown in some random skills. I really hope they will listen and actually overhaul SMN and BLM job skills.

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Convert, Manawall, and Flare are situational? I can tell you from experience that I use all three of these VERY regularly. In fact, I would go as far as to say that at least Manawall and Flare are crucial. I'll give you that Apocostasis and Freeze are borderline useless although I do sometimes use Apoc on Twintania to help with Fireball damage.

If I could play a WoW warlock here, I would be much more in love with my summoner. I would immediately come back and play this game.

I think people can draw similarities between classes here and in WoW, but regardless of your feelings for the game, there is no comparison between WoW's class design and FF14's.

WoW is a world class MMO and its mechanics are far more fun. I would kill to actually play an affliction lock. If you look at the differences between this game and WoW, the fact that almost every class has a secondary resource (or at least a fun one), is a huge difference, as well as the fact that hey, look, there are actually procs in WoW as opposed to the 4 procs that exist in FF14, spread over 2 classes. While in WoW almost every ability has some interaction with another ability, or recharges or consumes a resource, and each class has at least 4 procs, let alone amongst classes.

Also tanking in this game has got to be the most boring thing in existence. Granted, WoW tanking was like that for the longest time as well, same with WoW healing when it was all about throughput before. Now its shifted to the many, many different healing tools that we have (as opposed to, two healers that are almost identical), and the fact that its less about tanks being spiked down in 2 seconds and more about using the right heal at the right time.

That being said, demo lock would be an interesting direction for summoners to go, esp if different summons granted you different forms (or powers while in those forms).

This represents a huge shift in the FF14 philosophy (well thats not the right word, but I mean general concept of how combat is done) though, and unless there is a drastic overhaul combat will continue to be, in the words of my friend, "a DDR game", while you twiddle your thumbs waiting for the extremely long GCD.

2.5 second GCD has got to be one of the worst ideas ever. Furthermore, capping resource on DPS, with no ability to regen it actively (no invig doesn't count, unless your idea of active is using an ability every 2 minutes), leads to frustration and boring gameplay. No it is not "skillfull" to have to only use your most efficient abilities. No it is not skillful, nor is it fun, to cut out my skills or stop AoEing or actually sit there and do nothing.

Sorry about the rant, I guess it was a bit off topic.

But yes, if we actually played like affliction warlocks (we're not, we're like level 2 affliction warlocks, except oh wait, even level 2 warlocks have more fun abilities than we do, and an actual resource), I would be tremendously happy. But since we're not, my love for this game is rapidly waning =(

As a side note, my point was that copying from something that is proven to be good is MUCH better than coming up with something "unique" that sucks. And frankly, its much more efficient to imitate.

Everyone (well, a lot of the naysayers) is already saying they made a WoW clone. Well, I'd rather it be a GOOD WoW clone than the half assed one it is right now.

So, I am not replying to anyone in particular here, I just figured I would give my thoughts.

I am in agreement that this class is totally lacking any sort of interest, I am struggling to level up my Arcanist, and I have 5 other Classes at 50.

I thought I would reflect back on all the ways that Summoner has been used in previous FF games, and see if I can propose another way of using the class that may feel more active, or interesting, while sticking with how Squaresoft/Square-Enix has presented us the Job in the past.

FF III: Summoner/Evoker - Think Black Mage with Only AOE Spells. High Cost, High Damage. The Summon was a single cast.

FF IV: Rydia/Caller - Summons were a single cast spell, All targets, High MP Cost, HEAVY damage. (Bahamut!) Some times a Curative buff as well.
They gave some of the characters in this game Dual Jobs, Such as White Mage/Ranger, and in this case, Rydia was a Black Mage/Summoner. The way you utilized this effectively, was to Manage Rydia's MP with spell casts that were relevant. Don't over Nuke with a Summon, use a Black Magic. and such.

FF V: All summons were a Damage Spell that were All targets, and High MP Cost. (Noticing a pattern here?)

FF VI: Espers were a totally new way to look at Summoning. One time use per character, per fight, but same style as FF III/V. Single Cast, All Targets, High Cost Nuke/Buff.

FF VII: Summon Materia early on, acted like the All Target Linked Black Magic spells. Ifrit was basically Fire 2 + ALL built into 1 Materia. But the MP cost was, again, huge.
Later on, of course we all probably remember how agonizingly powerful/Long winded Knights of the Round was. But realistically Summons were still the same pattern as the previous games.
Single Cast, High MP Cost, All Target Nuke spells/Buffs.

FF VIII: I didn't play this game long enough to speak form personal experience, HOWEVER! I do like the concept from what I have read. (For an MMO at least.)
This is highly different from the first 5 Iterations of the job, and doesn't get returned to until FF X.

FF IX: Garnet, and Eiko - Summons in this game has the same exact usage as they did for Rydia in FF IV, with 1 additional bonus. Trance Casts. Trance versions of the Summon had additional effects, the most memorable to me personally was Bahamut, as he stuck around, and just out of nowhere attacks again for full power, until the battle ends. (I literally solo'd the final boss of the Story line with Garnet ONLY because of Trance Bahamut + Auto Regen)
If the Limit Break system is ever expanded, I would love to see something like this for Summoners.
but to Re-Cap: Single Cast, All Target, High Cost Nuke/Buff.

FF X: TOTAL Job Re-Imagining. Summons replaced your party when cast, and you were now in complete control of them for the duration of their HP/MP. Which ever ran out first.
Persistent after the Cast, Party Replacement, Low Cost (Since you only "pay" for them once, unless Yojimo!) High Damage.

FF XI: Summoner became a Pet class in this game. And in all my time playing, the Ruby Never once dropped for me. =(

FF XIII: Summons acted as Limit Breaks, and stuck around just the same way they did in FF X.

So, after all that, it seems more like Summoner in MOST of the games is typically an AOE Black Mage with High Burst Damage, but not much in the path of Utility, or MP efficiency. And I never once see anything DoT related, unless you look at XI.

My thought would be to re-work the Summoner Job to be a Hybrid between FF IX and FF X.
Have some of the Summon's act as Damage Spells similarly to Black Mage, which cause different Aether Effects Akin to Astral Fire/Umbral Ice, but not so blatantly Copied.
I would consider making them a series of effects that Empower your next summon like,

Ifrit - Aether Blaze I/II/III: Your next Summon Adds an additional "X" Potentcy over 30 Seconds DoT. EG Ifrit Re-Cast would be a Fire DoT, but Sheeva would be an Ice DoT

Sheeva - Aether Shatter I/II/III: Your next Summon causes an a Vaulnerability to Elemental Damage of the type dealt. (Synergize with Black Mage as well)

Titan - Aether Earth I/II/III:
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Then for the some conversely interesting effects, Have the Primal actually stay persistent If cast with it's own Aether Element at the 3rd Stack.

At this point, the player swaps places with the Primal, and you take direct control of them Primal for a short period of time. Either 1 - 3 minutes. This can open up a plethora of Party wide buffs, or unique play styles.

Thats my 2gil. =)

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Why is Contagion so good? Because it's +15 seconds to all your dots. Multiply the DoT potency of each dot by 5 (they each tick 5 more times), add them all up, and Contagion is effectively a nuke of its own that hits for that much potency

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This implies you have 15 seconds of dot down time without garuda, which is not true. The only dps you are gaining from contagion is the time saved in having to reapply dots slightly less often.

If someone has already pointed this out, ignore. I didn't read through 40 odd pages.

To be fair to Contagion, while it only gives you ~2-3 GCD's per cast, it also saves you quite a large amount of mp.

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Originally Posted by Omagana

This implies you have 15 seconds of dot down time without garuda, which is not true. The only dps you are gaining from contagion is the time saved in having to reapply dots slightly less often.

If someone has already pointed this out, ignore. I didn't read through 40 odd pages.

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What about Contagion followed by Bane? You save 1 AetherFlow (More or less) and you can use a Fester instead of reapplying Dot then Bane.. So yeah extra dmg

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

If the Limit Break system is ever expanded, I would love to see something like this for Summoners.

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That would actually be really cool. BLM gets Meteor LB, SUM gets a bad ass Esper or whatever you wanna call it LB. Could be the same AoE damage effect just different animations to spice things up a bit.

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Originally Posted by Darkkos

What about Contagion followed by Bane? You save 1 AetherFlow (More or less) and you can use a Fester instead of reapplying Dot then Bane.. So yeah extra dmg

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Quite true, but I was referring to single target DPS. My point was the OP's logic on contagion was flawed in regards to single target (at least that is how it appears when reading)
Edit: Also, the OP does mention bane with contagion.

MyHappy made a pretty decent video comparison of Garuda and Ifrit Egi here

Tbh, a lot of good points were made for and against the SMN in this thread. Just clarifying before anything on my end this is not about the actual damage of the SMN, as far as I'm concerned it is a good competitor in the dps aspect.

Firstly, since this mmo focuses on a more active approach than classical turn based systems, it is without saying that niches and mechanics that are unexpected need to be introduced or even removed to adjust to the correct game-play style, hence I believe it was clearly decided that for the usual DoT class, SMN's would be the best current fit. In a way, it makes sense since it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the BLM, however on note I do agree that SMN right now still feels detached from its pet to the point that in fights you can nearly completely forget about it aside from the occasional heal/contagion or random stun. It is sad that, indeed, the SMN does not feel as it should as compared to the typical class we all know and love, but as a previous poster mentioned, a pet class is extremely difficult to balance.

With healing, like the SCH, I think the execution was a step in the right direction since it really feels a part of the class, sure you can leave it doing its own thing, but if you sit commanding it you will definitely notice a difference all round. I just don't see that happening with the SMN pets, unfortunately, and simply increasing damage to the point where the caster supports the pet, will ,as mentioned, also possibly leave the caster sitting and watching the fight.

I spoke to a few fellow summoners on the matter about possible suggestions, since any complaint should be at least backed up by our own wild fantasies (:P) , but realistically, if the egi system is to be maintained, it would be nice to see some of their abilities perhaps replaced with ones that offer synergy to the caster, a good example would be the party buffs from selene as a SCH. Contagion is a great example of a skill with synergy, but unfortunately in end-game, that is possibly one of the few and only abilities across most of the summons which retain that synergy.

Another radical idea was discussed was to look at what would happen if, say, the entire egi system were to be revamped. Now before people go crazy, I am also aware at how improbable something like this suggestion would be since the game is in full swing. However, anyway, here's a lick of insanity.

If the egi system were to be removed/changed, as mentioned due to bad synergy with how the class feels, and the caster was kept exactly as it is, the extra 'summons' you get through the SMN line acts as actual skills. That didn't make much sense, so let me go into a bit more detail. Instead of, say, summoning ifrit egi, when you activate the skill you summon ifrit/egi to do something similar to what enkindle does albeit the summon doesn't stick around, this will give it the old nostalgic feel where most of the summons were usually abilities casted by the summons before they disappeared again, this would allow you to actually include it in your rotation with other summons and your own skills, albeit damage obviously would need to be adjusted.

However on that note, of course the idea of a constant pet will be removed, which will take away from the experience of many. Another idea flung around was similar to the FFX approach. Again, no egi's as usual, however after dotting up what you need, you could use the summon as a switch mechanic, that being you swap out your caster character for the actual summon, best way to explain it would be literally if you played as the ifrit egi (hopefully something a bit better looking but that's my own personal woe) which would be a fire-dmg melee type with a certain skill set, whereas Garuda would possibly be a ranged type with similar mechanics to wind-burst etc... Perhaps you could say the influence would be similar to the druids in WoW? I dunno as said stroke of insanity perhaps.

While I haven't played summoner at 50 in a raiding environment I have a few ideas just from the small experience I have.

Leave us with Carbuncles as pets, the tank pet and caster pet have a perfectly effective kit for parties and trash in dungeons/raids.

Our enkindle ability should be given to us at 50 and should be three abilities (Enkindle Ifrit, Enkindle Titan, Enkindle Garuda.) Or give them at the same levels they are now, but just make them do what I posted below.

This ability would transform our current carbuncle into an avatar of the primal we choose, they would need to be resized to reflect the increase in power. This ability would last two minutes and the pets would get a completely different kit (not just reskins of carbuncle abilities like what titan and garuda get.) Would remain on a five minute cooldown.

Each avatar would provide a unique combat advanatage and depending on the situation would need to be summoned to battle. Titan would be primarily a defensive avatar, attacks would reduce damage the boss inflicts, place status effects on the boss and boost the group/raid with more HP and defenses. Ifrit would be more of a melee oriented buff and a single target attacker. (becuase thats where he stands) increased melee critical chance, attack speed, reduced emnity. Garuda would be a caster buff, increased critical chance, skill speed and reduced emnity as well. However, Garuda would be more designed as an AOE caster rather than a single target avatar like Ifrit.

This would change our dynamic as summoners and provide us not only a damage role but a "support" role as well. Depending on the situation and the fight we would need to use a different avatar to support combat. Brings us more in line with the true FF "Summoner" we've come to love. Our pets in their current form are just dps boosters and bring nothing that can really change the tide of a battle the way summons are supposed to in Final Fantasy.

Rather than just making the pets ..... well.....pets.... Make them actual summons and avatars of powerful creatures that can really sway a battle your way when used properly.

A few ability changes I would like to see are:

Bane: Remove the aetherflow requiremenet and add a 20sec CD. Makes it not spammable and only capable of spreading fresh dots. Also, remove the potential to reset the dots on the target.

Fester: Keep fester as is, but give it the potential to reset dots and increase the chance to 20%.

Energy Drain: Everyone is always looking for a spell from summoners to front end damage on those fights when you need to burst something down NOW. This is where energy drain comes in. Add Energy Drain II to our kit. This ability would no longer restore mana to us and in exchange increase the damage the ability does. Leave Energy Drain I unaffected.

my biggest problem with summoner is how boring it is. since it's already somewhat of a hybrid with it's ability to heal why not add some support abilities like in ff11? hell directly copy if you want. ifrit=aoe dmg boost,titan=aoe stoneskin,garuda=uh....no blink so maybe aoe featherfoot? basically i want something to do when bane is on cooldown that isnt ruin spam.

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Originally Posted by Vermithrax

sorry for multiple posts....character limit....

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Protip: Edit your original post, it allows you to bypass the character limit.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

my biggest problem with summoner is how boring it is.

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Personally, I find it quite entertaining. I like the wide variety of stuff you have to do, all the various cooldowns, timers and counters you need to keep track of and balance properly to ensure everything weaves together properly. I find most other classes boring in comparison, because it is just a simple skill rotation.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

since it's already somewhat of a hybrid with it's ability to heal why not add some support abilities like in ff11? hell directly copy if you want. ifrit=aoe dmg boost,titan=aoe stoneskin,garuda=uh....no blink so maybe aoe featherfoot?

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Arcanist, the base class, has a small splash of white magic. (Physick) It is a DPS class, not a healing class. (Scholar) If anything, AoE Stoneskin and AoE Featherfoot would be more in line with Scholar. I'd much prefer Summoner to remain a DPS class, and think that when you dilute it with too much support nonsense, you end up with a worthless piece of crap like it was in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

basically i want something to do when bane is on cooldown that isnt ruin spam.

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Thunder, Tri-disaster, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, Fester, Spur, Rouse, Aerial Blast and Enkindle?

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Protip: Edit your original post, it allows you to bypass the character limit.

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Tahnk you for the tip!

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Thunder, Tri-disaster, Shadow Flare, Miasma II, Fester, Spur, Rouse, Aerial Blast and Enkindle?

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People actually use Tri-Disaster? I'll give you the rest though.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

People actually use Tri-Disaster? I'll give you the rest though.

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If you're doing AoE on 3 or more targets it will out-DPS Ruin, or you need to Bind a group of mobs, yeah.

It is a mana hog though, so you need to be confident in your ability to regain your mana. It does have some use in end-game content, namely BC Turn 4. Though not much.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

If you're doing AoE on 3 or more targets it will out-DPS Ruin, or you need to Bind a group of mobs, yeah.

It is a mana hog though, so you need to be confident in your ability to regain your mana. It does have some use in end-game content, namely BC Turn 4. Though not much.

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I have never used Tri-Disaster in T4. Costs too much mana for how long the encounter is, and how much AoE you need.

I use it to bind mobs, WP speed runs, and in AK runs where you double/triple pull packs.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

I have never used Tri-Disaster in T4. Costs too much mana for how long the encounter is, and how much AoE you need.

I use it to bind mobs, WP speed runs, and in AK runs where you double/triple pull packs.

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Well, I did say not much. :P

Mostly just in phase 1, because there is no better alternative once you Bane twice and have Miasma2/Shadow Flare up. I never have mana issues on T4, but I do always energy drain/Aetherflow after the second Bane in phase 1 to top me back off before phase 2. Keeps me from getting low towards the end of phase 3, which is generally what happens when I wait to burn the last Aetherflow charge on the first Bane in phase 2. I also might occasionally use it in phase 4 if we have to PUG some DPS that isn't up to snuff. I don't get many of them out though before I have to stop, because of the mana issues it could cause.

I mainly use it for philo grinds.

If they don't change how SMN's pets look then it will be so sad for Summoner players ;w; in FFXIV...

i meant fester not bane >.>

Pretty big SMN nerfs in the patch notes.

Thunder Can now only be used by thaumaturge and black mage.

Sustain Will now consume MP sintead of HP

Damage-over-time actions that target the ground such as Flaming Arrow and Shadow Flare will now break sleep and bind effects..

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Originally Posted by Nemhy

Losing thunder... no other buffs that really offset this. Welp there goes all my time itemizing wasted

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We won't even have 5 useful cross class abilities now.

Swiftcast, Raging Strikes, Surecast, Quelling Strikes..And, what? Hawk's Eye? Yes, we need DEX!


OH MY GOD

Allagan Boots of Casting
Before: INT+18, VIT+18, Critical Hit Rate+21, Accuracy+15
After: INT+18, VIT+18, Spell Speed+21, Determination+11

Allagan Boots of Casting
Before: INT+18, VIT+18, Critical Hit Rate+21, Accuracy+15
After: INT+18, VIT+18, Spell Speed+21, Determination+11

so we're losing accuracy now...when we're already forced to get 450 for our damn pet.

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Originally Posted by Nemhy

Allagan Boots of Casting
Before: INT+18, VIT+18, Critical Hit Rate+21, Accuracy+15
After: INT+18, VIT+18, Spell Speed+21, Determination+11

so we're losing accuracy now...when we're already forced to get 450 for our damn pet.

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Switch to mythology.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Switch to mythology.

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And lose our precious crit, in addition to losing Thunder?

In addition to Sustain now costing MP?


Why couldn't they change the BLM AF Boots? Allagan are available to BOTH of us.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

And lose our precious crit, in addition to losing Thunder?

In addition to Sustain now costing MP?


Why couldn't they change the BLM AF Boots? Allagan are available to BOTH of us.

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The crit's already gone. If we want acc, we have to make the best of a bad situation.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

And lose our precious crit, in addition to losing Thunder?

In addition to Sustain now costing MP?


Why couldn't they change the BLM AF Boots? Allagan are available to BOTH of us.

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Because Yoshi P needs to protect the job he plays. Now on top of losing more than 1/4 of our damage, losing accuracy on an item when our pet is already very high demanding accuracy and DOES NOT work with good. Ifrit and Titan still worthless in endgame. GG

well idk if I want to play anymore...

all jobs getting buff and ours gets this crap??

can t believe they are taking away thunder and replacing it with nothing.

I know this is little consolation since it's not going to be useful, but I think people are missing that Blizzard II is cross classed now (and nerfed).
It obviously not a good replacement, but they *did* take away one BLM damage ability and give another.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I know this is little consolation since it's not going to be useful, but I think people are missing that Blizzard II is cross classed now (and nerfed).
It obviously not a good replacement, but they *did* take away one BLM damage ability and give another.

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oh boy! Arcanist/summoner is good at Fates now! yipeeeeeeee -_-

Summoner got destroyed in this patch with removing thunder that was 10-15% of our damage and it got replaced with blizzard 2 which does nothing. I could forgive the poor design of the egi system but buffing every other class and nerfing the Summoner is going to make Summoner's weaker and less desirable.
Square you could've done anything for Summoner's like revamping the poorly designed Egi-System giving us Mini Primals or Espers since the current Egi-System has a major flaw that makes only Garuda viable once unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner got destroyed in this patch with removing thunder that was 10-15% of our damage and it got replaced with blizzard 2 which does nothing. I could forgive the poor design of the egi system but buffing every other class and nerfing the Summoner is going to make Summoner's weaker and less desirable.
Square you could've done anything for Summoner's like revamping the poorly designed Egi-System giving us Mini Primals or Espers since the current Egi-System has a major flaw that makes only Garuda viable once unlocked.

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I don't even give the slightest **** about how they look. I'm more miffed that titan and ifrit are still useless at endgame. Garuda's 450 acc cap WITHOUT food

My post from: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Thunder/page2

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Originally Posted by Kevee

I'm going to be fair and say we did need our numbers adjusted. We also have major game-breaking issues that need to be addressed, and weren't.

I will say they WENT AFTER IT THE WRONG WAY.

-Sustain costing MP. We already have MP problems.
-Change to Allagan Boots. Why would you change the piece TWO CLASSES have access to, instead of changing the AF2?
-Loss of Thunder. We now don't even have 5 useful cross-class skills. Now we can use Ruin more! How fun! This by itself is a ~10% loss in DPS, and a massive reduction in how active the class/job is.


Things that need to be fixed:
-Pets get no benefit from food.
-Pets get no benefit from passive party buffs based on job/class.
-Ifrit is useless.
-Titan is useless, except for soloing.
-Titan/Ifrit suffer from a skill bug where it has a 4s CD instead of 3s for their main attacks.
-PET RESPONSIVENESS
-Pets have a MUCH HIGHER accuracy cap than the player.

Anything else I forgot? I can't think at the moment. Ugh.

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I honestly did not see any BLM buff, all I saw is Bliz II being halved and our allagan boots being trashed :(. Freeze by design is pure garbage and the DMG increase does not make it part of any rotation, so it was useless and still useless. There is also the expected ninja nerf to BLM ticks, so we will see how it goes.

I also fully agree with kevee post. This is just the wrong way to nerf SMN.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

My post from: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Thunder/page2

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I hear you man :/ Will you still be maining SMN and hoping it isn't as bad as it looks or will you be changing it up?

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I honestly did not see any BLM buff, all I saw is Bliz II being halved and our allagan boots being trashed :(. Freeze by design is pure garbage and the DMG increase does not make it part of any rotation, so it was useless and still useless. There is also the expected ninja nerf to BLM ticks, so we will see how it goes.

I also fully agree with kevee post. This is just the wrong way to nerf SMN.

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Blizz II was used as part of some AoE rotations. As far as Freeze, it was never suppose to be used for DPS. It's main utility is being a ranged and targetable Bind (now with more DMG).

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I honestly did not see any BLM buff, all I saw is Bliz II being halved and our allagan boots being trashed :(. Freeze by design is pure garbage and the DMG increase does not make it part of any rotation, so it was useless and still useless. There is also the expected ninja nerf to BLM ticks, so we will see how it goes.

I also fully agree with kevee post. This is just the wrong way to nerf SMN.

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Your Allagan boots may be "trashed,*" but your AF2 has the same stats. We have no such option.

*It's arguable that the new Allagan boots would be better/BiS for BLM.