Need advice: static imploding because of cheater.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyxs

Even though its bait. Anyone who does this? YTA. You are a group. Leader or not you communicate with those working with you.

Also laughing about the person blocking everyone on the forum. Will be pretty lonely and dull if you only talk to echo chambers. Think him and the OP are friends? They seem to be on the same wavelength.

---

You mean like the guy he kicked who didn't communicate he was using tools that had the non-zero chance to risk the accounts, reputation and credibility of 7 other people for no reason other than his own selfish interests?

You mean like that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

You mean like the guy he kicked who didn't communicate he was using tools that had the non-zero chance to risk the accounts, reputation and credibility of 7 other people for no reason other than his own selfish interests?

You mean like that?

---

bruh they are a team of nobodies, they dont risk their accounts, even those who got world first didnt get anything done to them except to have to delete the weapons and the titles, as for reputation once again, they are nobodies, same for credibility.

Stop trying to make it sound like the person should be on death row for risking the "account's life" of a few other people.

A lot of people are using third party tools that you dont know of, and I can safely say that they are probably in your static or in your PF's, or even in roulettes if you do them, because people say they dont use them with source "trust me bro", doesnt mean they dont use them, unless they stream it to you on every log in to show you they arent using any, they could very well be using third party tools. And guess what ? It has no impact on you, absolutely none.

I see we're still pretending third-party tools are somehow capable of damaging the play experience of uninvolved parties. Interesting.

Quote:

---

Let me not improve and be happy with what I am doing ! If you want me to improve it's because you're bad !

---

Then explain this to me.

Quote:

---

The JP datacentres clear rate on savage and ex alone makes that statement a laughingstock, as the vast majority play on console.

---

By all means, go ahead and check. The results speak for themselves. They dont use ANY addons of any kind, yet the JP datacentres have improved and beaten harder content without the addons you say you cant play without.

They dont use third party tools at all..and yet they have a higher clear rate on harder content than NA by a huge margin.

If what you say is true..then explain how this can be? Ill go out on a limb and say they are better players, their success rate CERTAINLY says so.

In my opinion, you ( and perhaps others ) have played shall we say..other games...that foster a dependence...or an addiction to those third party addons , so are habitually dependent on them because you cant play any other way.

Look at the clear rates, Stormpeaks, no third party, no callouts, no marker assists..yet they have consistently and REPEATEDLY proven your statement to be utterly without merit.

About a year and a half ago, I was approached by a player on Tonberry, who was at that time running an ad hoc static for savage, she had seen my gameplay in a past dungeon and had been..well..pleased..with my playstyle. I mentioned that I wasnt the best by a huge margin ( well its true, always room to improve ) but declined as I had said, I dont do schedules anymore, so couldnt gaurantee to be there.

She was disappointed, but appreciated my honesty. Ive been invited I think..twice.....since I started in 2019. Believe me or not, up to you, I really dont care.

I was also offered a spot back on Zalera. I said no thanks, the ping was a killer.

Im sorry Stormpeaks, but the data on clear rates, the fact that a LARGE number of players on console have done all up to and including ultimate proves your statement on not being able to improve without reliance on third party tools invalid.

Your "you are bad" sneer does you, and DEFINITELY your argument, no credit whatsoever.

I dont use third party of any kind, what I have in terms of skill I can bring to the table unaided by crutches or addons. Maybe, and this is a suggestion, nothing more, you should try and play without them, like so many others do.

Theres the JP datacentres with no addons...and theres you who says they cant do what they have been doing for YEARS without them.

Something to think about, wouldnt you say?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Theres the JP datacentres with no addons...

---

I have no horse in this fight about third party stuff, but I'm sorry, this is a lie. I also play on the JP DC and I've had logs of my runs uploaded in the japanese language, are you going to say that weebs did it? Let's also not forget that UNNAMED was a fully JP team, trying to say that absolutely none of them use addons is disingenuous.

Quote:

---

I have no horse in this fight about third party stuff, but I'm sorry, this is a lie. I also play on the JP DC and I've had logs of my runs uploaded in the japanese language, are you going to say that weebs did it? Let's also not forget that UNNAMED was a fully JP team, trying to say that absolutely none of them use addons is disingenuous.

---

As I understand it ( and bear in mind this was after the Omega incident ) this is what I was told. Check me on this then whats the PC usage in Japan vs console? Percentages?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Something to think about, wouldnt you say?

---

It for sure does.

Of course, I also have to wonder if you have evidence they absolutely do not use any?

These add-ons can be hidden away, mind you, only very daft people stream with them overlaid over. Some people also tend to hide their chats, so they conveniently put overlays there as well.

Considering you play in Kujata, you likely know that JP is very strict when it comes to those fights, they do things almost procedurally. It's not as reliant on adaptative play like NA/EU tend to be. So that might also have an impact. After all, there's a greater emphasis on minmaxing and pushing yourself to perform better in the Western raiding scene. No one says it's mandatory. No one says they can't clear the fight without them. If anything, and I don't raid so º3º feel free to correct me and elaborate at any time, I remember that the Savage was so hard that they had to lower the HP of a boss to fit for some tanks having issues meeting required damage output? One thing is SE doing it by their own metrics, but people in the West were mentioning how some classes were lagging behind, information measured with these tools. So there is an application for these things, as it at least allows for personal improvement.

Sorry to say but... usually if you want people to respect what you post and actually slam it down on them, it's up to you to provide the evidence. Not "just google it yourself". Because people can just as easily find contradicting evidence, or even nothing due to Google's algorythm. Otherwise? Everything you say can and is questionable, because then the question becomes "where did you get the information"?
I checked FFXIV Census, and it yields... nothing, bc they don't have Ultimate clears as a metric.
I checked Lalachievements, and it yielded that only 0.2% of the population had cleared TOP and have the title. It does not discriminate per region.
I checked XIVCollect and it too yields the same as Lalachievements.
Lodestone apparently would have me check one by one, which I'm sure you didn't do, it'd be far too asinine for anyone to try.

So when you say "By all means, go ahead and check. The results speak for themselves.", I assume you yourself did the research to be so bold and thus would have zero problem sharing your sources? Because sorry, I might be tremendously stupid and I own that, culpa mea, but I can't find that information anywhere.

Same for how JP uses no addons at all. I assume you have such evidence?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolaina

Playing the game for you was more in reference to the literal bots underground gathering. So obviously something exists for that

---

Oh then yes full agree. I'm very against bots because they actively affect the game and aren't a question of "will Square punish us by changing something this time".

Their evidence will most likely be in Japan console is still king, since you cannot use addons on console which means JP does not use addons most the time. 100 bucks this is their proof.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

As I understand it ( and bear in mind this was after the Omega incident ) this is what I was told. Check me on this then whats the PC usage in Japan vs console? Percentages?

---

I wouldn't know about any percentages, but the evidence is there for you to see. You can travel to Mana and see some JP log runs, if you consider ACT an addon, then they very clearly do use addons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Their evidence will most likely be in Japan console is still king, since you cannot use addons on console which means JP does not use addons most the time. 100 bucks this is their proof.

---

That would at least be better than dropping fflogs like I half expect :p Because that's a website that holds logs, the very thing he seems to be against.

Still would require verifying if 1 out of 8 people in a JP only group is on a PC. All it takes is one person parsing and sharing the information with everyone and draw conclusions together.

The overall point of what I wrote though is that one can't just drop a statistic and say "look it up". It's far too easy to get away with that. After all, I did try to look it up, found no such case when I looked up people who had the Achievement "Heart to Heartless" done.

Plus I doubt hardcore content absolutely cannot be cleared without third party tools. But they do help in personal improvement throughout. Just as much as how I doubt people are saying "It cannot be done" in absolute terms either. Just that they likely help, and they do. But what do I know :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

That would at least be better than dropping fflogs like I half expect :p Because that's a website that holds logs, the very thing he seems to be against.

Still would require verifying if 1 out of 8 people in a JP only group is on a PC. All it takes is one person parsing and sharing the information with everyone and draw conclusions together.

The overall point of what I wrote though is that one can't just drop a statistic and say "look it up". It's far too easy to get away with that. After all, I did try to look it up, found no such case when I looked up people who had the Achievement "Heart to Heartless" done.

Plus I doubt hardcore content absolutely cannot be cleared without third party tools. But they do help in personal improvement throughout. Just as much as how I doubt people are saying "It cannot be done" in absolute terms either. Just that they likely help, and they do. But what do I know :rolleyes:

---

Oh I agree, sadly that person has such a hate boner for addons that I doubt anything will sway them.

Aight, time to reiterate something that's beaten to death at this point:

1.) Third-party tool usage is pretty common in the JP data centers as well.
2.) Console players do have access to a selection of third party-tools, albeit not as many as PC players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

snip

---

I think a key component here is for JP players, if what you say is actually true (it may or may not be idk how to look into it), what percentage of those players plays to just clear vs playing to clear and play as well as possible. Because you can clear most fights with a lot of party members gray parsing (doing poor damage), and I'm really curious how, if JP players are playing to optimize, how they are going about doing that because the game itself does a pisspoor job of telling you how to play your job, much less learn an optimized rotation (staring hard at BLM here...).

Another key in this topic is basically, do the JP players consider ACT and FFLogs cheating or not. Not any other combat mod, specifically ACT for the purposes of analyzing damage numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

I wouldn't know about any percentages, but the evidence is there for you to see. You can travel to Mana and see some JP log runs, if you consider ACT an addon, then they very clearly do use addons.

---

I mean ACT is objectively an addon/mod/whatever and against TOS. The question is more is it cheating or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I mean ACT is objectively an addon/mod/whatever and against TOS. The question is more is it cheating or not.

---

Again, so is discord. Should the ToS be enacted when the PF finder has parties that require you to join their discord server? I can hear the complaints from the BA runners already if that's the case, lmao. Either way, it's a non issue since we can have this song and dance until the end of service but it's ultimately up to the devs and GMs to decide where the line is drawn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Again, so is discord. Should the ToS be enacted when the PF finder has parties that require you to join their discord server? I can hear the complaints from the BA runners already if that's the case, lmao. Either way, it's a non issue since we can have this song and dance until the end of service but it's ultimately up to the devs and GMs to decide where the line is drawn.

---

I agree with your sentiment, but I think realistically we all know Square's never going to punish for discord usage.

But yes, it's down to them to draw the line.

Where has the line been drawn? Don't ask don't tell.
You know who has no say in drawing the line? The witch hunters who act like they are Square's personal police.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

IYou know who has no say in drawing the line? The witch hunters who act like they are Square's personal police.

---

You mean the ones that Yoshida specifically said "Don't do this" and "We're not going to persecute every single case, thus don't bother us about it".

Square's Unpaid Volunteer Policeforce working overtime for no reason is honestly cringe...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

You mean the ones that Yoshida specifically said "Don't do this" and "We're not going to persecute every single case, thus don't bother us about it".

Square's Unpaid Volunteer Policeforce working overtime for no reason is honestly cringe...

---

Come on, people defend SE and swat away complaints while paying for the honor to do so. It's not that surprising there are people going "Teacher, teacher, that person has chat bubbles on their screenshot!" lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Come on, people defend SE and swat away complaints while paying for the honor to do so. It's not that surprising there are people going "Teacher, teacher, that person has chat bubbles on their screenshot!" lol

---

Chat bubbles are cheating too ! Imagine the insane advantage over "normal" players, oh my, better ban them all!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

You know who has no say in drawing the line? The witch hunters who act like they are Square's personal police.

---

100%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Come on, people defend SE and swat away complaints while paying for the honor to do so. It's not that surprising there are people going "Teacher, teacher, that person has chat bubbles on their screenshot!" lol

---

This is sadly too true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Chat bubbles are cheating too ! Imagine the insane advantage over "normal" players, oh my, better ban them all!

---

I'll have you know that chat bubbles give the immense in-game advantage of uh... cheating in an unspecified way!

Legally, you do a right thing according to ToS


Morally, you do a right thing trying to uphold morality against grey area.


Personally, I hope the person you kicked get a more tolerating static.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

Legally, you do a right thing according to ToS


Morally, you do a right thing trying to uphold morality against grey area.


Personally, I hope the person you kicked get a more tolerating static.

---

Found a cheater, lmao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I'll have you know that chat bubbles give the immense in-game advantage of uh... cheating in an unspecified way!

---

Clearly people are going to use chat bubbles to announce mechanics without people having to look at the chat box

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Clearly people are going to use chat bubbles to announce mechanics without people having to look at the chat box

---

The code has been cracked, purge all the records!

Should you have spoken to him 1st? I don't see why not.

Should you have discussed it with your static 1st, absolutely Yes. You don't represent the entire static.

There are chances of finding other/ better statics. Just take it as a lesson experienced.

Quote:

---

So when you say "By all means, go ahead and check. The results speak for themselves.", I assume you yourself did the research to be so bold and thus would have zero problem sharing your sources? Because sorry, I might be tremendously stupid and I own that, culpa mea, but I can't find that information anywhere.

---

On the JP clear rates? Sure. Took me all of ten seconds

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/436066

Quote:

---

Why are the savage clear rates in the JP Datacenter so much higher than NA?

---

https://i.imgur.com/UK3QAhE.png

and heres 2022

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tails_are_out/

Quote:

---

- In terms of Pandaemonium raid Normal and Savage participation (measured by what % have the minion for Normal's 4th circle, and Mount for Savage), almost all of the worlds with the highest participation are on the Japanese servers (Mana worlds have the highest %, then Gaia then Elemental), Gilgamesh is the highest non-JP world. The percentage of people who have both the Normal Minion and Savage Mount ranges from 46% in Asura (Mana) to 4% in Mateus (Crystal).

---

and here

https://www.fanbyte.com/games/news/f...walker-launch/

Quote:

---

As for Savage content, Japan still outpaces the rest of us when it comes to the most players with a clear. The census uses active player data from characters with the normal Pandaemonium raid minion and Savage difficulty mount. Asura and Chocobo sport some of the highest clear rates among active players, with Demi-Phoinix mount ownership hovering around 22-23% on those servers.

---

Regardless of how this or any thread evolves, this is getting to be a circular argument, hence pointless.

*sigh*

In any case, Ive made my point, agree or disagree.....up to you.

Im out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

On the JP clear rates? Sure. Took me all of ten seconds

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/436066



https://i.imgur.com/UK3QAhE.png

and heres 2022

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tails_are_out/



and here

https://www.fanbyte.com/games/news/f...walker-launch/



Regardless of how this or any thread evolves, this is getting to be a circular argument, hence pointless.

*sigh*

In any case, Ive made my point, agree or disagree.....up to you.

Im out.

---

Okay so they have higher clears, what is your point? What does this prove regarding addons?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

Okay so they have higher clears, what is your point? What does this prove regarding addons?

---

JP really dislike that kind of stuff while people in EU/NA memed with UAVOnline it was something else for the JP community.
So them having high clear and their take toward third party we can assume third party are indeed not requiered at all.
But that also doesn't account for people playing in JP servers but not being from JP who won't be as reticent to use third party.

I really don't understand why people have this image that the JP playerbase is this hivemind that all despise and would never use addons. They're people just like everyone else. They often do log runs and speedruns too, those require ACT, which is an addon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aravell

I really don't understand why people have this image that the JP playerbase is this hivemind that all despise and would never use addons. They're people just like everyone else. They often do log runs and speedruns too, those require ACT, which is an addon.

---

Nobody got doxxed for it in JP. Haruglory didn't lose a member from their TOP party because one of them played with unnamed back Pandemonium Savage and was pressured to delete his character. Arthars lied when he said he had a meeting with his JP static to make sure nobody is using bad third party program.

When we are talking about JP disliking third party program we're talking about stuff like Splatoon/callout/cactbot not "I live in tawain I need to use a vpn to have good ping" or ACT to know where the dps is lacking in a fight with dps check.

They do, if anything korea/jpn players do it more than the rest of us. Lived there for many years, their culture on how they handel groups is different. I would assume thats why they have more clears, they don't burn each other and are more often than not, overly polite.

People who think they don't use add one are lieing to themselves.

Its very very toxic in the high end raiding in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sesera

JP really dislike that kind of stuff while people in EU/NA memed with UAVOnline it was something else for the JP community.
So them having high clear and their take toward third party we can assume third party are indeed not requiered at all.
But that also doesn't account for people playing in JP servers but not being from JP who won't be as reticent to use third party.

---

I played on JP servers in the past, and the use of ACT is pretty common, so I fail to see the point. Is the point that addons are not required to clear content? I do not think anyone is arguing against that point. Of course you can clear content without addons.

I might just be dumb, but I fail to see what exactly is this slam dunk point they were trying to make. Cause yeah JP servers do still log runs, which requires ACT which is an addon.

Some would even argue that JP servers are far more toxic with blacklists and stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobby66

I played on JP servers in the past, and the use of ACT is pretty common, so I fail to see the point. Is the point that addons are not required to clear content? I do not think anyone is arguing against that point. Of course you can clear content without addons.

I might just be dumb, but I fail to see what exactly is this slam dunk point they were trying to make. Cause yeah JP servers do still log runs, which requires ACT which is an addon.

Some would even argue that JP servers are far more toxic with blacklists and stuff.

---

Only "cheating" third party like splatoon is a big no no like nobody is going to freak out because someone used reshade or ACT. Especially when ACT is pretty much mandatory to have if you do high end content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sesera

Nobody got doxxed for it in JP. Haruglory didn't lose a member from their TOP party because one of them played with unnamed back Pandemonium Savage and was pressured to delete his character. Arthars lied when he said he had a meeting with his JP static to make sure nobody is using bad third party program.

When we are talking about JP disliking third party program we're talking about stuff like Splatoon/callout/cactbot not "I live in tawain I need to use a vpn to have good ping" or ACT to know where the dps is lacking in a fight with dps check.

---

I would bet stuff like splatoon/cactbot are as widespread there as they are here, most people keep it to themselves/ don't care. It only becomes an issue when used in a world-first race then the weird witch hunty types get mad and harass people and bitch about it on the forums for months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

did UNNAMED_'s DRG get kicked, reported, harassed, doxxed, forced to delete his weapon, forced to delete his character because it was all stipulated in the rules of their static?

---

Thats a silly set of rules for a static and nobody would want to join such a static. The strict statics are usually the ones that stream their progress so its understandable they are rather strict on 3rd party tools than risking a ban. Not everyone is a crazy doxxer.

By stating you dont want 3rd party tools from the start, other members are less likely to blame you if it does happen that someone is getting kicked. If you didnt tell from the start, then of course some people might get annoyed especially when the progress are going well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lieri

Thats a silly set of rules for a static and nobody would want to join such a static. The strict statics are usually the ones that stream their progress so its understandable they are rather strict on 3rd party tools than risking a ban. Not everyone is a crazy doxxer.

By stating you dont want 3rd party tools from the start, other members are less likely to blame you if it does happen that someone is getting kicked. If you didnt tell from the start, then of course some people might get annoyed especially when the progress are going well.

---

ok so it didn't need to be written into the rules for it to happen

sounds like I don't have to write anything in the rules either

if UNNAMED_'s dragoon is expected to accept all that happened to him as part of "fuck around and find out" then the cheater in my static should also accept the kick as fuck around and find out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

ok so it didn't need to be written into the rules for it to happen

sounds like I don't have to write anything in the rules either

if UNNAMED_'s dragoon is expected to accept all that happened to him as part of "fuck around and find out" then the cheater in my static should also accept the kick as fuck around and find out

---

and you should also accept that people left your static, you fucked around and found out

Need advice: How to make myself look like I'm asking for advice when really I just want to be told I did everything right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazhar

That's the thing, a lot of people involved in raiding don't think convenience tools such as ACT or minor UI enhancements are cheating. It doesn't give you any information you're not supposed to have, it just presents them nicely.
Could you reach high level of play without ACT? Personally I believe so, as long as you still make the efforts to improve and seek feedback. I even think ACT isn't really needed as much if you already know your stuff.
Is it easier with ACT? Definitely.
Is it cheating to use ACT? My opinion is still no, because I don't think learning to play your job by looking through the chat log or using jank systems such as Stone Sky Sea is part of the intented challenge of the game. Intended difficulty is the key word, and this is why some add-ons see more tolerance than others, especially mods which remove some unintended inconvenience.
Yes, the devs intended the fights to be clearable without third party tools. But did they want us to never look at job guides and try to ignore the existence of fflogs despite it being a huge part of the raiding community since Heavensward, being an influence in every single job guide, rotation and even their own balancing? Did they intend every fight to be cleared with high ping, disabilities and without voice chat?

---

They don't need to give people more tools to make harassment more convenient. I raid and the gray area is fine. Same with PvP chat. If you doubt that, look no further than the tryhards here that think if a dungeon run takes a minute longer it constitutes harassment. All it does it push the envelope under the guise of QoL. Sadly, a lot of people just can't handle a calculator.