So you're telling me..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

What's sad, is that Ninja was beating Samurai in rDPS back in StB. So was Dragoon, when at max level. I wonder if Ransu was saying the same thing then as he is now? Probably not. Reaper gets hate because it's new, and they hate us cause they want to be us.

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Absolutely no hate, as the expansion and thus the balance was rushed for myriad reasons, but there is a certain sense of disappointment when the best dancer log on P1S does less rDPS than the median reaper log.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

And yet, it’s a significant more raiding experience than your zero experience. You’ve played since heavensward? Cleared zero raid tiers and you come into threads like these harping on about balance. Please…

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Anyone can pay to get carried through raids so they can pretend they know things about jobs they don't even play, as every one of your posts in this thread can attest to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

Anyone can pay to get carried through raids so they can pretend they know things about jobs they don't even play, as every one of your posts in this thread can attest to.

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Funny thing is, my logs say otherwise. My logs stem back to when fflogs began recording and there’s even videos of me clearing coils. There is no pretending from my behalf, however you are 100% clueless with zero raiding experience. And yet here you are trying to besmirch my name and experiences by insinuating I bought the clears for the last 12 raid tiers? I do not think so

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

Funny thing is, my logs say otherwise. My logs stem back to when fflogs began recording and there’s even videos of me clearing coils. There is no pretending from my behalf, however you are 100% clueless with zero raiding experience. And yet here you are trying to besmirch my name and experiences by insinuating I bought the clears for the last 12 raid tiers? I do not think so

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And yet with all that "experience", you don't seem to know how to play Ninja or Samurai.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

okay, i know this concept is hard (like, i don't understand WHY it is hard but as often as it gets mentioned obviously it IS hard). that statement is wrong. Reaper is NOT beating SAM while also having a dps buff, it is beating reaper because it has a dps buff, theres a very big difference here.

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You’re about the only person making sense in this thread for about 45 pages.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

And yet with all that "experience", you don't seem to know how to play Ninja or Samurai.

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https://www.fflogs.com/reports/3XfjA...pe=damage-done

Do I not? Here’s me practicing ninja when I decided to pick it up and play melee. Because I decided I wanted to change roles in 6.0 so proceeded to learn ninja and practiced. Looks like I know what I’m doing. Let’s see your wealth of experience and knowledge raiding endgame on ninja or samurai.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/3XfjA...pe=damage-done

Do I not? Here’s me practicing ninja when I decided to pick it up and play melee. Because I decided I wanted to change roles in 6.0 so proceeded to learn ninja and practiced. Looks like I know what I’m doing. Let’s see your wealth of experience and knowledge raiding endgame on ninja or samurai.

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Fantastic green parse on Cloud Deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

Fantastic green parse on Cloud Deck.

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That the best you’ve got? Pick a random colour, talk crap, make up lies then post on threads you’re genuinely clueless about. Well. I won’t reply to yourself anymore. At least others in this thread, though I don’t agree with their opinion so have one coming from knowledge and experience

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

That the best you’ve got? Pick a random colour, talk crap, make up lies then post on threads you’re genuinely clueless about. Well. I won’t reply to yourself anymore. At least others in this thread, though I don’t agree with their opinion so have one coming from knowledge and experience

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I'm sorry you feel like I should look up to your logs that place you in the bottom half of all raiding Ninjas?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

I'm sorry you feel like I should look up to your logs that place you in the bottom half of all raiding Ninjas?

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This only shows you don't know how to read/use fflogs and yet you come on here yelling/screaming and crying about balance cos your precious samurai isn't top DPS anymore LOL. You're a joke.

Uuum, yeah if you've got a green parse I dunno why that is being thrown around as some kind of argument rofl.
In general tho I think throwing it around is a tad silly, recently I had someone trying to argue with me about NIN because they have triple legend ( not on NIN ) but didn't even know that throwing daggers don't break Raiju.
But I was being talked down to as if my opinion was inherently wrong because I disagreed with a triple legend.

But I mean throwing around a '' green practice parse '' is kinda silly to me.
In the end of the day people should take what others say on its own.
If there is a wide consensus amongst top players that's one thing, but just like irl with more real issues just because one scientist has an opinion doesn't mean that they're right.
There's a ton of insane scientists that have insane ideas that are completely off the rails, it's a consensus amongst scientists that matters not a single persons view or credentials.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Uuum, yeah if you've got a green parse I dunno why that is being thrown around as some kind of argument rofl.

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it could have to do with the fact that the "nice green parse" was 47% nowadays, wheres it was a 95% parse back when it was recorded. theres a pretty hefty difference between checking the historic logs or the numbers in the fight logs.

one compares you to the best parse of everyone at the time you made your parse, the other compares you to everyone that did it in the last 2 weeks, every single parse at that, meaning if you did a single 99% parse half a year back than your log history will say 99%, your "homepage" will say 99%, but if you look into the actual log it will tell you you suck because nowadays people that are 40 itemlevel higher and that have gone through 3 or more patches of mostly buffs out dps you. that isn't even mentioning that (because it compares to all parses someone uploads, not just best parses) if no one but a single person ran a fight 9 times beating your single parse you're looking at every single time you would now show a 10% parse, even if you where a consistent gold player normally.

for the record, i have alexander logs that show up as grey when i look into the fight now, back when i made them those were 90+

tl:dr:waykin actually pretty consistently parsed 80+ on the fight peaking at 95, IruruCece indeed does NOT know how to read logs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

it could have to do with the fact that the "nice green parse" was 47% nowadays, wheres it was a 95% parse back when it was recorded. theres a pretty hefty difference between checking the historic logs or the numbers in the fight logs.

one compares you to the best parse of everyone at the time you made your parse, the other compares you to everyone that did it in the last 2 weeks, every single parse at that, meaning if you did a single 99% parse half a year back than your log history will say 99%, your "homepage" will say 99%, but if you look into the actual log it will tell you you suck because nowadays people that are 40 itemlevel higher and that have gone through 3 or more patches of mostly buffs out dps you. that isn't even mentioning that (because it compares to all parses someone uploads, not just best parses) if no one but a single person ran a fight 9 times beating your single parse you're looking at every single time you would now show a 10% parse, even if you where a consistent gold player normally.

for the record, i have alexander logs that show up as grey when i look into the fight now, back when i made them those were 90+

tl:dr:waykin actually pretty consistently parsed 80+ on the fight peaking at 95, IruruCece indeed does NOT know how to read logs.

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It didn't even load to me I just get a blank page, but yeah I think regardless I don't put much value in individuals throwing credentials around.
I think it can be a little bit relevant sometimes but never an '' I win and I am right '' trumph card.

I want to avoid getting political etc here but it's how you end up with so many conspiracy '' theorists '' and people believing misinformation, because there's always going to be exceptions and/ or experts/ scientists ( often times they're not even experts or scientists in the relevant field ) that are just wrong or want to cash in on being a contrarian because there's always a market for that.
It's the same in FFXIV, amongst top players you'll still find people with wacky ideas or who are misinformed.
What one should look for is a consensus and common trends.

Edit: It actually loads now I am not sure why it didn't before <_<.
Before it was just blank maybe overloaded site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

It didn't even load to me I just get a blank page, but yeah I think regardless I don't put much value in individuals throwing credentials around.
I think it can be a little bit relevant sometimes but never an '' I win and I am right '' trumph card.

I want to avoid getting political etc here but it's how you end up with so many conspiracy '' theorists '' and people believing misinformation, because there's always going to be exceptions and/ or experts/ scientists ( often times they're not even experts or scientists in the relevant field ) that are just wrong or want to cash in on being a contrarian because there's always a market for that.
It's the same in FFXIV, amongst top players you'll still find people with wacky ideas or who are misinformed.
What one should look for is a consensus and common trends.

Edit: It actually loads now I am not sure why it didn't before <_<.
Before it was just blank maybe overloaded site.

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oh i'm not (completly) disagreeing with your original argument, you are very much correct that there is more than parses, but as part of a package they can add credentials so i thought it important to point out why dismissing the argument of "hey, at least i do have experience" with "oh yea, your parses suck" is a bad argument if you don't even read it correctly. especially as "not reading it correctly" does indeed show a lack of experience with the site in question which is bad if the dismissing person themselves uses the data on said site to prove arguments

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

it could have to do with the fact that the "nice green parse" was 47% nowadays, wheres it was a 95% parse back when it was recorded. theres a pretty hefty difference between checking the historic logs or the numbers in the fight logs.

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Are you sure it works like that?
I thought the actual parse percentile was saved forever as that same percentile you got it when it was uploaded and recorded, the only thing that updated was the median.
At least for warcraftlogs I can go back and see all my 100th and 99ths from 4 wow expansions ago (when warcraftlogs released mid mop expansion) even if someone beat it I still got the 100 recorded historically unchanged for all to see.
I can also go back and check ultimates done in shb and they are still the same percentile.
Now maybe fflogs is different but I doubt the creator would be changing shit around for no reason between the almost identical pages.
So unless I did miss something about fflogs that is a real green back then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Are you sure it works like that?
I thought the actual parse percentile was saved forever as that same percentile you got it when it was uploaded and recorded, the only thing that updated was the median.
At least for warcraftlogs I can go back and see all my 100th and 99ths from 4 wow expansions ago (when warcraftlogs released mid mop expansion) even if someone beat it I still got the 100 recorded historically unchanged for all to see.
I can also go back and check ultimates done in shb and they are still the same percentile.
Now maybe fflogs is different but I doubt the creator would be changing shit around for no reason between the almost identical pages.
So unless I did miss something about fflogs that is a real green back then.

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Off to the left it has historical, which I think is what it was on the day of, and way over to the right it has “today’s.” They do shift. Some of yours did from just looking you up. I think that is what he is referring to.

If you click on "Rankings" it shows that the historical parse was, indeed, orange.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

If you click on "Rankings" it shows that the historical parse was, indeed, orange.

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What’s the historical and the today’s indicate on the main one then?

"The main one" being the page that was linked, correct?

The number beneath "Parse %" is a...bit of an oddity, especially in this case. I don't often trust it for that reason. This instance especially, that number actually neither matches up with their actual ranking nor their "Today's %" ranking. If you go to their main profile page, click on Stormblood, go to Trials 3, and click on Diamond Weapon, you can actually see this very parse (the only Ninja 95 on the Diamond Weapon page. Not knocking 95, just pointing it out for identification purposes), and its "Today's %" is 95.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

"The main one" being the page that was linked, correct?

The number beneath "Parse %" is a...bit of an oddity, especially in this case. I don't often trust it for that reason. This instance especially, that number actually neither matches up with their actual ranking nor their "Today's %" ranking. If you go to their main profile page, click on Stormblood, go to Trials 3, and click on Diamond Weapon, you can actually see this very parse (the only Ninja 95 on the Diamond Weapon page. Not knocking 95, just pointing it out for identification purposes), and its "Today's %" is 95.

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Yeah, I found what you were talking about. That’s nifty. I’m going to start using that more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Are you sure it works like that?
I thought the actual parse percentile was saved forever as that same percentile you got it when it was uploaded and recorded, the only thing that updated was the median.
At least for warcraftlogs I can go back and see all my 100th and 99ths from 4 wow expansions ago (when warcraftlogs released mid mop expansion) even if someone beat it I still got the 100 recorded historically unchanged for all to see.
I can also go back and check ultimates done in shb and they are still the same percentile.
Now maybe fflogs is different but I doubt the creator would be changing shit around for no reason between the almost identical pages.
So unless I did miss something about fflogs that is a real green back then.

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just look up the character yourself and check diamond weapon logs, you'll than see that she has several logs ranked 80+. just look at the 95% and click on it and you will see that it's the same one originally linked, just that in the historical ranking shown it will say 95% whereas when you open the logs it will show 47%? green anyways.

so yea, i am sure about that. and yes, the website is not to clear on how it works so a lot of people don't really know, but again yes i am sure and you can check for yourself that this was indeed a 95% back when it was recorded by looking up the character and just checking diamond weapon logs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

just look up the character yourself and check diamond weapon logs, you'll than see that she has several logs ranked 80+. just look at the 95% and click on it and you will see that it's the same one originally linked, just that in the historical ranking shown it will say 95% whereas when you open the logs it will show 47%? green anyways. so yea, i am sure about that. and yes, the website is not to clear on how it works so a lot of people don't really know, but again yes i am sure and you can check for yourself that this was indeed a 95% back when it was recorded by looking up the character and just checking diamond weapon logs.

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TIL, the option to view historical rankings just wasn't immediately obvious. I will take the L, Wyakin can indeed play NIN.

I really hate the title of this thread. Just state your point next time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

I think the argument is sound, 40 pages seem to represent I'm not the only one that thinks it's unfair and I may be salty but at least I'm not liar and an obfuscator .

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This you?
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5780917

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Haas

This you?
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5780917

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oh hey you're other guy that trolled about AC was not broken for over 20 pages before it took a 50% nerf and then made a 3 full posts explaining how reaper is the hardest job in history

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

oh hey you're other guy that trolled about AC was not broken for over 20 pages before it took a 50% nerf and then made a 3 full posts explaining how reaper is the hardest job in history

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Page 8
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5780848

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Haas

But if you compare RPR with other DPS, notably DNC, it certainly does look like Crest is overtuned. I suspect either DNC will get a buff or RPR will see a slight nerf, probably 100 -> 50 potency if I had to guess.

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Uno reverse card

Page 19
This You? Again?
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5786144

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Weren't you the one that thought AC was a single 100 potency heal and didn't know how damage/heal over time spells worked and said it "MNK's mantra is equal if not absolutely better than Arcane Crest" back in page 11 while defending AC as perfectly balanced utility?
he clearly made a typo and a 10 second search reveals he plays reaper

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I literally called the nerf and it came true, yet I'm completely biased.

At least I have the integrity to admit when I'm wrong and apologize with humility. You can't even admit you lied and obscured what I actually said about tuning. A simple my bad is all you needed to say and we could have had a civil discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Haas

Page 8
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5780848


Uno reverse card

Page 19
This You? Again?
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5786144


I literally called the nerf and it came true, yet I'm completely biased.

At least I have the integrity to admit when I'm wrong and apologize with humility. You can't even admit you lied and obscured what I actually said about tuning. A simple my bad is all you needed to say and we could have had a civil discussion.

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Oh yeah thanks for reminding me of that you actually didn't know how healing over time even worked
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...05#post5783205

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Haas

Actually, looking further into it, MNK's mantra is equal if not absolutely better than Arcane Crest. It's a 10% increased healing to self and nearby members for 15 seconds. It doesn't heal directly, but the increase of healing received is certainly more than 100 potency. Yet, I don't see anyone raging over this and asking for extreme nerfs... Why not? Because Mantra healing numbers do not show up in fflogs like crest does. MNKs don't get credit for the increased healing on fflogs, you would have to look at the individual players and see when Mantra was applied and how much healing was increased then.

So I chalk this up to people not knowing what they are talking about, but still asking for extreme nerfs because they have some notion of what balance is.

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You unironically and with a straight face said mantra was better than prenerf (50% nerf btw (not extreme btw)) AC in an attempt to defend it after you "admitted" it might need "adjustments" (but not an extreme nerf btw) like a snake in the grass you wanted to say it was busted but then came back to defend it vs mantra.
lol
lmao even

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Oh yeah thanks for reminding me of that you actually didn't know how healing over time even worked
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...05#post5783205


You unironically and with a straight face said mantra was better than prenerf (50% nerf btw (not extreme btw)) AC in an attempt to defend it after you "admitted" it might need "adjustments" (but not an extreme nerf btw) like a snake in the grass.
lol
lmao even

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Yes, I made a mistake, but neither was I being completely biased and saying AC shouldn't be nerfed. It's very clear to everyone that you are gas lighting.

You literally put words in my mouth that I don't say.

I don't even understand why they made AC heal to begin with, to me at least it makes little sense thematically I think it'd make more sense for MNK.
They removed the damage ability from SAM when you used Third Eye which was kinda meh imo, it felt great to trigger and use it even if it was little damage.
But at least the heal was a self-heal.

RPR of all DPS having an AoE heal especially one that powerful is just bizarre to me.

I was doing the Anima dungeon for the first time, and the healer died right at about half health for the last boss. Guess what we didn't do? Wipe. Reaper healed the party for the entire second half of the bosses health. That's ridiculous. Dudes doing more dmg than my BLM, spamming party heals, and dancing around with no mobility problems what-so-ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by godvivec

I was doing the Anima dungeon for the first time, and the healer died right at about half health for the last boss. Guess what we didn't do? Wipe. Reaper healed the party for the entire second half of the bosses health. That's ridiculous. Dudes doing more dmg than my BLM, spamming party heals, and dancing around with no mobility problems what-so-ever.

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It's the best

Quote:

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Originally Posted by godvivec

I was doing the Anima dungeon for the first time, and the healer died right at about half health for the last boss. Guess what we didn't do? Wipe. Reaper healed the party for the entire second half of the bosses health. That's ridiculous. Dudes doing more dmg than my BLM, spamming party heals, and dancing around with no mobility problems what-so-ever.

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How much does the heal need to be nerfed until people stop complaining about their dps? If one heal with a 30 second cooldown is enough to heal the party, I think that's a sign that there isn't enough damage being done to both the party and the tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

It's the best

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So you agree it should get nerfed?

Wow I am proud of you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

How much does the heal need to be nerfed until people stop complaining about their dps? If one heal with a 30 second cooldown is enough to heal the party, I think that's a sign that there isn't enough damage being done to both the party and the tank.

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Tell it like it is brother!

Reaper will not suffer nerfs, not in the way of it's DPS anyway.

Instead, other classes may be buffed to lessen the gap.

Of these classes, BLM and SAM will receive buffs in 6.08

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

So you agree it should get nerfed?

Wow I am proud of you.

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It has been nerfed. You saying you want it nerfed even more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazimere

It has been nerfed. You saying you want it nerfed even more?

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Yes I want its damage to get nerfed.

It seems instead they will buff others damage which is in effect the same thing.
It's only not on an emotional level because people tend to flip out about nerfs while praising buffs even tho they can have the identical effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Yes I want its damage to get nerfed.

It seems instead they will buff others damage which is in effect the same thing.
It's only not on an emotional level because people tend to flip out about nerfs while praising buffs even tho they can have the identical effect.

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The end result is the same but the effect is not.

Blindly nerfing Jobs that seem too good and buffing Jobs that seem bad is just going to make a bigger mess of balance.

Reaper's damage gets nerfed, then what? Monk takes it's place, as they have similar damage output and raid buffs. Then what? Everyone complains Monk is too good and needs to be nerfed into the ground?

On the other hand bringing other Jobs up to Reaper means that they set a benchmark for the other Jobs, that their is plan for balance as a whole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiaoki

The end result is the same but the effect is not.

Blindly nerfing Jobs that seem too good and buffing Jobs that seem bad is just going to make a bigger mess of balance.

Reaper's damage gets nerfed, then what? Monk takes it's place, as they have similar damage output and raid buffs. Then what? Everyone complains Monk is too good and needs to be nerfed into the ground?

On the other hand bringing other Jobs up to Reaper means that they set a benchmark for the other Jobs, that their is plan for balance as a whole.

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If they buff MNK's damage it's the same situation regardless.
I think MNK's damage is perhaps a bit too strong too atm, SAM and BLM should be the top dogs.

My point was that you could accomplish the same balance tier by nerfing RPR or buffing SAM and BLM.
Is RPR too strong or are others too weak?
That's more of a pov and opinion on how high the damage should actually be overall.

The FFXIV devs tend to go the safer route by buffing instead of nerfing because it upsets people less, even if the balance tiering ends up being the same in practice people don't like seeing their numbers go down.
I don't think that's necessarily always a good thing, in the past overbuffing has lead to numbers getting too crazy, it happened with physical ranged DPS in Heavensward.

No one here is talking about blindly nerfing or buffing, the data already exists we already have the facts on our plate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

If they buff MNK's damage it's the same situation regardless.
I think MNK's damage is perhaps a bit too strong too atm, SAM and BLM should be the top dogs.

My point was that you could accomplish the same balance tier by nerfing RPR or buffing SAM and BLM.
Is RPR too strong or are others too weak?
That's more of a pov and opinion on how high the damage should actually be overall.

The FFXIV devs tend to go the safer route by buffing instead of nerfing because it upsets people less, even if the balance tiering ends up being the same in practice people don't like seeing their numbers go down.
I don't think that's necessarily always a good thing, in the past overbuffing has lead to numbers getting too crazy, it happened with physical ranged DPS in Heavensward.

No one here is talking about blindly nerfing or buffing, the data already exists we already have the facts on our plate.

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In the first paragraph you day that Monk may need a nerf, then in the second paragraph you say only Reaper needs to be nerfed .... again.

Have you not seen that Monk and Reaper have pretty much the same rDPS?

Did you even read my post?

It seems more like you just want Reaper to be nerfed and don't care about actual balance.

Everything you say is suspect with ulterior motives.