Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

As a side note-

All of the people fully caught up on MSQ have zero access to the 2.0 xp benefits.

This means when they level up the new jobs, they cannot exploit MSQ to level faster and get those jobs to 50.

In the OP's dreams, a DoH/DoL bot could get the jobs on day one and have unlimited access to the 2.0 xp benefits.

This means when they level up the new jobs, they can skip working on DoW/DoM levels 11-30, they can exploit MSQ to level faster and get those jobs to 50 BEFORE veteran players, in the same alotted time.

So bots can access leves and dailies faster. Which means they can cap DoH/DoL faster. Which means they can control the market faster than even the most hardcore players.

Screwing with our economy. Massively.

And some say its a means to "let people play how they want without as many gates". hah.

I completed the entire 2.0-2.1 main story in 2 days with a lvl 50 character. Its not that hard. And I mean, from the level 5 quest to the level 50 quests.

(old 1.0 char, how it was level 50)

the quests themselves don't take very long to complete. With the xp boost they are giving to the MSQ's, it will probably go pretty quickly for newbies.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Lol, I bet none of her arguments included, "But! But! I don't want to run all my bots through the MSQ!"

But seriously, you should report her, deserves it for botting, and deserves it more for trying to get them to change the game so she can continue to. Let the door hit her on the butt on the way out.

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She has been reported by quite a few people. She talks about it on vent (in a ls I am in), but not in chat. Some of her like-minded friends are in the same boat and will probably all just party up.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Devs have already said they are adding a new feature to the 2.XX Duties, that'll allow you to enter them with less than required party size, and with no lvl/ilvl sync. So if you are stuck on say Westwind, just get a lvl60/ilvl170 sch to come and duo it with you.

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Don't underestimate the benefit of these simple changes. IDK how many people we ushered through finalizing ZM/CoP/TAU/WotG with just one or two high-end players carrying them through the content. This is a real game changer for the new players to get help with these things.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Don't underestimate the benefit of these simple changes. IDK how many people we ushered through finalizing ZM/CoP/TAU/WotG with just one or two high-end players carrying them through the content. This is a real game changer for the new players to get help with these things.

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You're assuming people will help.

I don't ask for help, most certainly not when they have things for *their* characters to do.

Friend I'm concerned for is *my* responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

My point, exactly.



I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make?

High level players queue up for the trials and MSQ dailies, and there will be a significant influx of new/returning players who will either need those clears, or will need the currency/exp from these roulettes. That's without mentioning help from FC members, friends, and party finder, all of which will make clearing dungeons and trials MUCH easier thanks to the removal of the level and party member restrictions on 2.x content.

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If there were folks doing it I wouldn't have spent an hour waiting on a second tank until I called a friend and bribed him to tank it.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

If there were folks doing it I wouldn't have spent an hour waiting on a second tank until I called a friend and bribed him to tank it.

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See, there's your issue.
No progression instances NEED a 2nd tank. Its just easier if one goes down the other can take over.

bloody stupid idea its meant to be part of the story dont like it theres plenty of other mmos lol

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

You're assuming people will help.

I don't ask for help, most certainly not when they have things for *their* characters to do.

Friend I'm concerned for is *my* responsibility.

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Guess you're one of those "glass is half empty" types or something. I just prefer to think there would be people out there that would be willing to help others out if they asked. I expect there will be some that want to flex their muscles just see what they can faceroll as well. Yes, a few lower level players may get abused a bit in the process while the heroes see if they can stomp through a dungeon low-manning it--but if they figure out a way to do it and they allow a new player to tag along, they are in fact doing something fun for themselves as well as helping those new players out are they not?

Peeps in my XI LS did just these kinds of things on a regular basis when SE lifted the restrictions there. I expect we have a few in my FC that will do the same as well. To each his own.

Just depends on your view in life I guess... some choose to look on the brighter side of life sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Raist

Just depends on your view in life I guess... some choose to look on the brighter side of life sometimes.

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http://www.blackframefame.com/wp-con...013/05/920.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hieral

But seriously, it takes less than a week for a new player to get through the 2.0 main scenario, grind some tomes (900 in a week now), gear up, and tackle the rest.

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That's if they skip all cutscenes, play as a tank and are already level 50. When I first started (as an ACN), it took me around a month to finish 2.0. I couldn't do FATE parties because I was on the PS3 and dungeon queue times were pretty... maybe a little worse than they are now.

Imo the story is very good when it is progressing. But there are a ton of filler quests which could be removed in order to just give new players the ACTUAL story quests.
This would make the story a lot more interesting and shorter as well for that matter.

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Originally Posted by zx10r

I am sure this expansion will bring many new subscriptions.

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Indeed this expansion most likely will! :P

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Originally Posted by Nestama

That's if they skip all cutscenes, play as a tank and are already level 50. When I first started (as an ACN), it took me around a month to finish 2.0. I couldn't do FATE parties because I was on the PS3 and dungeon queue times were pretty... maybe a little worse than they are now.

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Just to add to this, as a brand new player playing a tank exclusively and staying focused on the story almost exclusively only stopping to my main scenario roulette and low level dungeon roulette for soldiery tomes to reach the necessary ilevel 90 to queue for everything, I completed all the main story in 21 days.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

If there were folks doing it I wouldn't have spent an hour waiting on a second tank until I called a friend and bribed him to tank it.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

See, there's your issue.
No progression instances NEED a 2nd tank. Its just easier if one goes down the other can take over.

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Again... this ties into Gralna's post I quoted earlier. With the change coming in 3.0... you wouldn't have to wait for that last player if you wanted to try low-manning it. What if your tank and healer were geared to the teeth and you could just steam roll the run without the restrictions.

Just another example of how much easier things may potentially be for the new players once HW drops.

No seriously. Why is this topic still going? It's the same words being spun around every time. :X

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Originally Posted by Rath

I am glad you have to level a battle class to 50. I know someone with 7 alts that have lvl 10 battle classes that she bots with. She is quite pissed with this. She has also posted in this topic lol. This puts her out of business for new gathering nodes until she catches up.

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Yes people on Coeurl should report her and her friends.
Hmm shes from Coeurl and has posted. Looked at the first 30 pages and the only one from Coeurl is the OP.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

If that is the case in regards to xiv then why did SE incorporate so many ways to hit max level in all the classes/jobs and be able to raid while easily by passing the msq?

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You cannot unlock any dungeons, primals, or Coils without doing MSQ. Not sure about the 3 CT raids though. It's been a while lol.

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Originally Posted by XgungraveX

people really need to stop this *new player* bit, there a trial for reason if they enjoy the game they will continue to play and sub if not they will move on

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Actually people don't. Traditionally MMO expansions attract new players and traditionally game companies want and need those new players. This expansion gates off content and unless they either trim the MSQ's down or every class starts at 30 new players face a huge grind. That's a shame as the more players we have in game the better for everyone.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

You cannot unlock any dungeons, primals, or Coils without doing MSQ. Not sure about the 3 CT raids though. It's been a while lol.

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Yup, actually most of the level 50+ content is locked behind the completion of The Ultima Weapon, the final 2.0 storyquest.

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Originally Posted by RubyShoes

Actually people don't. Traditionally MMO expansions attract new players and traditionally game companies want and need those new players. This expansion gates off content and unless they either trim the MSQ's down or every class starts at 30 new players face a huge grind. That's a shame as the more players we have in game the better for everyone.

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Devs have already said they are going to ease up the grind of 2.XX MSQ, plus as I mentioned earlier, the new no synce/reduced party size feature to duties so that friends/fc/etc can help you just burn through them.

From just reading this thread, loudest voices seem to be crying, "but the new players!", even though several new players have spoken up and said it's not that bad of a grind. Reading between the lines, seems the people most against the decision to gate Ishgard, are really saying, "I did the bare minimum of story to reach endgame, I don't want to have to finish rest of the story, plus do HW story to reach 3.XX endgame".

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Originally Posted by RubyShoes

Actually people don't. Traditionally MMO expansions attract new players and traditionally game companies want and need those new players. This expansion gates off content and unless they either trim the MSQ's down or every class starts at 30 new players face a huge grind. That's a shame as the more players we have in game the better for everyone.

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Even if new players were to enter the game for an expansion, they still need to play the previous installment to catch up to the expansion. This has been the case for pretty much any online MMO that has expansion installments.

The Leveling process is still part of MSQ too, nor do the installments from 2.1 and onward take that long (the biggest offenders of time being the dungeons/trials themselves because no one really does them anymore, and that is being mitigated with allowing sub-8man parties)

I guess it stands to be pointed out that Heavensward's content is going to be gated by it's story, much as everything else has been prior, and in order to delve into Heavensward's story you still need to finish 2.0's story so... nothing changes.

As a new player I have no objections to playing through the main storyline quests.

What does concern me, however, is the number of group quests.

Once Heavensward launches I wonder how possible it will be to find groups for dungeons etc to complete the necessary objectives to enable us to progress into Heavensward content once it launches and the vast majority of players are, understandably, playing through the new content.

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Originally Posted by Alunari

As a new player I have no objections to playing through the main storyline quests.

What does concern me, however, is the number of group quests.

Once Heavensward launches I wonder how possible it will be to find groups for dungeons etc to complete the necessary objectives to enable us to progress into Heavensward content once it launches and the vast majority of players are, understandably, playing through the new content.

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They do a decent job of encouraging people to go back to older content.
I'm sure you've met a few 50's leveling up if you'd done dungeons.

There'll also people quite a few people leveling Dark Knight, Machinist and Astrologian.
So I think it's possible they'll shorten the queue, even if they might have the main story quest.

There might be a lull right after the expansion comes out.
But it's also possible that returned veterans will be on after Heavensward is out, trying to finish up their own main story.

Anyway, I still always find it surprising to get groups in reasonable time for effectively outdated content.
If all else fails, they're allowing you to go in unsynced and without the required amount of people, in Heavensward.
That means, you can ask for help if you've got an FC or some LS. There are a lot of helpful people for that sort of thing.

I knew this thread was coming. I look forward to the epic discussion/rage once Heavensward finally drops. I warned a few of my friends that play and they don't even believe me nor do they visit these forums so I know there are A LOT of people out there in for a VERY rude awakening come the 19th. For the record I do believe that blocking new players from new content is a massively bad idea of epic proportions, but we all know that Square has this horribly bad habit of not listening to common sense until it's apocalyptically too late. It's like dealing with an idiot savant.

As a fairly new player myself I can tell you before I got into this game I was originally going to wait until heavensward to start playing because I didn't see the point, all i wanted to do was play that awesome looking astrologian class. If not for blind luck and impatience making me start playing a couple of months ago I would have been royally screwed and severly disappointed come the expansion. Even when I was playing I only found out about the content block through sheer luck of someone mentioning it offhandedly and i didn't believe "because who the heck would do something so stupid?!" yea... so i looked it up. Lo and behold it was true! So i started REALLY playing to finish the story and then some. Many people did not or are not doing this for many reasons not least of which is the fact that unless you actually LOOK REALLY HARD for this bit of info Sqaure is not going out of its way to tell you about it.



They are basically trolling any newcomers and even older players, players that never finished the story or have no desire to "I know people who have said to me they have no desire to finish the story" MASSIVELY. I played a lot of mmo's over the years and I can honestly say I've NEVER seen an mmo go so friggin far out of it's way to just give their player base such a massive middle finger as this game. If the gameplay itself wasn't so much fun coupled with the fact that better mmo's have yet to be released in NA "Looking at you Black Desert!" I would have already dropped it. But im here for now and i'm ready for the fireworks to come.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...on_stewart.gif

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Originally Posted by Alunari

As a new player I have no objections to playing through the main storyline quests.

What does concern me, however, is the number of group quests.

Once Heavensward launches I wonder how possible it will be to find groups for dungeons etc to complete the necessary objectives to enable us to progress into Heavensward content once it launches and the vast majority of players are, understandably, playing through the new content.

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Pre-30: Terrible.

30+ : Not that bad. The new jobs start at 30, and we have to go to the old world to level them. That means the 30+ dungeons (realistically 28+ starting at Haukke Manor) are going to be flush with players. Pre-30 dungeons will just be people doing their daily roulettes.

Thank you for your responses, Allyrion and Catwho :)

I'm really looking forward to Heavensward, but was worried that I was a little late to the party when it came to getting everything done in this expansion. I don't want a quick fix, or a pass through to the Heavensward content, I am loving the storyline and the quests.

I know I'll have hit 50 by the time the expansion is released, the question is how far into the post 50 quests I will have managed to progress ^_^

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Pre-30: Terrible.

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With all the lv51+ jobs doing Sastasha (normal) because of Exp dungeon roulette (lv17-49 & 51-59 dungeons will be in the same roulette) it will be not so terrible.

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

They are basically trolling any newcomers and even older players

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So you would let start new players in Isghard, as a lvl 30, with no knowledge and knowing if they set one foot out of Isghard they get killed by a lvl 50+ mob?
Or would you want that everybody starts from lvl 1 again, and that all new zones have mobs from lvl 1 till 50+?

Even if they make the jobs available outside of Isghard, you would need to have a lvl 50, and yeah, why would Isghard even let you pass?

And no point in saying to let them start as an AST/DRK/MCH in one of the 3 city states, since there is no guild for them. (BTW, we never start as a job, we start with a class. AST/DRK/MCH = JOB)

Sorry but a brand new player shouldn't just be allowed into a new area just because he is new. All I see is a staxk of excuses just to get alts into Heavensward with little to no work. The grind isn't even a grind. Get story done and you lvl at the same time. It's win win.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Sorry but a brand new player shouldn't just be allowed into a new area just because he is new. All I see is a staxk of excuses just to get alts into Heavensward with little to no work. The grind isn't even a grind. Get story done and you lvl at the same time. It's win win.

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Exactly, why would they even play/buy a game if it was to skip 90% of it. They could spend money om something else then.

Considering that with the EXP buff to MSQ, it will most likely be, by far, the fastest way to level a new character (like WAY faster than the mind-numbing FATE grind some people call "fun"), there is absolutely no reason why new players shouldn't want to do the MSQ. If they don't care about the story, they can just skip all the cutscenes and dialogues. Though as already said, if they don't care about the story, why are they playing an FF game?

Access to new JOBs being gated is weird, but even access to the rogue CLASS is gated, and the new jobs don't have base classes and start at 30, so yeah...

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Originally Posted by Reisui

So you would let start new players in Isghard, as a lvl 30, with no knowledge and knowing if they set one foot out of Isghard they get killed by a lvl 50+ mob?
Or would you want that everybody starts from lvl 1 again, and that all new zones have mobs from lvl 1 till 50+?

Even if they make the jobs available outside of Isghard, you would need to have a lvl 50, and yeah, why would Isghard even let you pass?

And no point in saying to let them start as an AST/DRK/MCH in one of the 3 city states, since there is no guild for them. (BTW, we never start as a job, we start with a class. AST/DRK/MCH = JOB)

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Short answer. Yes. Let them start at lvl 1. New players don't give a flying f*k about the story sorry. They want to play the game. This game contrary to popular belief is not hard. Tedious yes. Hard no.

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Originally Posted by Reisui

Exactly, why would they even play/buy a game if it was to skip 90% of it. They could spend money om something else then.

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This is just an elitist " i had to do it so new players should have to as well" mentality and last i checked this is a horrible way to bring in new players which this game needs to survive.

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

Short answer. Yes. Let them start at lvl 1. New players don't give a flying f*k about the story sorry. They want to play the game. This game contrary to popular belief is not hard. Tedious yes. Hard no.

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So you wanna downgrade the zones, and have lvl 50 players with ilvl 120+ go in new zones with mobs lvl 1? Wow thats fun /sarcasm

And don't speak in general, it's not because you don't give a damn about the story, that other don't.
And as many said before, this is an FF game, so story is very important. Isghard is locked due the story/lore.

Not happy? Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Sorry but a brand new player shouldn't just be allowed into a new area just because he is new. All I see is a staxk of excuses just to get alts into Heavensward with little to no work. The grind isn't even a grind. Get story done and you lvl at the same time. It's win win.

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thats all it really boils down to in the end... it really isnt about the new players at all most just use that instead of saying NO i dont like content being gated.. so try to look better by pretending to think about the "new" players but in reality only thinking about themselves :P

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Originally Posted by XxSliphxX

New players don't give a flying f*k about the story sorry. They want to play the game. This game contrary to popular belief is not hard. Tedious yes. Hard no.

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I would REALLY love to see your source for these claims.
They don't care about the story? This is an FF game! It's HIGHLY story-focused!
They want to play the game? They ARE playing the game by playing the story!

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Originally Posted by Reisui

So you wanna downgrade the zones, and have lvl 50 players with ilvl 120+ go in new zones with mobs lvl 1? Wow thats fun /sarcasm

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Cmon man you can think better than this. Let them start in the old zones at lvl 1. No need to even add new content. Easy.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

I would REALLY love to see your source for these claims.
They don't care about the story? This is an FF game! It's HIGHLY story-focused!
They want to play the game? They ARE playing the game by playing the story!

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I am your source. I am a new player "less than 3 months" I didnt give a flying F about the story. I liked the artstyle and the characters. The story was tedious and just something i needed to get done in order to play the astro like i originally wanted to. I realize a lot of people play for the story I am not one of them. I play for +1 better gear and being the best at my class i can be. That's my motivation the story has zero to do with that.