Can you please Ease Up on Atma now?

I just don't see the point in keeping the drop rate this bad, especially with the item levels on the verge of going up.

So you can get an iLevel 100 weapon easier? WOOOOAAAAAHHHH that's something people should totally complain about!!!

The thing is, this is still a game that costs a fee monthly and needs to be fun. There is absolutely nothing fun about FATE grinding mixed with RNG. Especially to have the most time consuming section be the very beginning of the quest chain? Ramping drop rate bonuses based on FATEs completed and not leaving the zone would be perfectly fine.

The Atma grind is horrendous (even though I have my Novus), and besides general "grind complaints," another issue is that FEWER people are doing FATEs, which means it takes even longer for those working on their Atma stones to get them (and some FATEs just aren't soloable). Here are 2 other ideas for Fixes to the Atma grind brought up a few months ago when it started:

1. Increase Percentage(%) Chance for Atma Stone drop for Every FATE in the Zone you've Completed, Until it Finally Drops.

Let's say the starting % Drop Rate is 1%. If you do a FATE and nothing drops, Square should add, say, +1% to your chance, so the NEXT FATE you do now has 2% chance. So at the most, you'd have to do 99 FATEs in the zone (+1% x 99 tries) to finally get your Atma Stone (if you had the worst luck).

This allows Yoshi P to keep that "Random Number Generator" / "Lottery" feel and grind (ugh), while providing a safety (and sanity) net for Players. So if you have bad luck, at least eventually you'll get the Atma to drop within a reasonable amount of time. The Actual # can be balanced to whatever feels fair (+2%, +5%, etc.).


2. Allow Any Player with an Atma, Animus or Novus version of the Weapon doing FATEs to still get a chance at Atma Drops.

This will *increase* the number of Players participating in FATEs around the world, since Animus / Novus players will want to farm for Alexandrite drop chances, *and* can work on their 2nd, 3rd+ Jobs' Atma Stones.

It's a Win-Win for everyone, and brings people back to doing FATEs a bit more than it is now.

Dev Team, please consider this fix. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by maxthunder1

No it is not this is a quest you dont have to do but you wanna have it changed to something you like. Even in XI after the nerf the grind was there. Regardless if it is bis now or in the future it dosent need to be made easier. If this game was a few years old it would be understandable but it isnt its only 1 year old and these are new parts to the relic quest its way to early. This is an endurance can you handle it?

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It isn't endurance because it's luck. I don't think many people are grasping that. It is 100% luck based. There's nothing endurance based on someone getting their atma instantly and another farming 1200 FATEs with it still incomplete. It's just far too swingy because there is no mechanic to bring the long running failed drops into line. There needs to be a ramping drop increase for each FATE done in a zone without leaving.

To be honest, I haven't even tried to do one FATE in order to get atmas, the whole procces seems really boring and time wasting to me, I have better stuff to do with my time than to wait for a FATE to appear in order to farm mindless content in hope for an atma drop that might never come.

I prefer to run dungeons and level other classes.

I GOT MY FIRST ATMA LIKE 4 DAYS AGO AND HAVENT BEEN SINCE W0O0O0O0OT!

Atma isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Just casually do it here and there while waiting in queue for things. I did that for my second set to prepare for Ninja and I barely even had to try. Just do some fates here and there, you're bound to get your atma eventually. There's no point in forcing yourself to grind away at it for hours and hours at at ime.

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Originally Posted by Amused

Atma isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Just casually do it here and there while waiting in queue for things. I did that for my second set to prepare for Ninja and I barely even had to try. Just do some fates here and there, you're bound to get your atma eventually. There's no point in forcing yourself to grind away at it for hours and hours at at ime.

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That's, indeed, one way to look at it.
But still, it doesn't quite feel right to think of "the ultimate job weapon questline" as a mere "meh, I'll just do it casualy while waiting in queues".

Plus, it doesn't solve the problem of it being super boring and purely luck based. Even more with that casual method, some people will never get it since farming for hours is the only "reliable" way of increasing the chances to get Atmas.

Finaly, depending on your role (Tank/Healer/DPS) you might not even have enough waiting time in some queues to be able to complete a single FATE, depending on the queue you're in.

So, yeah. Even if it makes the process less of a tedious chore, it doesn't really solve the core problem.

I've pissed off a few friends. I havent bothered at all with atma but I have 4 of them now. One I got by taking one swing at a fate mob in mor dhona as I ran past. another I got for helping my son get his lightening quest done, and the other two were a "there is a FATE in my way, lets kill it!" I'll get them eventually but its not something I MUST have for those extra 5 iLevels. I know this will be eased eventually, at the very least it will be eased or replaced entirely when 3.0 hits, until then, I like my PvP weapon, much easier to attain and I can see my progress towards it in a tangible way.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I've pissed off a few friends. I havent bothered at all with atma but I have 4 of them now. One I got by taking one swing at a fate mob in mor dhona as I ran past. another I got for helping my son get his lightening quest done, and the other two were a "there is a FATE in my way, lets kill it!" I'll get them eventually but its not something I MUST have for those extra 5 iLevels. I know this will be eased eventually, at the very least it will be eased or replaced entirely when 3.0 hits, until then, I like my PvP weapon, much easier to attain and I can see my progress towards it in a tangible way.

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Those are NOT friends to have if theyre getting pissed at you for not having atma. That's just me though. Or do I have this wrong, like usual? :(

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Originally Posted by Wyrmnus

Those are NOT friends to have if theyre getting pissed at you for not having atma. That's just me though. Or do I have this wrong, like usual? :(

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lol, not pissed as in "I'm going to f*cking cut you and i never want to contact you again." But RL friends who go "I f*cking hate you...."

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Originally Posted by zemogFC

Man, with all the bitching done in this thread, people could have farmed a full set of atma by now!
I think people are looking at this wrong...

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Or none at all... coz... 1% drop rate 'n all.

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Atma is the most difficult part of this game.

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Another clown who associates a low rate drop to difficulty.

1. Fates already scale with difficulty the more/faster people are doing them.
2. ATMA does not scale: you either roll high or you consecutively roll low. It is for the latter group that i protest this design - Because i am not an ass%@!&. Unlike the small group of maroons who got theirs in 12 hours, so claim the rate is fine, or the other group who claim people are not trying hard enough - well to them i have some choice expletives, since the person I was atma farming with got no atma's in the same period of time that i got 3 of the same.

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Its mental endurance.

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Which translates to physical as well, coz, you know, some people are prone to stress illness when something they want continuous gives them the finger.

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Its solo content.

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Its not, its most definitely not.
I'd certainly love to see you solo lazy lawrence.

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No one is going to carry you through it.

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This is false. Especially so for those assholes that tag a few enemies and then run off without helping to complete the fate. They have more or less just been carried by whatever lowbies are doing them - or the other more courteous atma farmers who stick around to finish the fate.

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You can't get better by practicing.

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Ah, but difficulty would imply that you would get better at it.

Hence why people should stop tossing that word around here....

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Its all about fighting your brain.

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No, its all about fighting a non existential enemy, that is, a 1% rng rate that could see one person get 12 in 10 hours, and another get 1 in 3600 hours.

To be honest, i'm starting to think that SE will introduce another way to continue the relic quest or acquire atmas in the next patch. They must be planning something...
I don't really see a way around it really, especially when newcomers will most likely chain their relic questline- it's gonna be overwhelming with all the content being jammed on 2.4
how will the new players catch up anyway? more nerfs? lol

Atma really does need a speed up, its just a bunch of annoyance all for a literally worthless upgrade. I got my first atma on the first fate I did when I got the quest and got my second on the first fate of that day sometime later then did not get another till a couple months later which was yesterday, then I got 4 atmas on that day. Even with that ungodly luck Im still on the side of making atma hunting less annoying, its just a terrible "reward" all at the cost of: The time of your day(s), sanity, sleep, getting an aneurysm.

All this crap for a end result that should be a reward for a quest that consists of just talking to people. It is the only quest reward that angers you upon completion provided you did not know the atma upgrade does nothing to the weapon.


Nevermind, its still rage inducing even when knowing it upgrades nothing.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

To be honest, i'm starting to think that SE will introduce another way to continue the relic quest or acquire atmas in the next patch. They must be planning something...
I don't really see a way around it really, especially when newcomers will most likely chain their relic questline- it's gonna be overwhelming with all the content being jammed on 2.4
how will the new players catch up anyway? more nerfs? lol

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Why do new players need to have an easy way to catch up? Doing this only serves to trivialize older content and shorten the lifespan of it. Why do that? Why make old content obsolete?

^its actually the opposite.

Not shortening the lifespan will reduce the incentive for players to begin or continue the Relic Quest.

Not easing up is what will kill the Relic Questline for new entrants & cause much fewer players to repeat it.

Atma in & of itself even killed numerous players' incentive to move forward with it.

If they ease it up, I guarantee you the Relic Goers will be far more active.

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Originally Posted by Amused

Why do new players need to have an easy way to catch up? Doing this only serves to trivialize older content and shorten the lifespan of it. Why do that? Why make old content obsolete?

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Trivialize? Isn't it already trivial enough, considering you're going around smacking low level mobs in your level 50 gear? And shortening the lifespan of something that's based PURELY on luck and NO other factor whatsoever is a good thing in my books.

Is Atma farming really "content"? One that you, personally, enjoy, even? How many Atma weapons did you farm?

The longer the path gets- the more likely it is they will make earlier stages easier.

This is unavoidable.

There will also be more people who want it to be easier as it ages.

So what do you think will happen? There's no use even arguing.

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Originally Posted by Amused

Why do new players need to have an easy way to catch up? Doing this only serves to trivialize older content and shorten the lifespan of it. Why do that? Why make old content obsolete?

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How many people do you know that would sit around and say "OHH NOOO!!! they made atma easier to get! I really enjoyed grinding fates for hours without getting anything..."

SPOILERS:

The answer is nobody because it's old content and they're not doing that anymore.

The only people that don't want Atma to be easier to obtain are the people that want everyone to suffer as they suffered...which is selfish. I don't wish that grind on anyone. It's not fun, it's not challenging, it's just tedious.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Trivialize? Isn't it already trivial enough, considering you're going around smacking low level mobs in your level 50 gear? And shortening the lifespan of something that's based PURELY on luck and NO other factor whatsoever is a good thing in my books.

Is Atma farming really "content"? One that you, personally, enjoy, even? How many Atma weapons did you farm?

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Originally Posted by Chambers

How many people do you know that would sit around and say "OHH NOOO!!! they made atma easier to get! I really enjoyed grinding fates for hours without getting anything..."

SPOILERS:

The answer is nobody because it's old content and they're not doing that anymore.

The only people that don't want Atma to be easier to obtain are the people that want everyone to suffer as they suffered...which is selfish. I don't wish that grind on anyone. It's not fun, it's not challenging, it's just tedious.

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It's not so much that I enjoy the way Atma functions right now as much as I'm concerned about things being made easier as a whole. Where does it stop? People want Atma to be easier now, but then they'll want the Animus books to be easier too, even though they already are with the increased myth rates and adjusted FATE spawn times. Why does everything have to get easier?

Also, I'd like to bring up the fact that relic is completely optional content, and is essentially a luxury item that is never necessary. Items of essentially equivalent power are much more readily available. Basically, relic is something that doesn't need to be made easier because it isn't even needed in the first place. Its entire purpose was to cater to the people who want a long term goal to work towards. Relics are supposed to be rare, if everyone was running around with a relic, it wouldn't be much a relic anymore, would it?

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Originally Posted by Chambers

How many people do you know that would sit around and say "OHH NOOO!!! they made atma easier to get! I really enjoyed grinding fates for hours without getting anything..."

SPOILERS:

The answer is nobody because it's old content and they're not doing that anymore.

The only people that don't want Atma to be easier to obtain are the people that want everyone to suffer as they suffered...which is selfish. I don't wish that grind on anyone. It's not fun, it's not challenging, it's just tedious.

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I can tell you now, there are a few people who suffered that definitely want this crap nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Amused

It's not so much that I enjoy the way Atma functions right now as much as I'm concerned about things being made easier as a whole. Where does it stop? People want Atma to be easier now, but then they'll want the Animus books to be easier too, even though they already are with the increased myth rates and adjusted FATE spawn times. Why does everything have to get easier?

Also, I'd like to bring up the fact that relic is completely optional content, and is essentially a luxury item that is never necessary. Items of essentially equivalent power are much more readily available. Basically, relic is something that doesn't need to be made easier because it isn't even needed in the first place. Its entire purpose was to cater to the people who want a long term goal to work towards. Relics are supposed to be rare, if everyone was running around with a relic, it wouldn't be much a relic anymore, would it?

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Gotta love slippery slope

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Originally Posted by Amused

It's not so much that I enjoy the way Atma functions right now as much as I'm concerned about things being made easier as a whole. Where does it stop? People want Atma to be easier now, but then they'll want the Animus books to be easier too, even though they already are with the increased myth rates and adjusted FATE spawn times. Why does everything have to get easier?

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Your attempts at preserving difficulty are misguided, as Atma farming has nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with difficulty, only with luck. Making luck-related stuff less likely to screw people over who have no way of influencing it is a GOOD thing. If you want people to have "a long term goal to work towards", then GIVE them a goal to work towards, not a lottery. Is the jackpot something you can work towards?

Farming Atma isn't any less easy than rolling dice, and it is just as luck reliant.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Your attempts at preserving difficulty are misguided, as Atma farming has nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with difficulty, only with luck. Making luck-related stuff less likely to screw people over who have no way of influencing it is a GOOD thing. If you want people to have "a long term goal to work towards", then GIVE them a goal to work towards, not a lottery. Is the jackpot something you can work towards?

Farming Atma isn't any less easy than rolling dice, and it is just as luck reliant.

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If they're going to just hand out Atma, why even have that stage in the first place? Why not just have them give you the Atma right away without having to do anything at all?

I don't see how it being luck based makes it any less of a goal to work towards either, and I never once implied that Atma was "difficult" nor would I ever agree with someone claiming it to be difficult.

Again, I want to return to the point I made earlier. Why does everything have to be made easier? Where do we draw the line?

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Originally Posted by Amused

If they're going to just hand out Atma, why even have that stage in the first place? Why not just have them give you the Atma right away without having to do anything at all?

I don't see how it being luck based makes it any less of a goal to work towards either, and I never once implied that Atma was "difficult" nor would I ever agree with someone claiming it to be difficult.

Again, I want to return to the point I made earlier. Why does everything have to be made easier? Where do we draw the line?

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Again, gotta love slippery slope. Increasing the atma drop rate or finding another method to implement to grind them out does not equate to easing up any other parts of the quest-line or any other parts of the game for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Amused

If they're going to just hand out Atma, why even have that stage in the first place? Why not just have them give you the Atma right away without having to do anything at all?

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Sure, go ahead, remove the Atma stage entirely. I doubt many people would shed a tear, but many would definitely rejoice. If you enjoy gambling, go to a casino. People don't play MMORPGs to be subject to nothing but RNG. You called Relic an optional thing, but, really, everything can be called optional, depending on point of view. It's a game. Raiding is no less optional than Relic is, neither are crafting or PvP. But neither crafting, nor raiding, nor PvP are locked behind pure random chance.

Atma is "content" that virtually nobody enjoys and virtually everyone hates. If it's universally hated, not wanting things to "be made easier" is not enough of a justification to keep it the way it is.

You ask where to draw the line. How about we draw the line at universally hated, boring and trivial "content" that, apparently, made plenty people actually quit the game, for now? I think Atma is the only thing that fits that definition.


I'm all for working towards a goal. I don't mind grinding - unless this so-called "grind" is in fact nothing but gambling. Make things require effort to obtain, make things difficult to obtain. Don't lock people out based on bad luck with RNG.

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Originally Posted by Amused

I don't see how it being luck based makes it any less of a goal to work towards either, and I never once implied that Atma was "difficult" nor would I ever agree with someone claiming it to be difficult.

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Working toward implies progression is obvious to the player, It is unfair that one player can get the atma within 1/100th the time and effort put in by another player.

You are making fundamentally conflicting statements by saying.

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I never once implied that Atma was "difficult" nor would I ever agree with someone claiming it to be difficult.

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and

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Again, I want to return to the point I made earlier. Why does everything have to be made easier? Where do we draw the line?

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Therefore your arguments are completely offpoint and not relevant to the topic of ATMA.

The only easing that adjusting (making better) the way you obtain atma would be upon the nerves of those who spend minutes/hours/days/weeks and haven't completed a set yet. - and would certainly shut the clouts that did get it in a few days up entirely - I'm sick of reading their ignorance tbh.

None of the Relic steps have been changed thus far, it's unlikely that they will change it now, no matter much you ask for it.
People that can't get Atmas from fates are in the minority.

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Originally Posted by EllPii

None of the Relic steps have been changed thus far, it's unlikely that they will change it now, no matter much you ask for it.

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Yoshi-P has already committed to nerfing it in due time, we simply think that time has come and passed a long time ago.

You are also wrong, as items relevant to several of the stages have been made far easier to obtain.

Which? Phasing from Philosophy to Mythology doesn't count because it's natural tier progression.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

Working toward implies progression is obvious to the player

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But it is obvious, you know you've made progress when you get a new Atma.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

It is unfair that one player can get the atma within 1/100th the time and effort put in by another player.

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The only way to make everything fair would be to homogenize things greatly. Life isn't fair either.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

Therefore your arguments are completely offpoint and not relevant to the topic of ATMA.

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But they are relevant, because by addressing everything, I am also addressing Atma. It's also obvious if you've read the forums that people are asking for other parts of Relic to be made easier, as well as a multitude of other pieces of content in the game.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

I'm sick of reading their ignorance tbh.

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Name-calling isn't the way to make your stance more appealing.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Sure, go ahead, remove the Atma stage entirely. I doubt many people would shed a tear, but many would definitely rejoice.

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I don't think you can rightfully claim to speak for the majority of the community. Most people playing the game don't even bother with the forums.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

People don't play MMORPGs to be subject to nothing but RNG.

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You seem to be neglecting the RPG part of MMORPG. RNG is deeply rooted in RPG tradition, and RNG is not always a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Relic an optional thing, but, really, everything can be called optional

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Exactly, so why don't you do the content that appeals to you and get your equivalent reward, rather than trying to force content that is directed at another demographic to appeal to your personal desires?

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Originally Posted by Riepah

It's a game.

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Exactly, so why are you so upset that you can't get a virtual item as easily as some other people might have?

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Atma is "content" that virtually nobody enjoys and virtually everyone hates. If it's universally hated, not wanting things to "be made easier" is not enough of a justification to keep it the way it is.

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Again, please speak for yourself. Nobody can rightfully speak for the majority of the community.

I agree with this suggestion. To all of you calling bs on those that haven't gotten it i get some people may be bs'ing but for me i'm at 800 fates just doing atmas and I'm at 6... today alone i spent 6 hours with not one atma.
I like a grind, i like the challenge. but atma farming isn't a grind. there rest of the relic line you have something to grind to and know that if you put in the time then you will finish. with atma's there's no garentee that if i put in the time i will get anything.
if they made the change to put a cap on it so that there was an achievement for 75 atmas in x area with relic zodiac equipped and make the reward that atma then i could live with that... it will still take alot of time but i would know that at the end i got the atma.

to these people that are saying i got in 5 hours and then there are people that have spent over a 100 hours since atma was released and don't have it yet. it just proves the system is broken not that these people aren't trying.

Myth is now obtainable in more ways; Relevant to Pre-relic, Zenith and Animus.
Alexandrite can now be obtained in more ways; Relevant to Novus.

However, this thread is relevant to a single stage, that being ATMA, and you cannot get beyond Zenith if ATMA remains almost unattainable by a good number of players.

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Originally Posted by EllPii

None of the Relic steps have been changed thus far, it's unlikely that they will change it now, no matter much you ask for it.
People that can't get Atmas from fates are in the minority.

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i have to say that yes they have... they increased how easy it was to get myth to make buying the animus book easy thats a nerf. they increased the drop rate of the animus fates thats a nerf.

and the people without atmas are not a minority as this forum and others like it prove.

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Originally Posted by Amused

But it is obvious, you know you've made progress when you get a new Atma.

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No, as getting 1 atma one week and a second months later is not a sign of progress. It is a sign of chorish filler.

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The only way to make everything fair would be to homogenize things greatly. Life isn't fair either.

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Society makes efforts to bring everyone equal justice (it has more work to do obviously).

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But they are relevant, because by addressing everything, I am also addressing Atma. It's also obvious if you've read the forums that people are asking for other parts of Relic to be made easier, as well as a multitude of other pieces of content in the game.

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Not in this thread they aren't, take your 'justice' elsewhere.

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Name-calling isn't the way to make your stance more appealing.

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Sorry for not being a politically correct nobody, but i don't care if you are offended for being called ignorant when you choose to ignore (hence calling out the ignorant) relevant and exceedingly frustrated players and their pleas to fight for your own percieved ideal of justice that is entirely out of context with this thread.

Maybe being capable of inflection and understanding what others have gone through will adjust your perception, but until then your ignorance is shown through in vibrant shades of black and white (which isn't how the world should be seen)

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

ATMA remains almost unattainable by a good number of players.

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[citation needed]

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Originally Posted by Amused

[citation needed]

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READ THE DAMN THREAD.

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

READ THE DAMN THREAD.

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One thread on the forums is not indicative of the majority of the community.

Also, the fact that people here keep citing that other parts have been nerfed as reasoning for why they should nerf Atma only reinforces the point I was trying to make in the first place. Why does everything have to be nerfed?

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Originally Posted by Squa11_Leonhart

.

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Myth being obtainable in more ways is not for the Relic. It's linear game progression where naturally more content brings more ways to obtain Myths, this is mutually exclusive to the Relic where it just so happens Relic benefits from it.
Alexandrite being obtainable in more ways was already stated before Novus was released. It was completely intentional.

Atma however, nothing about Atma.

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Originally Posted by Sansuna

.

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Okay, out of 2.5million players. Realistically, what? 1million players, and maybe a handful of players complaining about atma? <1000?

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Originally Posted by Amused

One thread on the forums is not indicative of the majority of the community.

Also, the fact that people here keep citing that other parts have been nerfed as reasoning for why they should nerf Atma only reinforces the point I was trying to make in the first place. Why does everything have to be nerfed?

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The fact that the atma stage does literally nothing is a very good reason for it to be nerfed, its the most useless stage of the relic quest and it does nothing but be a pain in the ass while not even giving you the feeling of accomplishment when you finish it.