A Little Pain with my Pleasure

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

random stuff about anti-penalty etc

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So you are saying that you don't think there should be ANY death penalty at all? You die during a leve quest, return to the aether crystal, run over and kill the same mob that just killed you 10 seconds later?

Sorry but no.

How is it a band-aid for a lack of difficulty? If you die, then surely something must be remotely difficult to you. A death penalty should encourage you not to die, to improve, to learn from bad decisions, and hopefully next time you do that same fight you are less likely to die from that. A kid steals a cookie from the jar, do you leave that jar where it was and let them do it again, or do you either give them a slap on the wrist/move the cookie jar to a more difficult place and discourage them from doing it again?

If there is no penalty for your actions then there is no reason not to do it again, and death in a game is a negative action.. Why would you encourage someone to throw themselves at a monster and die until they win? That hardly promotes a "skillful" or "challenging" game with no drawbacks.

*edit*

Guys this isn't an epeen competition about who has beaten what content.. I would suggest removing that ego for a while and come up with something constructive.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Not even remotely true. There's a humongous gap between reading or watching someone play and doing it yourself. Strategy and difficulty need to be added in the gameplay aspect not after a wipe.Death penalty is a cheap nonsolution.


Death penalties have little to do witj skill linkshells or why people don't do content. Its a bandaid for a lack of difficulty and adds none. Exp loss would have serious consequences for groups out raiding and would hamstring smaller parties that coul want to do things like Totorak. And what are you talking about clearing cotent too quick? MAYbe you should ask yourself whats taking you so long?


Boredom is a killer in mmos but so is frustration. Frustrating aspects need to be minimal.


I do my thing get my weapon but if I die and lose a level and can't use it or lose the weapon due to some pointless death penalty you bet I'm off to do something else

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"pointless death penalties" or your pointless deaths? Because your dying certainly impedes the gameplay of other players.

You want raiding to go all day, work to get into that position. Don't pad the walls and turn the game into some corridor to only your favored instance of gameplay(endgame raiding) because you think everything else is "pointless". That destroys a hell of a lot more of the game than any reasonable drop in exp.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I do my thing get my weapon but if I die and lose a level and can't use it or lose the weapon due to some pointless death penalty you bet I'm off to do something else

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Except for that this is XIV (and not XI), and we acquire EXP all the time. It would be very hard, if not impossible, to delevel during a dungeon/raid as you would be acquiring EXP at a much much MUCH faster rate than you'd be losing it.. Unless of course your just dieing over and over and over and over at the beginning.. in which case I'd think the system would be working as intended. Even if you do de-lvl, the very next batch of mobs pulled could re-lvl you. For primals, you'd only have the possibilty of a de-lvl if, again, you were wiping over and over and over, in which case it's working as intended again. And while your out farming more of the pop item (tapers/etc), you'd also be reestablishing your EXP buffer. As I said before, I think this death penalty system could fit in pretty easily with XIV.

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Originally Posted by Exn

It would be very hard, if not impossible, to delevel during a dungeon/raid as you would be acquiring EXP at a much much MUCH faster rate than you'd be losing it.. Unless of course your just dieing over and over and over and over at the beginning.. in which case I'd think the system would be working as intended.

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After clearing trash you will be fighting a boss. If it's a new boss you have to work out a strategy to beat can take many attempts. If players start deleveling it's pretty much end of the raid. This would be very frustrating and some people will blame others for not getting enough exp before raid.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

After clearing trash you will be fighting a boss. If it's a new boss you have to work out a strategy to beat can take many attempts. If players start deleveling it's pretty much end of the raid. This would be very frustrating and some people will blame others for not getting enough exp before raid.

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Considering the entry requirements for instanced end game content is 45+ and the cap is 50, I would find it hard to believe someone would dlvl 5 times. Spamming a boss (since there has been confirmed to have no time limit in dungeons) over and over with no penalty isn't exactly challenging. That sort of behaviour should definitely be discouraged - and there are no true ways of doing this without offloading some form of penalty.

The fact that instanced dungeons will no longer have a time limit, just makes this an even bigger cakewalk.

(Sorry if its been said already, 12 pages of bickering is a lot to go through)

What would the possibility of having a set of servers listed as "Hardcore" it would need to have

- No exp rewards for quests
- Exp loss on death, even de-level
- Animation lock

That should make the "hardcore" crowd happy? Right? If not please add in whatever other features for a "hardcore" version you would need to be satisfied.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

After clearing trash you will be fighting a boss. If it's a new boss you have to work out a strategy to beat can take many attempts. If players start deleveling it's pretty much end of the raid. This would be very frustrating and some people will blame others for not getting enough exp before raid.

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Dieing over and over usually gets frustrating anyway, regardless of any penalties. Also, people blame each other already for not having good enough gear, not knowing the job well enough, not having enough tapers/etc, not saying anything on vent/chat, and the list goes on and on. My point is, the addition an exp loss penalty will not make any difference on ppl getting frustrated with not wining or ppl creating reasons to blame others. Though, I do get your point in that this could add yet another reason for players to get frustrated.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

(Sorry if its been said already, 12 pages of bickering is a lot to go through)

What would the possibility of having a set of servers listed as "Hardcore" it would need to have

- No exp rewards for quests
- Exp loss on death, even de-level
- Animation lock

That should make the "hardcore" crowd happy? Right? If not please add in whatever other features for a "hardcore" version you would need to be satisfied.

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It's not even a hardcore thing though. That's a really awful misconception that any challenge, penalty or difficulty = hardcore. I could just as easily suggest they add "casual" servers where you can get to max level in 30 minutes and can get the best gear from an NPC. But that really wouldn't differ too much from the current status quo would it?(hyperbole of course)

No wonder SE is conflicted. They're getting told that players want 2 different games.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Considering the entry requirements for instanced end game content is 45+ and the cap is 50, I would find it hard to believe someone would dlvl 5 times. Spamming a boss (since there has been confirmed to have no time limit in dungeons) over and over with no penalty isn't exactly challenging. That sort of behaviour should definitely be discouraged - and there are no true ways of doing this without offloading some form of penalty.

The fact that instanced dungeons will no longer have a time limit, just makes this an even bigger cakewalk.

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When there are harder raids deleveling once will stop the raid because everyone should be equipped with lv 50 gear. Deleveling once you will not be able to equip your best gear and the raid may not meet the DPS check for the boss.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

(Sorry if its been said already, 12 pages of bickering is a lot to go through)

What would the possibility of having a set of servers listed as "Hardcore" it would need to have

- No exp rewards for quests
- Exp loss on death, even de-level
- Animation lock

That should make the "hardcore" crowd happy? Right? If not please add in whatever other features for a "hardcore" version you would need to be satisfied.

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Don't lump us all into one boat. Many of those features aren't even being discussed.