The toxicity starting to happen.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Surely the DPS that pulled the mobs in the first place was the one griefing in this case.

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There's a fundamental difference in motivation that's important to understand (This is not an endorsement of pulling as a DPS.);

A DPS that pulls extra mobs is doing so in 99% of cases because they genuinely think the group can do better, and that doing so will make the run more efficient and save themselves time. Although misguided and possibly selfish, they aren't intentionally trying to hurt anyone (usually).

A Tank that intentionally lets someone who pulled die is doing so out of malice, with the explicit intent of hurting another player as a 'punishment', with the known outcome of decreased party efficiency.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

There's a fundamental difference in motivation that's important to understand (This is not an endorsement of pulling as a DPS.);

A DPS that pulls extra mobs is doing so in 99% of cases because they genuinely think the group can do better, and that doing so will make the run more efficient and save themselves time. Although misguided and possibly selfish, they aren't intentionally trying to hurt anyone (usually).

A Tank that intentionally lets someone who pulled die is doing so out of malice, with the explicit intent of hurting another player as a 'punishment', with the known outcome of decreased party efficiency.

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Still don't see why the tank is the villain in this, he made a call on what was a sensible pull if the party is not happy about this they can talk about it after the pull. The DPS going and get those mobs is griefing and and fall out from it rests on him.

As healer I love big pulls but I don't care if the tank is new and wants to take it slow. I encourage them either way.
As a tank, my issue with big pulls is rarely the healer or if I can manage the pull, and more of - are the DPS competent enough to burn everything before healer runs out of MP and I run out of CDs lol

Lastly, it's a game. Let people play as they want. They will learn in due time. Don't be this guy who ruins a dungeon run cause you learned how to optimize a class and others haven't.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

As a healer like... cool?
But if you decide not to tank things I pull then I can decide not to heal you at all.
See where the pettiness goes?

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And then we all die because there is no one to tank that big pull... was it worth pulling all these mobs? :P

I don't think respecting your party members = pettiness. If you really want a big pull then ASK the tank if they'd be okay with pulling more.

As a tank I know my gear, I know how squishy I am and most of the time where mobs in the dungeon are located and how many of them. If I think that killing a few of them and then pulling the rest that's ahead is a better idea than pulling everything and then dying because I can't take this much damage then this is what I'm gonna do.

Again, instead of disrespectfully pulling things and expecting a tank to save you from mobs they didn't want to pull you should simply ask them.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Still don't see why the tank is the villain in this, he made a call on what was a sensible pull if the party is not happy about this they can talk about it after the pull. The DPS going and get those mobs is griefing and and fall out from it rests on him.

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Because it's almost guaranteed anything the dps manages to pull without dying is survivable by the tank. Theres absolutely no good reason why the tank should let the party die out of spite. Take it on the chin clear the pull, then decide as a party if the DPS pulling mobs is or isn't appropriate for the party if the DPS is being disagreeable with the party then boot them.

Just because you are the tank does not mean you get to decide to kill the party to "teach" that impatient DPS.

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Originally Posted by Reldhir

Because it's almost guaranteed anything the dps manages to pull without dying is survivable by the tank. Theres absolutely no good reason why the tank should let the party die out of spite. Take it on the chin clear the pull, then decide as a party if the DPS pulling mobs is or isn't appropriate for the party if the DPS is being disagreeable with the party then boot them.

Just because you are the tank does not mean you get to decide to kill the party to "teach" that impatient DPS.

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I agree with you on that, and that is what I would do. However I dislike in these threads that people seem to push doing this to tanks and demonise the tanks. If the party wipes it's because of the DPS being foolish with the adds and if anyone was griefing it was him. I don't disagree that it would be more sensible to take the adds and then talk about it but the fault lies with the DPS not the tank

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I agree with you on that, and that is what I would do. However I dislike in these threads that people seem to push doing this to tanks and demonise the tanks. If the party wipes it's because of the DPS being foolish with the adds and if anyone was griefing it was him. I don't disagree that it would be more sensible to take the adds and then talk about it but the fault lies with the DPS not the tank

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If the tank pulls aggro off those additional mobs and dies as a result of not being prepared for them or the healing flubbing up. Yes, you can fault the DPS. Everyone made an adjustment but something got missed. If, on the other hand, the tank throws a tantrum and refuses to pull aggro from those additional mobs and wipe occurs (or the DPS player dies), then it's entirely on the tank because they have the tools to adjust but simply chose not to use them.

Keep in my, griefing require malicious intent. Like LittleImp said, the DPS or healer pulling extra mobs very rarely intends for it to go poorly. A tank "teaching them a lesson" always does.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

And then we all die because there is no one to tank that big pull... was it worth pulling all these mobs? :P

I don't think respecting your party members = pettiness. If you really want a big pull then ASK the tank if they'd be okay with pulling more.

As a tank I know my gear, I know how squishy I am and most of the time where mobs in the dungeon are located and how many of them. If I think that killing a few of them and then pulling the rest that's ahead is a better idea than pulling everything and then dying because I can't take this much damage then this is what I'm gonna do.

Again, instead of disrespectfully pulling things and expecting a tank to save you from mobs they didn't want to pull you should simply ask them.

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All this implies I'd need saving, though.

Realistically with a pull not being tanked enemies are going to be hitting at the very least the healer and the a dps, likely both.

A tank is a luxury, just like a healer is. If people are playing with their brains turned on you dont need both to really participate, even on larger pulls.

But hey, go on being petty I guess. I hope I get you in a roulette one day so I can tank a pull as WHM while healing myself and the dps just to help get that ego in check.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If the tank pulls aggro off those additional mobs and dies as a result of not being prepared for them or the healing flubbing up. Yes, you can fault the DPS. Everyone made an adjustment but something got missed. If, on the other hand, the tank throws a tantrum and refuses to pull aggro from those additional mobs and wipe occurs (or the DPS player dies), then it's entirely on the tank because they have the tools to adjust but simply chose not to use them.

Keep in my, griefing require malicious intent. Like LittleImp said, the DPS or healer pulling extra mobs very rarely intends for it to go poorly. A tank "teaching them a lesson" always does.

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The healer/DPS could just not pull the extra adds? If people are so worried about pull sizes they could just play tanks themselves rather than pushing this kind of drivel

Giving someone a scare is one thing, but letting someone die due to the desire of teaching a lesson is petty and a waste of time especially when a tank can get the aggro with one or two uses of their AoE skills.