Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

well when it comes to tanking i understand emity fine for dungeons but when it comes to content with 2 or more tanks i no longer understand it so i just don't think them even though i want to because how uptight most ppl are with standards cant even relearn tank as a 2nd role for raids,ally raids and trails.

Even when you say first time tanking here you get attacked over 1 mess up and told go watch a video... Ppl shouldn't have to learn your way some of us learn through trail and error.


As for AOEs aka red spots ... well two things if the aoe does only half of what i can heal no point dodging it when regen,barrier will just recover or eat it anyways lol Lets be honest half the aoes aren't a issue if the healer has good healing numbers for the fight

example aoe hits 6k well i can heal 12k on avarage and my barrier will eat most of the 6k so y dodge it and waste cast time i had built up lol

but normally i just take the hit when talking to fc, or linkshell because the sane old fight boors me lol
But really half the time ppl hit by aoe is because either not worth dodging or talking in chat, or just ditzy zoning out lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

well when it comes to tanking i understand emity fine for dungeons but when it comes to content with 2 or more tanks i no longer understand it so i just don't think them even though i want to because how uptight most ppl are with standards cant even relearn tank as a 2nd role for raids,ally raids and trails.

---

Tanking is tanking, the type of content does very little to change how you'd play. FFXIV rarely has tank-swaps, but knowing how to use Shirk makes transitions easy. Otherwise, the off-tank is just a glorified DPS who might have to pick up adds.

Quote:

---

Even when you say first time tanking here you get attacked over 1 mess up and told go watch a video... Ppl shouldn't have to learn your way some of us learn through trail and error.

---

The problem comes when that "trial and error" is causing the rest of the group grief. Especially when it's something you should know better on. Like a lvl70 tank shouldn't need to be told not to face a boss towards the raid (and everyone else should know better than to ever be in front of a boss anyway), but I had a tank in Orbonne yesterday kill 90% of the raid on Agrias because he didn't face her away for Thunder Slash.

Quote:

---

As for AOEs aka red spots ... well two things if the aoe does only half of what i can heal no point dodging it when regen,barrier will just recover or eat it anyways lol Lets be honest half the aoes aren't a issue if the healer has good healing numbers for the fight

example aoe hits 6k well i can heal 12k on avarage and my barrier will eat most of the 6k so y dodge it and waste cast time i had built up lol

but normally i just take the hit when talking to fc, or linkshell because the sane old fight boors me lol
But really half the time ppl hit by aoe is because either not worth dodging or talking in chat, or just ditzy zoning out lol

---

I just... I'm almost at a loss for words.

Intentionally eating easily avoidable damage just because it can be healed through puts you square into the camp of people that this thread is talking about. The least that would happen is you're forcing your healers to waste MP on you instead of using it to contribute DPS or do something else more productive.

The worst that happens is you flat out die (because how will you know if the AoE is trivial or not without eating it at least once? Sometimes you're going to lose that gamble) or you incur a debuff that will likely get you killed later. Using Mustadio in Orbonne for example, his Handgun attacks won't usually outright kill you if you're topped off, but they will give you vulnerability stacks. Even a single stack will make it impossible to survive his Last Testament sniper attack--all because you couldn't be bothered to move out of the way of what you think is a trivial AoE. Now the healers have to waste time, mana, and cooldowns on picking you back up.

If the entire group played like that you would never clear anything, so keep that in mind the next time you think it's appropriate to sandbag it and make your group pick up the slack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Tanking is tanking, the type of content does very little to change how you'd play. FFXIV rarely has tank-swaps, but knowing how to use Shirk makes transitions easy. Otherwise, the off-tank is just a glorified DPS who might have to pick up adds.



The problem comes when that "trial and error" is causing the rest of the group grief. Especially when it's something you should know better on. Like a lvl70 tank shouldn't need to be told not to face a boss towards the raid (and everyone else should know better than to ever be in front of a boss anyway), but I had a tank in Orbonne yesterday kill 90% of the raid on Agrias because he didn't face her away for Thunder Slash.



I just... I'm almost at a loss for words.

Intentionally eating easily avoidable damage just because it can be healed through puts you square into the camp of people that this thread is talking about. The least that would happen is you're forcing your healers to waste MP on you instead of using it to contribute DPS or do something else more productive.

The worst that happens is you flat out die (because how will you know if the AoE is trivial or not without eating it at least once? Sometimes you're going to lose that gamble) or you incur a debuff that will likely get you killed later. Using Mustadio in Orbonne for example, his Handgun attacks won't usually outright kill you if you're topped off, but they will give you vulnerability stacks. Even a single stack will make it impossible to survive his Last Testament sniper attack--all because you couldn't be bothered to move out of the way of what you think is a trivial AoE. Now the healers have to waste time, mana, and cooldowns on picking you back up.

If the entire group played like that you would never clear anything, so keep that in mind the next time you think it's appropriate to sandbag it and make your group pick up the slack.

---

lol i am normally the healer and barrier takes all but maybe 2k-3k dmg which is nothing if you got good mp control lol.

also big difference in holding emity from boss and 2 tanks having to hold differnt things when most partys don't talk lol to say what they are getting.
in fact as a healer in fine with ppl standing in aoes so long as its not one that gives auto death if the healer cant controll mp well of course dont do it but a true healer knows their limit and as a barrier user i have little 2 no limit lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

If the entire group played like that you would never clear anything, so keep that in mind the next time you think it's appropriate to sandbag it and make your group pick up the slack.

---

Unfortunately this is the kind of player you encounter who's just gonna keep playing like they do. They're not a huge detriment, but they're making it harder. But it's not wiping levels of bad.. just.. frustrating. All you can do with them is try to help, like you have, and then when they reply.. , like they did, with "we didn't wipe it's fine!" .. make your case and move on. It's annoying for sure, but hardly gamebreaking or as prevalent as the OP seems to imply

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

a true healer knows their limit and as a barrier user i have little 2 no limit lol

---

Do you see the irony in the fact you expect a healer to know their limits and what they can handle.. but you won't bother to know the encounter beforehand? Or the fact you are sacrificing resources to heal to save.. what? DPS?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Unfortunately this is the kind of player you encounter who's just gonna keep playing like they do. They're not a huge detriment, but they're making it harder. But it's not wiping levels of bad.. just.. frustrating. All you can do with them is try to help, like you have, and then when they reply.. , like they did, with "we didn't wipe it's fine!" .. make your case and move on. It's annoying for sure, but hardly gamebreaking or as prevalent as the OP seems to imply



Do you see the irony in the fact you expect a healer to know their limits and what they can handle.. but you won't bother to know the encounter beforehand? Or the fact you are sacrificing resources to heal to save.. what? DPS?

---

with your mp amount if your going below 3k mp at any time no matter what your team is doing unless its scapes or a alliance raid you shouldn't be playing a healer period lol.

ive walked into fights without looking up i do dmg,heal and never has my mp hit below 5k and 5k is rare moments lol... learning mp controll and how 2 absorb a aoe has nothing 2 do with a fight lol thats simple

it literally hardly phases my mp pull lol most ppl get full health with 1 weak heal cure,benefict 1 ,phystick lol. the tank might take 2-3 times but dps 1 heal is enough for full hp even if they hit 1k hp some how lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Even a single stack will make it impossible to survive his Last Testament sniper attack--all because you couldn't be bothered to move out of the way of what you think is a trivial AoE. Now the healers have to waste time, mana, and cooldowns on picking you back up.

---

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they're likely not one to push for healer DPS and are the type to stand around waiting to heal people so in their mind there's really no 'loss' as far as they're concerned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

with your mp amount if your going below 3k mp at any time no matter what your team is doing unless its scapes or a alliance raid you shouldn't be playing a healer period lol.

---

Moving out of AOE's is Tank 101. The less damage you take, the less your healers have to pick up slack (even if YOU know you're gonna heal the damage, they don't, especially PUGs), the less they're picking up slack the easier it is to recover if something goes south. You are tanking lazily if you take damage "because it won't kill me". If you take damage it should be unavoidable.

However, if that's how you want to play then I won't say you can't. Just thought I'd point out expecting others to be optimal while you're substandard is part of what bothers the OP. .... "LOL".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

This attitude is absolutely not unique to this game at all. I have seen this stuff in literally every multi-player game I played. There are always players who push back against having to meet a standard. This is just how some people are. People can be lazy or selfish in all aspects of life. Stop phrasing it as if it only happens in FFXIV.

---

While true, I've never seen a community actively embrace it like the FFXIV community has. While content difficulty might be a big contributing factor to it, I feel that it is actually amplified to extreme levels by the fact that gearing differences between players are actually rather small due to how equipment is designed in this game. While in other games, gear differences between two equally skilled players of the same level in the same content might result in one player having like 2-3x the damage output of the other player, the gap in DPS numbers in FFXIV between two equally skilled players that are about 30-40 item levels apart is maybe only about a difference of 20% DPS at the most.

So since players can't exactly hide behind lack of gear as a convenient excuse for under-performing for all but the most extreme cases (like people wearing level 50 gear in level 60 content), it is incredibly easy for most people to tell if someone is really under-performing on a skill level basis.

also the Fights are overall rehash from old fights the entire sb only has 2 new mechanics we haven't seen before lol so I dont get y ppl think its A "NEW FIGHT" no its not lol its literally rehash a majority of the game lol atleast dungeon wise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Moving out of AOE's is Tank 101. The less damage you take, the less your healers have to pick up slack (even if YOU know you're gonna heal the damage, they don't, especially PUGs), the less they're picking up slack the easier it is to recover if something goes south. You are tanking lazily if you take damage "because it won't kill me". If you take damage it should be unavoidable.

However, if that's how you want to play then I won't say you can't. Just thought I'd point out expecting others to be optimal while you're substandard is part of what bothers the OP. .... "LOL".

---

as a tank i only dodge because i don't trust the healer lol

But when I'm the healer it really doesn't matter 2 me i can handle them standing in 50 aoes non stop and still have 4k+mp to deal dmg with lol