Samurai and Red Mage

Unfortunately RDM will probably see no sort of changes on the tier list despite buffs that it may get (similar to drk) because, someone simply has to be the lowest, RDM raise is definitely powerful enough to allow summoner to over take them. The only reasonable solutions i would see is to just buff them so the gap isn’t as wide. I’d also like a less clunky AoE rotation as RDM already has a lot of buttons in general so spamming more buttons for a really slow paced AoE rotation is not fun. Get rid of scatter and just let enchanted molinuet be used independently of the gauge for now.

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

because, someone simply has to be the lowest

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While I understand that you aren't stopping on this note, I have to point out: This is a dangerous way of thinking. To say, even in all honestly, that "we'll never get it perfect" does not excuse neglect in trying to approach that goal. Not that you're saying that it would; I'm merely venting at SE here. v.v

And to what degree are you defining "lowest"? In "general"? In a specific fight? In a specific composition on a specific fight? In terms of ease for a specific mechanic of a specific fight, in a specific composition? All but the first are already true of all jobs, and each add practical flavor to the roster.

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RDM raise is definitely powerful enough to allow summoner to over take them.

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RDM doesn't even quite have the MP to spare to Verraise once per Lucid Dreaming. And deaths are rarely so conveniently timed. Without a second Ranged, and syncing of LD to Refresh, if the fight goes on long enough in continuous uptime, RDM will drain itself of mana through Verraise. SMN, on the other hand, due to its lower average MP costs over rotational phases, sees a smaller relative MP burden from casting Raise, and its loss of all casts over GCD length and longer stretches of mobility in the form of DWT cause it to have virtually no other use for Swiftcast. It is in many ways the superior resurrection-caster. Only a large group of deaths, beyond that of SMN and the two healer's Swiftcasts' ability to recover from, actually offer Verraise real use. And the value of such in progression, especially in fights with strong enrage timers -- whereby the goal is not merely to learn the mechanics, but to learn how to handle them with minimal loss to uptime -- is frequently overstated.

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The only reasonable solutions i would see is to just buff them so the gap isn’t as wide. I’d also like a less clunky AoE rotation as RDM already has a lot of buttons in general so spamming more buttons for a really slow paced AoE rotation is not fun.

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Agreed. That will always be the goal.

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Get rid of scatter and just let enchanted molinuet be used independently of the gauge for now.

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That said... Enchanted Moulinet being used independently of the gauge would merely force the RDM to further crowd melee during AoE phases: imagine O5S's add phase with yet another player in melee range during the self-AoEs. It would be equally repetitive, but forced into melee range rather than forced into immobility every other GCD (as per standard dualcasting).

Rdm is already very disared in every content other than (speed kill) farm raid PFs.

make Rdm anymore desirable, it will completly push out Blm, that is almost nowhere disarable other than (if lucky) some (speed kill) farm Pfs..

imo Rdm should be doing more damage than a brd without Drg Buff or as near as much as Brd + Drg buff,.. if its much lower than that, than atleast bring Rdm dps up a bit, that I agree on, but overall only a slight buff,...

putting Rdm back in a possible meta spot, with all its advantages might just not be fair (would become "best dps for EVERY content of FFXIV"..bye dps balancing, .. beisdes pushing Blm out again, which is desirable only in 20% of the content)

maybe make embolden buff all dps, not just physical or/ and exttend by a few sec., Pfs love buffs of all kind, just buffing embolden a bit could make Rdm more desirable, .. even if that embolden buff doesn't putt Rdm in speed kill meta spot, itwould make sure 99% of all Pfs probably wont mind a Rdm

EDIT:

lookung at the Ultimate Raid:

Rdm with it's "low" dps is still more desirable than Blm.., even if its mostly prog..., but ony 1% do speedkill runs anyway..

Rdm is fine, .. sure, give a bit more dps, so Rdm dont feel week, without pushing Blm out completely .. but the gap from average Rdm and other averge / most dps istn even that big (since Rdm isnt that hard to master, and is very mobile)

nah SMN is more desireable because it brings the MVP ruby carbuncle /Kappa

One thing I REALLY wish they would do with RDM is change how Embolden works.

Embolden currently gives the RDM themselves Magical Attack up, and it gives EVERYBODY else Physical Attack up.

Well, when you have a SMN or BLM in the group, Embolden suddenly loses most of its effectiveness.

Embolden should give Magical Attack up to all healers, SMN and BLM, and it should give Physical Attack up to Ranged, Tank and Melee.

At least that little change would at least make Embolden a little more attractive.

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

Rdm is already very disared in every content other than (speed kill) farm raid PFs.

make Rdm anymore desirable, it will completly push out Blm, that is almost nowhere disarable other than (if lucky) some (speed kill) farm Pfs..

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You're too focused on RDM being anything more than a pile of dirt (like usual) you ignore SMN shining like a glorious beacon of "We're everything that RDM is but better to the point we do even more damage than BLM in some scenarios."

BLM isn't seen as less desirable because of RDM. It's less desirable because of SMN. RDM is less powerful to the nth degree than SMN, it's less mobile than SMN, its bursts don't line up with Trick windows like SMN, and the only thing it has over SMN is an overblown and overhyped spell that in actuality doesn't save raids that much at all.

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imo Rdm should be doing more damage than a brd without Drg Buff or as near as much as Brd + Drg buff,.. if its much lower than that, than atleast bring Rdm dps up a bit, that I agree on, but overall only a slight buff,...

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Well congrats that's about where it is. Why should it be that low though? It just doesn't bring the necessary tools to be worth that low amount of DPS.

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putting Rdm back in a possible meta spot, with all its advantages might just not be fair (would become "best dps for EVERY content of FFXIV"..bye dps balancing, .. beisdes pushing Blm out again, which is desirable only in 20% of the content)

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RDM was never in a possible meta spot. It was never even considered. And the caster that broke back into the meta wasn't RDM, so put your RDM hate boner away.

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maybe make embolden buff all dps, not just physical or/ and exttend by a few sec., Pfs love buffs of all kind, just buffing embolden a bit could make Rdm more desirable, .. even if that embolden buff doesn't putt Rdm in speed kill meta spot, itwould make sure 99% of all Pfs probably wont mind a Rdm

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Nobody's asking for RDM to be in a speed kill meta. We're asking to have an answer to our groups when they say "Roll SMN instead." We're looking for something to say we're not holding back our fucking groups when we play the job we love and surely that's something you understand.

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lookung at the Ultimate Raid:

Rdm with it's "low" dps is still more desirable than Blm.., even if its mostly prog..., but ony 1% do speedkill runs anyway..

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Only 1% do Ultimate anyway too.

Also what do you mean "low"? Its damage is on par with bard's, with nowhere near the utility. If we're talking about desirability in EX fights, I guess, but pugs are generally dumb anyway, so is that the measure we want to go with?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Also what do you mean "low"? Its damage is on par with bard's, with nowhere near the utility

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But you have to remember bard have that "same" damage only because they have dragoon. If bard can do same dps than rdm that mean rdm is doing 300 dps more than bard. Bard/mch is balanced without disembowel. If you check raid dps calculator even rdm can reach 6.7k + raid dps contribution. If their damage would get boosted 200 - 300 they could be close to meta.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

But you have to remember bard have that "same" damage only because they have dragoon. If bard can do same dps than rdm that mean rdm is doing 300 dps more than bard. Bard/mch is balanced without disembowel. If you check raid dps calculator even rdm can reach 6.7k + raid dps contribution. If their damage would get boosted 200 - 300 they could be close to meta.

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I can hit purple MCH without Dragoon, therefore I can surmise that your statement isn't necessarily true. I'll cede most high parsing BRD/MCH have that added damage boost, however it's not a good comparison to just compare 75th percentile to 75th percentile, because 75th percentile can be easily reached without that damage boost for instance.

Also can you link the specific logs where RDM hits 6.7k+ with rDPS? I'm looking at Jump Man's best Demon Chad his rDPS drops to 6.3k. https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...qT3wMxhkr8BY/7 and likewise with his God Kefka clear https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...qT3wMxhkr8BY/7, and he's one of the best RDM there are, so I don't know where else to look.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Also can you link the specific logs where RDM hits 6.7k+ with rDPS?

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There is atleast one.
https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...7MzXTDgCYL2/45
second
https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...c78aDbz1Hhy6/6

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Originally Posted by Sunako

There is atleast one.
https://xivrdps.herokuapp.com/encoun...7MzXTDgCYL2/45

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Hm...that's their personal DPS though, too. Their embolden almost completely got eaten away by all the buffs that RDM was getting. That is, however, a really good speedkill, and I'll cede that in the upper 99th to 100th percentile, when Chad dies at just before the 7 minute mark, RDM can get near 6.7k DPS.