LOLSE, We're not wearing 270 STR to hold hate, c'mon now...

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Originally Posted by Falar

Spoken like a true DPS

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You assume because I leveled RDM to 70 first that I didn't and don't tank? Let's keep this discussion to the topic, and leave the personal attacks or dismissals at the door.

As to your point about getting out of AoE's and popping CD's - You and I both know end game tanking has much more to it than that. You're minimizing your own role as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Why is it that proper tanking isn't a reward enough?

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I'm curious, did you ever try raiding at all during the 3.x Alexander Savage series? Because, in each tier's respective heydays, the fights pretty much required everyone – including Tanks – to maximize their DPS as much as possible in order to clear. This was why Warrior, with its former potential to match actual, albeit subpar, DPS role performance with its damage, was so popular near the end of the previous expansion.

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Originally Posted by Falar

You are describing the bare minimum, that's why.

All those things are required to play tank. If you can't do them, you can't tank. Those are the bare minimum requirements to play the role.

What separates the great tanks from the marginal ones is how much DPS they add to the group while accomplishing their role. When the goal is to kill the enemy any extra DPS that can be found anywhere is a huge bonus.

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Falar also raises an excellent point. It's not exactly the most difficult thing in the world to fulfill your role as an enmity-generating damage sponge, even while dealing with mechanics, tank swaps, and mitigating busters. However, while it is good, maybe even preferred in some cases, to play your role exactly to the letter as is intended, under most circumstances going above and beyond can, and most often does, make or break a clear on difficult content, just the same as a clutch heal, or even clutch healer DPS, has the potential for doing exactly the same thing. Removing said potential and delegating all of the damage responsibility to its intended role, which is already widely-played by most of the community and replete with below-average performance players, is incredibly neutering and would likely cause a lot more justifiable frustration with the playerbase in general.

I feel like, just in the new Omega raid fights alone, I've already experienced a small handful of situations where the Tanks and Healers of a party pretty much salvaged what would've otherwise been disastrous wipes, even with all four DPS on the floor.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

The fact that the i270 STR accessories are still available to tanks is a huge oversight because not everyone can afford passing on 25% HP for 20-25% dmg increase, increasing the gap between players

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It's more like 35 -40%
My dps went from 2200 to 3000

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Originally Posted by PK_THUNER

I think the problem is in 2 parts. Bad tanks that don't know how to handle having lower HP pool (not using defensive cooldowns) and healers that don't know how to handle a tank with lower HP.

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the problem is that people think that as tank they have to be bad ass dps , trying to prove something ,but they forget ur alrdy doing something for the party , as in holding aggro and taking big hits , some dps is just a bonus ^^

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

the problem is that people think that as tank they have to be bad ass dps , trying to prove something ,but they forget ur alrdy doing something for the party , as in holding aggro and taking big hits , some dps is just a bonus ^^

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DPS is enmity, so if you can do great damage then it really fulfills your role.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

I do think that they could do more to make the act of tanking more engaging. This can be accomplished a few ways, but mainly (IMO) they need to make things actually dangerous to our survival more often, so that the act of tanking itself is it's own measure of advancement. Lack of danger leads to wondering what our mitigation is even for. A 6k attack mitigated to 5k means little to nothing when you have 40k HP and the healer can top you off with one spell which costs nearly 0% of their MP.

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Yeah... in tank stance with vit I'm sitting at 60k health and even with super heavy 1 shot tank busters I would rather just eat it in dps stance and use holmegang tank swap have the other tank use their invul swap then use my invul.

Well there you go. You said yourself that tanking isn't all that difficult leading to endgame. I would argue that endgame doesn't present any new mechanics but w/e. You said they could make the act of tanking more engaging and I agree, but the fact is they didn't. Tanking is not more engaging and they took away the one thing that made it more engaging. Increased hp / mitigation through gear means we can use less cds, less engaging. Dps numbers are the only engaging thing to tanking, can you see why people are upset?

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Originally Posted by PK_THUNER

It's more like 35 -40%
My dps went from 2200 to 3000

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3000 DPS. Congratulations for being in the top 10 for Warriors worldwide.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

As to your point about getting out of AoE's and popping CD's - You and I both know end game tanking has much more to it than that. You're minimizing your own role as a tank.

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Like moving a boss and tank swapping? Not that difficult either pal.
I need to worry about helping with DPS because in every piece of content I do I'm in the top 3 DPS 95% of the time. Lazy DPS is why I care about doing more than just taking hits and doing mechanics.
It's not like it makes it so I CAN'T do my job, so why does everyone get so butt hurt about it? Just because everyone else is content with barely, if not at all performing their rotations, doesn't mean we are.

Someone really needs to explain this to me, and it better not be about tanking just needs to worry about a few mechanics, because every time I hear that it makes me think you're just a monkey sitting behind a computer copy pasting the same thing as the other monkies.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

I'm curious, did you ever try raiding at all during the 3.x Alexander Savage series?

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No - I was a 60 tank with appropriate gear during the time and could have found a static but I refused to run Gordias Savage, knowing the tight DPS forced groups to squeeze out 10's of DPS to clear content early. I personally didn't have the time to commit to getting the required gear or the hours of banging my head on the wall to do it, nor did I have any desire to.

SE has clearly stated the difficulty level in early Alex savage was a detriment to the game. This fact is even confirmed by players and why Pepsiman is called the "Static Killer". People flat out unsubbed for months due to it.

SE is clearly trying to change the "muhdeeps!" mentality by placing a choke hold on the ways to increase tank DPS. It's written in neon writing on the friggin wall. People, however, are resisting.

What you explain in support Falar is an actual example of this mentality. What if, instead of letting the DPS lay on the ground dead, tanks managed to stave off damage long enough for the healers to rez the dead dps, and by proxy help the boss die faster, since the dps's roll is to do just that. Why does success have to be based around the TANKS (or in this case, also healers) own dps? Do you see here where a turn in mentality and thinking about a tanks' role in the raid can change based on where your focus is?

Players have been focused on tank DPS now for more than a year. It's a habit SE is trying to break.

People inherently resist change, and so we have what we have now.