Tanks are fine (show your support so they don't change them)

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

I mean, I guess, but then what is YOUR personal utility as the one playing the class? You can't just be sitting back there like a glorified Pokemon trainer while your pet does all the work for you. You'd either have to bring DPS or support yourself or else you're just dead weight that brings along a far more useful AI companion. Again, I feel that eliminates the point of being designated as a Tank class in and of itself.

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You can bring utility and dps while you are managing your pet.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

But, then, you're not the one doing the tanking – your combat pet is. Which makes you filling in a Tank role rather worthless since you're essentially a DPS (or support) either way.

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Semantics.

Thats like saying an evasion tank isnt tanking, since they are not stepping in front of enemy attacks, but instead allowing the attack to go through to their team mates.
It's not about the aesthetics of how it functions, but if it actually fills the role.
It needs to lower the amount a healer heals.
it needs to place bosses in the right spot/direction.
it needs to have damage taken, so healers have something to actually heal.

It can skip traditional tank methods, as long as it fills this role.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

I'm unsure if you're aware of this but Warriors in TERA haven't been dodge tanks since 2013. It's 2017 lol. With the damage output of DPS classes in TERA now I don't think dodge tank would work anymore.
I also am unsure if it would work in FFXIV with damage output as it is.

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No i havent played it recently, though I did hear about how holding hate is pretty much up to the DPS and their threat drops, rather than the tanks.
As for WAR, it shoudlnt be just dodging away from attacks, as that would actually prevent u from dodging more.
You should be attacking the boss, and turning an attack into a dodge.

If your attack lunges forward, use it to lunge to the mobs side, but at an angle so as to also land the hit on the enemy still.
You should never be "not attacking" with the old style.
If anything, they had to nerf how much more dmg and threat a warrior generated compared to a Lancer, since Lancer relied mainly on Taunt for threat, and sitting still behind a shield.
Some people refused to bring Lancers to DPS checks, due to their in ability to do dmg, while trying to mitigate by blocking.

but yes, things have changed, i heard they have Monk, and Berserker now for tanks.
I dont keep up on it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

You can bring utility and dps while you are managing your pet.

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Yes, which makes you decidedly not a Tank.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Semantics.

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Considering this game's adherence to the Trinity, they're important semantics. And I'm not saying anything like what you're implying at all – merely stating that a DPS/support job having Tank functionality does not make them a Tank. Besides, considering that all of these functions are handled just as easily by a Summoner's Titan-Egi, then Summoner seems to be the answer to these grievances about having a ranged-based Tank, provided that you really want to go down that route.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

Yes, which makes you decidedly not a Tank.

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/sigh You control the pet which makes you a tank. You may not think it, but it does make you one because you have complete control of it. I am done with this conversation now because you have what a "tank" is in your mind, and there is no changing that.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

/sigh You control the pet which makes you a tank. You may not think it, but it does make you one because you have complete control of it.

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I know you said you were done, but your rebuttal begs the question: Does that make Summoner a Tank, then?

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

I know you said you were done, but your rebuttal begs the question: Does that make Summoner a Tank, then?

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If they gave more abilities and controls to the titan Egi allowing the SMN to have more agro skills with it, then I would say yes it would qualify as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

I know you said you were done, but your rebuttal begs the question: Does that make Summoner a Tank, then?

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If they took away PLDs ability to move at all during combat, removed all but savage blade, flash, and invincible, but instead gave u a pet that did DPS levels of damage, would you be invited to groups as a tank or a DPS?
My answer depends on your answer.

(In case the direction of my post isnt aparrent, I'll also add in; the pet can dodge mechanics and do all of the mechanics just fine, can do limit breaks, cant be easily targetable by healers, w/o losing their focus target on the boss, to see when the boss uses tank busters, the PLD wouldnt be able to use cool downs for every tank buster, the PLD cant hold hate on trash mobs if the DPS are trying even remotely, unless they wait 30-60s before they start attacking, the amount of dmg mitigated is now lower than a tank in DPS stance not using CDs, the PLD cant voke off another tank, to try and do tank swaps. So on, and so forth. Shoudl PLD be able to queue as a Tank, or a DPS?)

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Originally Posted by Hitsuzen

Being out of tank stance just causes the healer to dps less and heal more for a net gain of near 0 dps collectively.

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This has to be satire? Tanks have to use a stance to lower their damage to only tank so healers don't have to heal as much?

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

If they gave more abilities and controls to the titan Egi allowing the SMN to have more agro skills with it, then I would say yes it would qualify as a tank.

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But, see, you had to tack on an additional qualifier to make your case, which means that, as the Job currently stands, Summoner is not a Tank. Nor would it likely be made such even with additions to the abilities of Titan-Egi, but that's just my speculation based on the functions of its other combat pets.

I mean, Monk has a defensive stance and CAN certainly tank for a short time in a party under very extreme circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily qualify it to fill a dedicated Tank role in a party. Not with the way roles currently work in game.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

If they took away PLDs ability to move at all during combat, removed all but savage blade, flash, and invincible, but instead gave u a pet that did DPS levels of damage, would you be invited to groups as a tank or a DPS?
My answer depends on your answer.

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You're throwing out an awfully abstract and unlikely example there, but Paladin would probably be made a DPS instead of a Tank if that were the case.

Again, I feel like you're both overlooking the fact that this game adheres strictly to the Trinity, but it's not my intent to argue the necessity, benefits, and detriments of that role Trinity structuring. That can be saved for another discussion entirely as I have no vested interest in that particular matter.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

But, see, you had to tack on an additional qualifier to make your case, which means that, as the Job currently stands, Summoner is not a Tank. Nor would it likely be made such even with additions to the abilities of Titan-Egi, but that's just my speculation based on the functions of its other combat pets.

I mean, Monk has a defensive stance and CAN certainly tank for a short time in a party under very extreme circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily qualify it to fill a dedicated Tank role in a party. Not with the way roles currently work in game.

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I never said SMN was a tank though. That was someone else. Could they become one with added stuff? Sure, but I wouldn't recommend it. I think a puppetmaster would be a better tank then SMN. I was just answering you if they could become one.