Waved or Reduced MP cost for Magic combo's

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Klive (and All),

I just wanted to chime in with my experiences in a Spiritbond Party with 2 THM last night, PUG, and myself going on Marauder (we're all Level 50).

We went to Natalan hunting the Level ~53 Ixali (and their Wolves). Suffice to say the 2 THM were destroying the majority of the Ixali targets. I held aggro for as long as possible and then it was just total destruction with the THM blasting through everything. :)

I couldn't keep up with that damage on those links now that Storm's Path is gone (and Path of the Storm is Single Target). They rested inbetween pops, but the respawn on those Ixali are super fast, and we had no MP problems.

I'm not saying MP costs aren't high (they are), but there's something to be said about the mass damage the THM were doing last night. It was pretty amazing. :)

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the reason why is because the ixali are only 3 levels above you and you had 2 THMs.
try doing a leve as being 1 THM and fighting mobs 3 levels above you. its a polar opposite scenario. chaining mobs is almost non existent.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

you literally just repeated every single point ive ever made though.

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Do you understand what literally means? I don't think you do.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

second you keep saying pace yourself and not blow all your MP. this is exactly what im required to do. do you think i want to die because im out of MP while in a leve? no thats even more downtime. i have to wait in between almost every single group of leve mobs. this is pacing myself and is = excessive downtime which twice the amount of downtime as before.

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If you were pacing yourself, you wouldn't be running out of MP. That's the whole point of pacing yourself, and if you run out then you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

while in a party i had more downtime than all of the other classes because i couldnt auto attack and because i had to constantly wait for Parsimony to cooldown. this is downtime.

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...Why? This just tells me you have no idea what you're doing. But I already knew that.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

pacing yourself is slow i dont see how you can say that it isnt. the downtime is double that of before the patch. you cannot argue that.
yes the damage is great, but again, you can only pace yourself so much even when pacing and using every buff you can.

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Of course the downtime is longer than before the patch. Did you even play THM before the patch? All you did was debuff occasionally and throw out cures/stoneskins. I spend more time doing stuff on THM now than I ever did on THM before. I never ran out of MP on THM, because there was never anything to really do that required it. I could do a million things on THM before and none of them would matter (capped DoTs, capped landing rate, crappy offensive spells, inferior healing ability...)

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

therefor it sounds to me the level 50 THM is just as slow paced as my level and in every method inbetween.
ive used featherfoot, but at the cost of another buff because i can only equip so many.
the one thing i can say is my nukes are very rarely resisted, thank god.

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How much experience do you have as a level 50 THM? None? I thought not.

To confuse slower with slow is a mistake. 90 miles per second is slower than 100 miles per second, but neither one is slow. Your experience with your level whatever THM isn't indicative of higher level play.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

to me it seems you like the trade off of high damage at slow battle speeds so anything anyone else says about the class is invalid to you.

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I play PGL, MRD, GLA and ARC as well. I know the difference. THM is burst damage, not DPS, but you know the difference between a THM that paces himself to a THM that doesn't?

It's 10000 damage compared to 40000. It's 3000 damage compared to 9000 damage. A THM that doesn't know what he's doing can only do so little damage over so long a period compared to one that does.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

to me the trade off is high damage for high wait times. why cant the trade off be high damage for high probability of dying unless your leet at your skills and NOT high MP cost? this would require tanks to be awesome at their skills in order to keep agro and give you the opportunity to constantly press damage buttons.
the above example is called a "glass canon"

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Once more showing how little you really know. THM already has a high probability of dying. THM already has to manage hate as well as MP. Being "leet" with your skills brings everything you want to the table already, it's just the more "leet" you are the less trouble you have managing your MP and pacing yourself.

THM is already a glass cannon. If all you want is white noise and button presses to keep your attention like a child pining after the shiny shiny, then play a melee job.

Again, you complain about a job you don't truly understand at a level where you are incapable of understanding it. To me, it sounds like THM isn't the job for you. By extension, I doubt anyone who couldn't handle THM would have a much easier time on BLM.

Im sorry but IMO this sounds just how its suppose to be. Every FF BLM was super high power but was soft and MP was always a problem. This is how i like my BLMs!

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Originally Posted by Elcura

Do you understand what literally means? I don't think you do.



If you were pacing yourself, you wouldn't be running out of MP. That's the whole point of pacing yourself, and if you run out then you're doing it wrong.



...Why? This just tells me you have no idea what you're doing. But I already knew that.



Of course the downtime is longer than before the patch. Did you even play THM before the patch? All you did was debuff occasionally and throw out cures/stoneskins. I spend more time doing stuff on THM now than I ever did on THM before. I never ran out of MP on THM, because there was never anything to really do that required it. I could do a million things on THM before and none of them would matter (capped DoTs, capped landing rate, crappy offensive spells, inferior healing ability...)



How much experience do you have as a level 50 THM? None? I thought not.

To confuse slower with slow is a mistake. 90 miles per second is slower than 100 miles per second, but neither one is slow. Your experience with your level whatever THM isn't indicative of higher level play.



I play PGL, MRD, GLA and ARC as well. I know the difference. THM is burst damage, not DPS, but you know the difference between a THM that paces himself to a THM that doesn't?

It's 10000 damage compared to 40000. It's 3000 damage compared to 9000 damage. A THM that doesn't know what he's doing can only do so little damage over so long a period compared to one that does.



Once more showing how little you really know. THM already has a high probability of dying. THM already has to manage hate as well as MP. Being "leet" with your skills brings everything you want to the table already, it's just the more "leet" you are the less trouble you have managing your MP and pacing yourself.

THM is already a glass cannon. If all you want is white noise and button presses to keep your attention like a child pining after the shiny shiny, then play a melee job.

Again, you complain about a job you don't truly understand at a level where you are incapable of understanding it. To me, it sounds like THM isn't the job for you. By extension, I doubt anyone who couldn't handle THM would have a much easier time on BLM.

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i already do pace myself and it is slow. you cant argue that.
the reason why it is slower than before isnt because i was spamming spells like debuffs, its because of the lack of stygian spikes and drain MP. with those two i was able to keep MP up all the time allowing me to nuke all the time.

i do pace myself and i still run out of MP. i use my parsimony on my higher spells and only use my higher spells at certain intervals.
you go do a leve and try to chain two groups of 3 Dodos 3 levels higher than you. tell me what you get.

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Originally Posted by Klive

Longer fights, I use combos very little. Where combos are great burst, mana efficient they are not. I do not do my full thunder line combo unless I have Parsimony up for thundaga. Second the job are not out yet. The Black Mage is more geared for longer fights and group work.
This ability, from black mage, BLM Abl. 1 Switches current HP and MP values
will help with this long fight and make you white mage hate you at the same time.

Edit: Effective Mana management is going to be the defining mark of a good THM player. At least, that is what I believe.

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It's a fair tradeoff for the significant increase in power mages got. We're able to kill stuff much more easily now, but we have to wait for MP to come back before picking another fight. Thankfully downtime in this game is relatively short.

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Originally Posted by DNO

Im sorry but IMO this sounds just how its suppose to be. Every FF BLM was super high power but was soft and MP was always a problem. This is how i like my BLMs!

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I'm with you. I love this super high damage but at a cost setup. I feel I bring something unique to a party with my super high burst damage. I'm not just another sustained DPS class.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

you cant argue that.

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I think I'm doing exactly that. I think the problem is how you define slow. Define slow for me. Oh, you want to nuke 24/7? Tough luck there, because that's not how you play THM this time around (Hell, it wasn't how you played THM last time around either). THM isn't slow, you just think it's slow (and conversely, I don't. IMPASSE!)

Get used to not having perpetual (and useless) MP. If you can't adapt to the new play style, stop playing it. Again, to say it's slow is wrong. To say it's slower, is right. I'd rather this than waiting 30 seconds to 1 minute for my debuffs to wear off so I can be useful again. I also loved waiting 60 seconds for my debuffs to cooldown because of the capped accuracy rate on landing magic. I loved throwing out 700 sacs when the CNJs are doing 900-1200 Cure IIIs for the same MP.

I love having full MP. And I love having nothing to do with it. If you think constant nuking makes up for that...well I don't what to say to that. You may be doing less overall, but you're getting so much more out of it.

90 miles vs 100 miles, remember?

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Originally Posted by Elcura

I think I'm doing exactly that. I think the problem is how you define slow. Define slow for me. Oh, you want to nuke 24/7? Tough luck there, because that's not how you play THM this time around. THM isn't slow, you just think it's slow (and conversely, I don't. IMPASSE!)

Get used to not having perpetual (and useless) MP. If you can't adapt to the new play style, stop playing it. Again, to say it's slow is wrong. To say it's slower, is right. 90 miles vs 100 miles, remember?

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and thats what i have every right to complain about. Classes were defined by Yoshi to be solo friendly. So far THM is pretty much BLM... FFXI BLM at that. this is not solo friendly. i went from being able to reach cap in two months solo to reaching it in most likely 5 as it seems. i am not able to chain my leve mobs even though i am not playing the Job, im playing the "solo friendly" class.
if you think pacing yourself the extent youve described isnt by definition slow and not just slower then you have the perfect mentality for a game that will only stay as the worlds most niche MMO and i think its a sad thing and a boring, uneventful mentality of what fun gameplay should be. and you talk as if it takes any actual brain power to pace yourself.

i think your wrong for enjoying pacing to that extent, and i think its right to have lower cost and still do the same amount of damage with the trade off of higher agro.

you think its a class i dont understand? i understand burst damage classes. what i dont understand is why THM is acting like BLM and why anyone on the planet would think thats fun. then again there are people who craft so go figure right?

Apples can never be oranges, the sooner you can understand that the better.

The problem isn't that the game is slow, it's that you think that pressing more buttons is more fun. Here's a hint, it isn't. Doing more actions per minute doesn't make the game more fun, it makes it more tedious, especially if those actions don't add up to anything significant. If this was the case, we would still be spamming 1 and 2 for constant light thrusts and heavy swings instead of having auto attack. We would still have 50 abilities that don't do crap and perpetually useless MP.

You know what's better? Having to use your skills smartly in order to be the best you can be. Thinking about what you're doing and working with other classes and people using all the tools your job presents to you. Fantasy Final XIV is slower paced than other MMOs, that doesn't inherently make it more boring. There are a lot of reasons XIV fails as an MMO, and faster game play with more twitch elements is not something that will fix that issue.

You think I'm wrong for enjoying this? I think you're simply an impatient child who's so scared of doing nothing for 2 seconds that it terrifies him into mediocrity.

I'm interested in games like TERA and GW2, but I know that apples can never be oranges. I'd like FFXIV to be the best it can be. I don't want it to be like TERA and GW2. What's the point? If that's the case, I'd just play those games instead (and I likely will).

But hey, if there's one thing, and only one thing we can agree on. It's that crafting sucks.

Not solo friendly? I solo all the time as THM with little to no issue...