Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

It kinda makes me sad because Jumps were what got me into the class.

Anyway everything I think has been said already. It's clunky, slow, unrewarding and frustrating. I was so happy with DRG at level 68. It was so beautifully fluid. Then the level 70 skill attacked.

I'm just going to add that there are fat robots in a certain dungeon... i think it's the level 67 one where if i use Dragon Sight on the tank I literally can't dps the back of this robot because it is THAT fat and the tether range is that short, which means I am forced to chose to keep Dragon Sight buff or get punished for missing positionals. SE is literally forcing us into a lose-lose situation. Lose personal dps or lose utility.
Also I keep being paired with ranged DPS in dungeons. Not only they are always at the far back of the field (clearly the Vault has not taught them anything) but the few times they get close, they seem to freak out with the tether and just keep running way. (I may have stopped DPSing to chase a Bard one time while Dragon Sight was up. It was too funny. I'm sorry Bard.)

Hey, at least there is some intertainment value to be had I guess? (which does not compensate the aneurysm popping stress of tanks being too slow and you being on a timer or a boss just going invuln for ages)

I honestly agree with the whole keep the eyes while Blood of the Dragon is not up. you just can't build more (which you wouldn't be able to regardless cuz you need Blood of the Dragon to be up to get Dive Ready) or i don't know... make buff timers freeze when bosses go into a cutscene attack?

So I finally catched up on gear and beat both Ex Primals.

My conclusion is that I'm almost sure I'm jumping ship over to SAM.

As many people have said, Eye stacks are a horrible mechanic. DRG not only is bottom of the barrel in terms of melee DPS, but also requires MUCH more effort to play due to the extreme clunkiness of LOTD. LOTD is absurdly weak for the effort and time it takes to activate, essentially 1:20s to only get a 960 potency within a 20+s window IF you get the 3 Nastronds off.

Mechanics may demand you delay things here and there, effectively gimping you even further. The fact the Eye gauge only goes back to 4 make it so you can't use Jump or SD when you already have 4 eyes and GK is on 15+s cooldown due to the fact you'll waste Mirage Dive. Don't even get me started on dying. Back in 3.X the only thing you lost was potentially a Geirskogul. Here? Enjoy losing 3 eye stacks and building them all over again from the start. Another 1m+ to get to your "burst" phase. You can say "just git gud and not die then", but that's not how things work when you're progressing an encounter. It just feels bad and makes you cringe at building all those eyes up all over again, seeing as DRG has no way of fast tracking Eye gain.

Another issue: phase changes. Oh my god phase changes. On fights like Susanoo it's barely possible to keep BOTD by using the cooldown right when it's about to fall off because the animations are short, but on Lakshimi (whose animation's lenght is more in line with how boss's ultimates are), it's impossible no matter what you do. You are there lamenting losing the Eye stacks you worked so hard to gain, and on the other side you have Monks building Chakras and Samurais using Meditation to get loads of Kenki, essentially getting rewarded for downtime. It's just flawed design.

So yeah. DRG was very punishing in the 3.X series, but it was something you could easily work around by analyzing the encounter and your Geirskogul usage. Now BOTD is essentially free, but your actual damage is gated behind a system that is even worse and doesn't feel good in practice.

LoTD should always start with 30 seco ds. I HATE when I have 4 eyes and Geirskogul is ready but I have 17 seconds on BoTD and I have to delay activation by a full rotation in order to get the full ~25seconds necessary for 3 Nastronds.

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The fact the Eye gauge only goes back to 4 make it so you can't use Jump or SD when you already have 4 eyes and GK is on 15+s cooldown due to the fact you'll waste Mirage Dive. Don't even get me started on dying. Back in 3.X the only thing you lost was potentially a Geirskogul. Here? Enjoy losing 3 eye stacks and building them all over again from the start. Another 1m+ to get to your "burst" phase. You can say "just git gud and not die then", but that's not how things work when you're progressing an encounter. It just feels bad and makes you cringe at building all those eyes up all over again, seeing as DRG has no way of fast tracking Eye gain.

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Additionally this encourages me to play more aggressively, especially in dungeons. I'm sprinting ahead of the tank and pulling just so I don't lose my eyes, or to get off my last Nastrond (I play in a static so the tank is frustrated by understands and simply flashes off of me--but still). Losing eyes/LoTD timer feels bad man.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

LoTD should always start with 30 seco ds.

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Your BotD should be always on 30s, a nifty trick is if you are under 12 seconds before your refresh hit is to use BotD and it will push you right to 15 and then to 25. Allowing you to Geirskogul to Nastrond. That said, your Geirskogul should be lined up with your LotD activation.

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Originally Posted by Estelle9lives

Another issue: phase changes. Oh my god phase changes. On fights like Susanoo it's barely possible to keep BOTD by using the cooldown right when it's about to fall off because the animations are short, but on Lakshimi (whose animation's lenght is more in line with how boss's ultimates are), it's impossible no matter what you do. You are there lamenting losing the Eye stacks you worked so hard to gain, and on the other side you have Monks building Chakras and Samurais using Meditation to get loads of Kenki, essentially getting rewarded for downtime. It's just flawed design.

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For Lakshmi phase change you should be able to use 1 Nastrond before she leaves the battlefield for the adds phase, and then 5 Nastronds in the add phase with a slow group. With a fast group you are looking at 2 or 3 Nastronds in add phase. And you should come out without any eye stacks.
For Susano you can choose to either, hold your second Geirskogul and use 2 Nastronds under BfB on susano or not delay your geirskogul and get that Geirskogul on susano, waste some eyes and use 2 Nastronds on the sword phase. You will build up 3-4 eye stacks in the sword phase so you can use a full 30 seconds Nastrond opener.

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Originally Posted by Schan

I'm just going to add that there are fat robots in a certain dungeon... i think it's the level 67 one where if i use Dragon Sight on the tank I literally can't dps the back of this robot because it is THAT fat and the tether range is that short, which means I am forced to chose to keep Dragon Sight buff or get punished for missing positionals. SE is literally forcing us into a lose-lose situation. Lose personal dps or lose utility.
Also I keep being paired with ranged DPS in dungeons. Not only they are always at the far back of the field (clearly the Vault has not taught them anything) but the few times they get close, they seem to freak out with the tether and just keep running way. (I may have stopped DPSing to chase a Bard one time while Dragon Sight was up. It was too funny. I'm sorry Bard.)

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Make a macro to use after you say hello in dungeons if you have a ranged codps. "<4(default number for dps)> mind getting close in aoe's and bosses? I need it for a buff to both of us. It will tether you in a red scaley chain, so don't worry, just keep in mind that it's really short."
If they come up with a snarky remark about "Chill out mister elitist, this is not savage lul", just be snarky right back with "I hope you like 30 minutes long dungeons".
Easy solutions for everyday problems. Remember to add a "please" somewhere there.

As a relatively new player, this is quite disheartening. What are SE like in terms of balance passes?

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Originally Posted by Erys

For Lakshmi...
For Susano ...

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That's what I do on Susanoo. He phases right when I'm about to enter the first LOTD, so I just get 2 Nastronds on the sword and build eyes there, using BOTD to refresh to 15 when it hits 1s as he comes back. That said it doesn't feel rewarding due to how low the sword DPS check is.

I only did Lakshimi with my static, so getting Nastronds there was a pain and again unrewarding due to how fast those adds were dying.

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Originally Posted by Erys

For Lakshmi phase change you should be able to use 1 Nastrond before she leaves the battlefield for the adds phase, and then 5 Nastronds in the add phase with a slow group. With a fast group you are looking at 2 or 3 Nastronds in add phase. And you should come out without any eye stacks.
For Susano you can choose to either, hold your second Geirskogul and use 2 Nastronds under BfB on susano or not delay your geirskogul and get that Geirskogul on susano, waste some eyes and use 2 Nastronds on the sword phase. You will build up 3-4 eye stacks in the sword phase so you can use a full 30 seconds Nastrond opener.

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That doesn't sound optimal to me. I get 6 nastronds pre adds phase (2 full LotD) and I get a LotD activation during adds phase by holding GSK (1-3 nastronds group depending)

With your tactic you will most certainly lose dps due to not being able to nastrond a target with consistent piercing debuff or you lose a lot of nastronds trying to get 5 in the adds phase since this is the part where dps can change the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Estelle9lives

Snip

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Then you did all you could do and pulled your weight accordingly. Just ask for the sensible thing, higher potencies and extra jump buffs under LotD xP
And yeah when you get a fast group in lakshmi the adds are moot. I had one and could only get away with 3 nastronds in add phase. 2 from the previous LotD and 1 from the LotD I activated in there.

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

That doesn't sound optimal to me. I get 6 nastronds pre adds phase (2 full LotD) and I get a LotD activation during adds phase by holding GSK (1-3 nastronds group depending)

With your tactic you will most certainly lose dps due to not being able to nastrond a target with consistent piercing debuff or you lose a lot of nastronds trying to get 5 in the adds phase since this is the part where dps can change the outcome.

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You probably are right I just have really bad memory. I just know that I come in add phase after using a Nastrond and 2 nastronds from that same LotD in said add phase.
How many geirskoguls are you holding to pull the 6 nastronds in p1?

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Originally Posted by Estelle9lives

That's what I do on Susanoo. He phases right when I'm about to enter the first LOTD, so I just get 2 Nastronds on the sword and build eyes there, using BOTD to refresh to 15 when it hits 1s as he comes back. That said it doesn't feel rewarding due to how low the sword DPS check is.

I only did Lakshimi with my static, so getting Nastronds there was a pain and again unrewarding due to how fast those adds were dying.

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For susano, that all depends on how early your first GSK is. Since he always transitions at 1:32 you can get 2 nastronds before he jumps, the 2nd one being just before he goes invulnerable.