30 Minute Lockout for Leaving Roulette's isn't Working as Intended.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yet people still leave it en masse because they don't care about the Xp and only want the lvl 60 tome bonus. Pretty effective change.

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And then you just add more tomes to it and you fix that problem. They already have a system for this. It's the poetic / eso bonus system. They only need to tweak it to apply to certain roulette duties.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Wrong. The first room of Dzemael was the most spammed Xp place, leading to to people starting the dungeon in their roulette, and seeing 3 other people leaving right before the first boss. Great mentality here.

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My point was that people gravitate towards low effort, high time efficiency leveling content. Is that point wrong? No. You made the comment that AV has good EXP returns as if that discredits that notion when the premise of that statement was just false.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

You're still taking it backwards. You try to justify people being jerks because the game is not rewarding enough, but it's the exact purpose of the roulette. The bonus is right that, a bonus. Why do you get a bonus ? Because you accept the random nature of the roulette. And now, you're telling me that you should be rewarded for that random part on top of...being rewarded for the random part. And I'm pretty sure even if the reward were increased, people would still complain about how much time it takes to complete a Duty, or to cap their tomes...seriously, stop with that fast-food mentality.

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They aren't being jerks. You are just interpreting it as such. To me, they are just people who want to farm tomes quickly and easily. Who can genuinely fault them for that? We all would like that. The statement don't hate the player, hate the game applies here. It's an imbalanced system with loopholes that allow abuse. Don't punish the players because your system is flawed. Fix the system through a positive and productive change.

You're the one taking it backwards by adding more layers of punishment that inevitably have collateral damage.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Then people would complain that they have nothing to do...or complain that Esos should not be capped, or complain about how you still need to buy 40 items with Esos for the Anima or complain how each hyper Anima item costs 1800 esos...or complain about how you should be able to have that reward when going unsynced...or how AV is "tooo haaaard", or how all the parties they end in are bad because their DPS are not perfectly optimal...or just bail out of every other dungeon, leaving those who need to clear them in the dust.

I really thought you've experienced this community enough to understand that the more you give people, the more they'll want...

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Irrelevant rambling. The concept of balance is the basis of the adjustments. Just look at Pharos Sirius HM / Saint Arboretum vs. Neverreap / Fractal. The former is a longer run but balances that through a larger tomestone reward and no ilevel sync. The latter is a faster dungeon but gives less tomestones. There is a balance there that Aetherial Chemical Research Facility falls well outside of. People aren't asking for more. They are apparently perfectly fine with certain rewards in the roulette -- so perfectly fine that they don't mind waiting out the penalty for them.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

My point was that people gravitate towards low effort, high time efficiency leveling content.

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Yes, people gravitates towards the least effort, but the more you ease everything, the more they ask for an easier way. That'exactly why the roulette was created, to ease tome farming. And people still complain...

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Originally Posted by Brian_

They aren't being jerks. You are just interpreting it as such. To me, they are just people who want to farm tomes quickly and easily.

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So what ? We should feel sorry for those who don't want to finish a dungeon and just leave you there because the last part is not Xp efficient ? We should feel sorry for those who leave a 24-man raid when a boss doesn't drop the one thing they want or they just lose the roll ?
And what should we say to those penalized by that ? "Deal with it" ?

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Originally Posted by Brian_

You're the one taking it backwards by adding more layers of punishment that inevitably have collateral damage.

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What collateral damage ? If you take a penalty when purposely withdrawing or staying AFK for so long that the duty automatically kicks you out, how can you end up being a "collateral" damage ?

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Originally Posted by Brian_

They are apparently perfectly fine with certain rewards in the roulette -- so perfectly fine that they don't mind waiting out the penalty for them.

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Of course they don't, since it costs them nothing apart from a little slap on the wrist. It's like in real life, If all you risk by breaking a rule is "Oh, that's not nice", then you'll just break it all the time.

Just see any content that requires a huge amount of gils...you'll see dozens of topics saying that anything that costs gils just promotes gil buying. Some people are perfectly fine with buying gils instead of playing the game for a longterm goal...and then they complain that they have no longterm goal...

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Of course they don't, since it costs them nothing apart from a little slap on the wrist.

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Side note: The same applies for rewards as well. Rewards only function as incentive if people care about the rewards. If a reward isn't appealing and conversely, if a punishment isn't actually hurting, it's inconsequential.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Side note: The same applies for rewards as well. Rewards only function as incentive if people care about the rewards. If a reward isn't appealing and conversely, if a punishment isn't actually hurting, it's inconsequential.

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Right, but the reward is not given to you "for free".
Why should a lvl16 dungeon reward you with tokens for ilvl 200 or ilvl 230 items ? The tradeoff is, again, accepting the random nature of the roulette.
If you don't think the reward is enough for the random part, then stop queuing for a roulette.

Here you have people who want the reward but don't want the randomness...and in so, screwing other people...and being offended when you scold them for that.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Honestly, if they make the 'punishement' for leaving more harsh than it is like some of you suggest.. Don't be surprised if DF becomes a ghost town. Queue times will sky rocket and the only people getting anything done will be those in large FC's who can fill a full party. Then what will you cry for? : "Harsh penalties for premades since I can't get through this dungeon! It's not fair that I have to wait hours for it to fill, and they get to go through so quickly.. they should only get 1/4th the reward!"

Serously, get over yourselves.

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Bear in mind, that no matter how harsh the penalties are, they will almost never be applied unless you're rude, inconsiderate, and intolerant. Basically, behave like a decent human being, and it doesn't matter how sky-high the punishments get; they will rarely, if ever affect you. The punishments could be a whole lot harsher than they are now, and the vast bulk of the player base would never even notice. The folks who WOULD notice, are the ones who abuse the current loopholes in the system to get what they want more easily. Don't be one of those people.

Don't bail on dungeons just because you don't like the dungeon.
If your other party members are derpy, help them through it. Teach them.
Be polite and considerate. If your party members are not, don't give them the satisfaction of rising to their bait.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Be polite and considerate. If your party members are not, don't give them the satisfaction of rising to their bait.

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I'm pretty sure we'll see a request to earn gils for each commandation received one day, because people are only nice if they're rewarded accordingly for this :p

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I wish people would understand that most of the time, people don't run from the duty but from other people.

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Yeah, right. Explain why the vast majority of the time I see people bail from a duty it's before the DUTY COMMENCED even appears on the screen, then?

Depending on the dungeon or people in the group there will be times where no reward or punishment will stop people from leaving. All it will do is make more people go in pre-made. This seems like anything it is meant to punish tanks and healers since they have fast que times. Because no one really bats a eye to kick a dps or if they leave people won't care.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

snip.

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I seriously wish I could be an naive as you. To see the world and everything in it with completely innocence must be a mutant power. Now let's talk about your points:

Vast bulk would never notice, huh? I highly doubt that. They'd notice (like I said) that DF queue times were much longer, and when they did get into a dungeon see point 1 bellow:

1: I'd sooner have someone bail because they don't like the dungeon at the beginning than slow it down even more by just willfully derping along. People being forced into doing something they don't like will put forth the bare minimum of effort. Making that dungeon go even slower.

2: I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There are countless amounts of resources that can be found not only on these forums alone, but with a simple google search for people to learn for themselves. I am not going to waste my time trying to 'teach' someone is who to lazy to do their own research. (Before you ask, no I'm not a mentor.)

3: I'm one of those people who tends to be silent through a dungeon run. I'm not there to chit chat, as my only reason for being in any given dungeon is to get through quickly and efficiently. If someone is being rude, talking more than healing/dps'ing/tank cooldowns, I will vote kick them. They are impeding the run. If that fails to go through, I will leave on my own. I refuse to spend 40 minutes in a dungeon that can be run in 20, just because someone else is dragging their feet and being a chatty cathy.

Think about things realistically, instead of rainbow happy flowers. People are selfish, and only in it for themselves. Take away their reward for 'helping' someone else or punishing them harshly for not helping, and they will completely avoid the situation in the future, and find other ways to get around it.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

I refuse to spend 40 minutes in a dungeon that can be run in 20, just because someone else is dragging their feet and being a chatty cathy.

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So you refuse to wait 40 minutes to get your roulette reward, but you'll leave the dungeon after 10 minutes, wait 30 minutes because of the lock-out before reentering maybe another dungeon that you'll leave 10 minutes later because people aren't good enough for you, for another 30 minutes lock-out ?
Real efficient, yes.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Think about things realistically, instead of rainbow happy flowers. People are selfish, and only in it for themselves. Take away their reward for 'helping' someone else or punishing them harshly for not helping, and they will completely avoid the situation in the future, and find other ways to get around it.

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Yeah, I think about it realistically. Either you end in a dungeon that does not please you and leave, so others will have to wait for someone to join in progress, hoping they won't leave right away, or you'll just stop queuing for the roulette, denying your own reward and giving more room for those who will stay whatever duty they end up in.

If those who feel the urge to leave on a whim suddenly decide to stop doing roulettes, we'll still do them at the same pace. Instead of waiting for a replacement inside, we'll wait for the Duty Finder to create a group outside. And at least, we'll be able to do something while we wait.

So, please, be my guest.