Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

Do you have any proof of this experiment...at all?

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Originally Posted by Yenn

An an experiment, I've put almost 13 hours into trying to kill Garuda EX on my tank alt over the past two weeks. One almost kill and no success.
All of the groups were party finders and required i80+. The encounter is intended for i65.

How can anyone imply that this is okay?

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What do you mean? Garuda ex is supposed to be extremely hard, doing it with randoms is going to be tough, the ilvl requirement isn't really a strict line that means that the content is easily doable at that level, it is just meant to be a guideline that says "you really can't beat this with lower ilvl than this", but it doesn't mean it is strictly intended for that level. Maybe you just had a bad luck? I cleared garuda ex within 20 runs.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

You're all missing the point, which is that giving out free loot to bad players makes it impossible to identify skilled players, as you can in other games.

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It's probably not that they're missing the point, so much as that these are the guys who this thread is talking about. Anyone who would make the argument that someone getting the same reward as you after putting in less than a fraction of the work as you isn't a bad thing is obviously not the guy putting in the work. Plain fact is, this game is flawed from the ground up, giving people fates as an easy way to jump to 50 without having to do any real practice for their role, then allowing them to jump straight into a dungeon which drops i80 gear while letting you farm for i70 gear. Then of course you have coil t2 which has been made infinitely easier by the enrage method, which I have had the "pleasure" of trying and, having done t2 the way that actually requires some mental capacity since coil was released, can honestly say that t2 enrage method is complete bull and caters to the most severely impaired players.

The whole arguement I keep seeing people make about how you should "just worry about yourself" and "the way others play doesn't affect you" are, yet again, clearly the people the OP was talking about. You can make the arguement all you want that other people don't affect you, but lets see you try to do titan ex with a pug who's wearing i90 gear but still can't hold aggro or, as I've had the chance to witness, tanks Garuda hard while standing in two twisters. Not one, he actually pulled her to the point where two of the twisters were overlapping and tried to tank her there despite being told over and over to get out of the aoes. He died, then we all died, and people still want to tell me that "the way they play doesn't affect you".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yenn

An an experiment, I've put almost 13 hours into trying to kill Garuda EX on my tank alt over the past two weeks. One almost kill and no success.
All of the groups were party finders and required i80+. The encounter is intended for i65.

How can anyone imply that this is okay?

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1. The encounter is not intended for 8x i65. That is simply the item level requirement to enter the instance.

2. One thing all of your failed attempts has in common is you.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

An an experiment, I've put almost 13 hours into trying to kill Garuda EX on my tank alt over the past two weeks. One almost kill and no success.
All of the groups were party finders and required i80+. The encounter is intended for i65.

How can anyone imply that this is okay?

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Garuda

Garuda Hard Mode

Garuda Extreme Mode <--

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

2. One thing all of your failed attempts has in common is you.

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This is pretty funny but it's probably spot on. There's NOTHING worse than a morale leech on the team.

My favorite runs are the ones where we may start off shaky but gradually end up winning the fight. And nothing kills that high faster than some guy who complains, whines and forces us to get new members after a Ragequit.

Haha, what will Yenn say when the big Twintania sale begins at 2.2 to carry all paying so-called mediocre player through T5 :D

Srsly, I understand what you're talking about, but the ranting about things which won't change is just dumb (FF is designed for casuals). You have a friend list, Linkshells and a FC, there you can put people who are good. If enough are online and are in the mood for EX primals you have your easy kill, end of story. If you join PUGs expect the worst, end of story.
If I don't find people for my stuff to do and if I'm not in the mood for learning wipe-runs I simply play another game in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

1. The encounter is not intended for 8x i65. That is simply the item level requirement to enter the instance.

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I still maintain that the encounter is doable with a full party of ilvl 65. Not easy, by any means, but doable.

"Not easy" is a impossible barrier for pugs and DF groups, so what is the point of bringing it up and pretending that the people asking for higher are unreasonable. It's not easy to run a marathon but I'm not going to go to McDonald's and ask some random customers to do it.

Maybe if people as a whole were better at their jobs people wouldn't feel the need to enforce high ilevel caps, which comes back to the topic of this thread.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

"Not easy" is a impossible barrier for pugs and DF groups, so what is the point of bringing it up and pretending that the people asking for higher are unreasonable. It's not easy to run a marathon but I'm not going to go to McDonald's and ask some random customers to do it.

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Don't get me wrong. I don't think the people asking for higher as a precaution are being unreasonable. PF and DF are luck of the draw, and there's way more bad out there than good. But to say that the fight is straight up impossible at the minimum level is something I take issue with.