Dark Knight Megathread

Which mean bloodweapon only give 1800 mp?

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Originally Posted by The_User

Which mean bloodweapon only give 1800 mp?

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In Endwalker it is 600mp per hit of BW and 200mp per hit of bloodspiller with delirium, 3 stack of bloodspiller under delirium, and 5 stack of BW, each stack of bloodspiller with delirium effect grant 200MP and each stack of BW give 600MP per hit, so 3 x 200 and 5 x 600. so 3600MP each minutes.
Now, the MP value gain per hit is exactly the same, but we have 3 stack of BW instead of 5, and scarlet delirium combo dont change anything of the MP Gain value, so we still lost 1200 MP per minutes, we gain only 2400MP.

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Originally Posted by EmsaVadenn

Sorry but even with the new scarlet delirum combo (I unlocked it), the mp gain is exactly the same, so we still lost 1200Mp minutes with the lost of 2 stack of BW, its very urgent to fix that !

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Man what an upgrade, stealth remove something from a buff to re-add it as additional text on the combo itself

Tell your friend to buy dawntrail! tell them to buy a lot of se'smerchandise!!
They did this to you they need to be reward!!!!!

Please increase the MP gained from Blood Weapon stacks, to like 1000 MP or increase the stacks back to 5. Its not nice to use less Edge/Flood and less TBN.
Speaking of potencies, maybe increase the damage on the Delirium combo by 50 on each attack or perhaps increase Disesteem potency to 900 or 1000? The attack feels like it should do more damage, and as far as I saw numbers being calculated, DRK is last in damage by a big margin ( almost 10% ) behind GNB/PLD.

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Originally Posted by JPMJ

攻撃アビリティの多さとそれぞれの威力の高さに起因するバースト力が売りですが、裏を返せばそこに依存しすぎていると感じます。
以前の様にシナジーに合わせればぶっちぎりの火力とかであればまだ納得できますが、あってようやく他のタンクと同等の火力といった状態ですので、それを改善する意味でもご検討をお願いいたします。
(以前の様な火力差にして欲しいとかではなく、火力バランスは横並びのままシナジーへの依存度を下げて欲しいです)

私個人としては自身で攻撃している感や大剣らしい重い一撃の技が欲しい為、影身具現の威力を下げてディセスティームやトアクリーバーといった大技の威力を1000〜1200程度に上げていただきたいです。

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Coincidentally, jp player have been asked for the same thing. He want disesteem and torcleaver to deal more damage.

Lion heart, double down,war's primals attack with no mercy/storm eye can go up to at least 1400 potency by the way.

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Originally Posted by The_User

Coincidentally, jp player have been asked for the same thing. He want disesteem and torcleaver to deal more damage.

Lion heart, double down,war's primals attack with no mercy/storm eye can go up to at least 1400 potency by the way.

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And I also very want the return of abyssal drain available in mono target with the delete of the share CD with carve & spit :3
Have some spell only for dungeon / 3 target is Zzzzz, its better to have multi function on one spell, useful on mono target AND multi target at the same time is better in my opinion

Easier way to solve this could be reduce blood weapon and delirium recast time to 30s and replace mp restore effect of Carve and spit with increase potency of next weaponskill by 50%. Remove the shared recast time with abyssal drain would be nice too.

I think averaging DPS among tanks is a good thing.
But only DRK is limiting PT options due to job mechanics. (Without synergy, it has been adjusted to not produce the same level of DPS as other tanks.)
I think reworking is the best option considering the ease of future adjustments, but if the current job mechanics are to continue, I would like to see the strengths of the DRK strengthened by increasing the potency of finishing blows such as disesteem and toa cleaver.

I think base potencies need to increase. Not disesteem and toa cleaver. Unless you guarantee them to direct critical hit you are subject to the same issues GNB has with double down and lion heart.

The big issue is more work and you have less sustain than other tanks. You have less damage than other tanks outside of burst. And the lower mp regen with the change of blood weapon being combined with delirium feels bad. Almost as if they rushed updating the job. The gap closer looks cool but feels bad to use due to how clunky it feels.

Dawntrail DRK feels so slow and boring to play outside of the 2 min burst. Wished they lowered all of DRK's offensive CD so that the job didn't feel so slow to play. I'd take a damage cut if the job was made to feel faster with the lower CD, to make the 123 combo not feel so boring. Not even the occasional Edge or Bloodspiller breaks that monotony until your burst window comes up and losing Plunge really makes that 1 min burst feel hollow.

Lower recast time of blood weapon, delirium or abyssal drain-carve and spit? If it is the latter it might not help much. However if bloodweapon and delirium grant haste and have the recast time reduce to 30s(as well as increase weaponskill attack range to 5y) it would be a game changer. Carve and split could have mp restore effect changes to increase next weaponskill potency or something else to compensate for additional 600 mp bw/deli generated more than the original.

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

Please increase the MP gained from Blood Weapon stacks, to like 1000 MP or increase the stacks back to 5. Its not nice to use less Edge/Flood and less TBN.
Speaking of potencies, maybe increase the damage on the Delirium combo by 50 on each attack or perhaps increase Disesteem potency to 900 or 1000? The attack feels like it should do more damage, and as far as I saw numbers being calculated, DRK is last in damage by a big margin ( almost 10% ) behind GNB/PLD.

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TBN feels very punishing right now with reduced MP, it feels like an oversight

So after actually playing with the changes to DRK. I was trying to give it benefit of the doubt but....I hate it.

Plunge change I can stomach, but both the Blood Weapon and Living Shadow are straight up downgrades to the class made for no reason. Living Shadow lost its only tie to the rest of the kit that was its cost, so now it's just empty button to press. Blood Weapon losing 2 stacks means our mana economy is worse, both making the problem of everything outside of 2 minutes being non-rotation worse, and it makes TBN feel worse to press, which just...awful.
And all we got in return is this lousy GCD. Thanks, I hate it.

Give BW its 2 stacks back, increase the MP gain on the 3 stacks it has, hell, reduce CD on Delirium to 40 seconds....anything. The other tanks are at worst the same as they were before, or slightly better, only DRK just got...worse.

Additional thought to my previous post - with the big problem of DRK being everything outside of 2 minutes being unengaging, what we needed was more MP over time, not less. We're basically capped on what we can spend in two minutes, so we need overflow so we can do more outside of burst. As is, the changes drain MP from the rest of the rotation to concentrate into two minutes, meaning we do even more 1-2-3 only spam now.

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Originally Posted by Vallerie

Additional thought to my previous post - with the big problem of DRK being everything outside of 2 minutes being unengaging, what we needed was more MP over time, not less. We're basically capped on what we can spend in two minutes, so we need overflow so we can do more outside of burst. As is, the changes drain MP from the rest of the rotation to concentrate into two minutes, meaning we do even more 1-2-3 only spam now.

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I think it would have been cool if DRK stayed at 3600 MP from Delirium pre 96 and got even more from Scarlet Deliirum.

Do you realize that the only two things you could spend with more mp are more edge and tbn?

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Originally Posted by The_User

Do you realize that the only two thing could spend with more mp are more edge and tbn?

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Enjoy your slow apm then i guess.

Sure if you would rather content with just more mp instead of ask for a real rework.

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Originally Posted by The_User

Do you realize that the only two things you could spend with more mp are more edge and tbn?

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And? We have 5 edges under burst one way or another. The point I was making is that I would like to press Edge more outside of the burst. The 2400 MP we lost isn't gone from 2min, we push it from the rest of the rotation back into it. Which means we can now press Edge/TBN less elsewhere. That's the whole point. Edge is one of the most satisfying abilities in the game to me, and I would like to press it more. It's only beat by TBN, and TBN followed by Edge.

I mean yeah, I would love to have more stuff to do with MP, but like, I'm looking to have a reasonable request here for the savage tuning patch. Anything else is minor rework level adjustment which they aren't going to be doing anytime soon.
(Plus I actually liked ShB/EW DRK, I wanted them to do a bit more with it and instead we got less for some reason)

Ah another shadowbringer style enjoyer. Nevermind.

I wouldn't mind a rework, I just don't want Dark Arts back. I hated the Dark Arts animation.

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Originally Posted by The_User

Do you realize that the only two things you could spend with more mp are more edge and tbn?

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I don't think Abyssal Drain GCD and Dark Arts are coming back.

But I dont hate Edge of Shadow, and I think its functionally very similar to using DA to buff a GCD.

And we wonder why it kept getting worse when you grew accustomed to the low standard and you would rather ask for low standard adjustment and be content with it. More please we need more people like this so dev could officially always give us a low standard drk gameplay.

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Originally Posted by The_User

And we wonder why it kept getting worse when you grew accustomed to the low standard and you would rather ask for low standard adjustment and be content with it. More please we need more people like this so dev could officially always give us a low standard drk gameplay.

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It doesn't really matter what you ask for, the XIV dev team ignores feedback from this forum, even on the JP side.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

It doesn't really matter what you ask for, the XIV dev team ignores feedback from this forum, even on the JP side.

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The only feedback they care about comes from streamers.

Nope we got 5 stacks bw because player request. We got LD (rushed rework) because player request. We also got this delirium change because people request it. Don't try to shift the responsibility.

DRK is suffering from WAR success

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Originally Posted by Tunda

DRK is suffering from WAR success

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drk just suffering from lack of vision. WAR had a clear vision from the start and instead of constantly reworking they just built upon, and tweaked things to stay within that. DRK on the other hand has about as much reworks as SMN. Idk how they did it but they made a 3-part combo in delirium feel less impactful than WAR FC spam. There's something to the direction of DRK and I don't like it. I think this perfectly summarize the duality of DRK players;

3.0-4.0 DRK = Berserk 1998
5.0-6.0 DRK = Berserk 2016

I would say DRK in DT is like berserk but they removed plunge. If only they could make enhanced unmend proc plunge so you have a damaging gap closer after using a ranged attack but sadly I don't think such a thing can be implemented in game.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought they crapped the bed on DRK. I was told "you shouldn't drop a class that you put time into."
My response to that is, "yeah, however, not if the game and devs are actively working against you."
Some may not agree with me, but I loved doing DRK opener in EW. The adrenaline of just doing like a 30 hit combo felt great to me.
Seeing as how I was more actively involved (looking at you new delirium) in pulling it off, "well its just one button." who cares, I pressed it, and the game didn't automatically do it for me.
We have become an even worst version of WAR nao.

Missing plunge :c

The new gap closer does no damage, so it's not nearly as useful, plus plunge reminded me of Guts and wasn't that the point??

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

The only feedback they care about comes from streamers.

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but only for some jobs.
coughWARcough

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Originally Posted by The_User

We also got this delirium change because people request it. Don't try to shift the responsibility.

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People also requested to reduce Blood Weapon to a (more impactful) 40s CD so BW and Del weren't just Bloodlirium Part 1 and Bloodlirium Part 2...

It seems a bit odd to assign blame based on a group's "If nothing else..." especially when that fallback option was paired with more MP generation to make up for its APM loss.

I'll start with the good they added.

-I think Disesteem is alright. Not the best addition but certainly not the worst
-I think the additional effects to Shadow wall is good, but the two minute cooldown makes it unreliable.
-I love the Delirium combo, but it's a stand in for all that was lost this expansion.

Now for the problems
-Combining blood weapon and delirium was a terrible move for the job. Blood weapon was used often as resource management. When it had 5 stacks you could effectively gain another TBN or Edge/Flood of Shadow to use AT ANY TIME with extra (total mp regeneration was 4200 if using basic combo). Delirium was a dps button that allowed for 5 blood spillers with full gauge (was up to 7 in ShB) now it's only 3 with the new combo adding a grand total of 600 potency at level 96 (20 potency more than the single bloodspiller we lost) and now we don't have the mana regeneration on top of that.

-Plunge. Where do I begin? I didn't think something so simple would have such an impact on my rotation or how the job felt to play. I lost 300 potency in the burst, and then I lost the ability to weave 150 potency throughout the fight. The animation just feels bad. I can't explain it, but after playing it as my main for ShB and Endwalker, it just doesn't feel right without it.

-There is still no change to dark mind/dark missionary. There is no real indicator as to what is or isn't magic damage so they sit as a dead buttons if they are used at all.

Now for the changes
-Turn Dark mind and dark missionary into full mitigations or make it so that dark mind gives us a window for mana regeneration similar to what blood weapon did before.

-Separate blood weapon from delirium and put both to five stack with Delirium activating the new combo ( I'll take delirium going to 3 stacks like it is now. I just want the mana regeneration back).

-Make abyssal drain cure for more potency with a lower cooldown.

-The Blackest Knight, once hailed as the best tank mitigation has really fallen off. Add some life gain to it, please, or mana regeneration and 20% mitigation on top of the shield and remove oblation. Keep the same cooldown time as it is tied to a resource that is used for dps as well as defense. All the other tanks have this with their signature cooldown. Why not us?

I've cleared the first extreme and peeked into the second, my general findings of the DRK changes is the job is actually harder now, which I feel is unintentional.
That 1200 mp per minute we lost is actually really important, as with only 3 mp spenders between burst windows, it indirectly makes Darkside Management a real thing, which inturn means TBN is even more punishing if it doesn't break.

And whats worse is post Burst window, I'm finding it takes significantly longer to return to 3k MP for TBN usage. This bit feels unintentional.

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Originally Posted by Drayman1985

-The Blackest Knight, once hailed as the best tank mitigation has really fallen off. Add some life gain to it, please, or mana regeneration and 20% mitigation on top of the shield and remove oblation. Keep the same cooldown time as it is tied to a resource that is used for dps as well as defense. All the other tanks have this with their signature cooldown. Why not us?

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Problem is that adding more to TBN itself without you having control over whether or not you add it in the moment has high potential to be counterproductive, especially in anything below savage.
Add mit? Well now TBN is harder to break and get a refund on, meaning you can only use it on bigger hits, effectively taking more damage from smaller ones.
Add healing at the end or on use? If the hit is small enough, or you've thrown on enough mit, there is a high chance the healing will be wasted.
Keeping the refund to equal to cost is also good, because it keeps it as mitigation focused, if you make refund greater, it pushes you to burn TBN just to get extra potency.

And I'm pretty sure devs are aware of this, which is why Oblation exists. It's a genuinely good solution to TBN, because you can choose whether or not to use it alongside TBN, bypassing the issue #1. Now, they could've/should've added more to Oblation, but it's a good button. Oblation good.
The other 'solutions' take the risk aspect away, either by giving you refund on the first hit instead of break, or simply turn it into free mit like the other tank mits, and idk about you, but I don't want that.

Why not just assign the person who design dark knight pvp to dark knight pve

Pvp dark knight is very rewarding

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Originally Posted by Vallerie

So after actually playing with the changes to DRK. I was trying to give it benefit of the doubt but....I hate it.

Plunge change I can stomach, but both the Blood Weapon and Living Shadow are straight up downgrades to the class made for no reason. Living Shadow lost its only tie to the rest of the kit that was its cost, so now it's just empty button to press. Blood Weapon losing 2 stacks means our mana economy is worse, both making the problem of everything outside of 2 minutes being non-rotation worse, and it makes TBN feel worse to press, which just...awful.
And all we got in return is this lousy GCD. Thanks, I hate it.

Give BW its 2 stacks back, increase the MP gain on the 3 stacks it has, hell, reduce CD on Delirium to 40 seconds....anything. The other tanks are at worst the same as they were before, or slightly better, only DRK just got...worse.

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Yeah, Blood Weapon being tied to Bloodspiller is actually awful. Instead of getting the 600 mp from the normal 1-2-3 We instead have to do Bloodspiller because Blood weapon is now directly tied to our damage.
I'd be ok with it, if Delirium/Bloodweapon still allowed you to get 600 mp with Bloodspiller, and was 5 stacks. But honestly, It feel like this is a oversight from the devs. However, the 3 stack is probably because they don't want you doing Bloodspiller for too long.

Honestly, kind of disappointed with DRK, I just started leveling it but the loss of 3 oGCDs on a rotation that already had a barebone GCDs and oGCDs diversity hurts a lot.

All the GCDs are 1 2 3 and Bloodspiller.
oGCDs consist of spamming Edge of Shadow with a sprinkle of C&S, Delirium, Salted Earth and Shadowbringer.

It's not great, DRK needs more diversity GCD and oGCD wise. I don't think Disesteem will make it more fun.

Overall, I am generally "meh" with the changes to DRK and it's state in Dawntrail.

There are some changes that I sort of like, such as changing the Delirium Bloodspiller spam somewhat even if really it being mostly just a visual change. I also like the removal of damage from the gap-closer so that I can hold them for movement instead of having to burn them for damage, although I wish there was some compensation in the APM department to balance out no longer having them as OGCD attacks like maybe slightly higher MP gain rates so that you are doing a little more frequent Edges/Floods or something or perhaps a reduced recast time for Carve and Spit/ Abyssal Drain of 40s instead of 60s.

As for the cons, I feel like overall not much was added to the job with this expansion that changes up the feel or game-play that we have already been doing for the entirety of Endwalker. This is an issue I have overall with the evolution of the tank jobs with this expansion and I am really hoping that they do more with the content and fight design to counter-balance this by making tanks have to do more with the tools they already have to help keep things from quickly feeling stale.

In terms of the DRK specific issues that came with this expansion, while I stated that I liked the removal of damage from the gap-closer, it does then highlight and add to an already sore point for DRK of pointless and questionable traits that seem like nothing more than spreadsheet filler than actually impactful additions to the job. If you couldn't guess already, I am talking about the Enhanced Unmend trait. It was fairly pointless before but at least you could maybe squeeze out a smidge more dps under specific circumstances, but now with the removal of damage from the gap-closer it has essentially no point at all and is not worth the screenspace used to display its underwhelming description and should be removed and replaced with something that actually adds to the job.

Personally, I would like to see as a part of initial X.1 update job tweaks that tends to happen every expansion, some clean up of these questionable "filler" traits for DRK and using that to then provide game-play elements for the job that many have been asking for for a long time.
I created a bespoke post to my thoughts on cleaning up those "filler" traits here ...
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-filler-traits

Also, as others have voiced, I think one of the biggest problems with DRK in terms of game-play is that it is too reliant on the 120 second burst with it's ability usage, then only really having the new Delirium combo at 60s to break up the basic 1-2-3 rotation asides from the occasional Blood Spiller.
DRK needs a bit more going on in the times between these 60s and 120s intervals to break up the the basic combo rotation and this doesn't need to necessarily come from new abilities, it can come from tweaking the resource economy for DRK a bit such as increasing the rate of Blood gain to increase the frequency of Blood Spillers to mix up the 1-2-3 GCD combo. Bloodspiller potency can be adjusted as necessary for balance. Additionally, the recast times for some of the job's abilities can be tweaked so that they can be more frequent but still falling into that 120s burst cycle such as changing Carve and Spit / Abyssal Drain to be 40s recasts instead of 60s. Those are both just some off-the-cuff ideas around trying to mix up the 1-2-3 combo monotony on DRK.