SE Banning players with large amounts of gil?

So Im in a pretty large guild and we have been sending quite a bit of out gil to the Guild leader through the post to prepare for guild housing. Our Guild Leader then got a 72 hour ban for suspicious activity. Now it looks like all the Gil that was sent to him is going to be confiscated.

Fair? Guilty until proven innocent?
I can see quite a few disgruntled customers if this is happening to other guilds. I might take my ball and bat and go home. No you cant have my stuffs, I dontated it all to the guild, which was then taken.

...i'm still wondering how people make gil in this game.

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Originally Posted by Bluesteel

So Im in a pretty large guild and we have been sending quite a bit of out gil to the Guild leader through the post to prepare for guild housing. Our Guild Leader then got a 72 hour ban for suspicious activity. Now it looks like all the Gil that was sent to him is going to be confiscated.

Fair? Guilty until proven innocent?
I can see quite a few disgruntled customers if this is happening to other guilds. I might take my ball and bat and go home. No you cant have my stuffs, I dontated it all to the guild, which was then taken.

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What makes you say that? There are so many assumptions by people on this forum that have no clue whats really going to happen but panic anyhow.
If the gil was generated legitimately they are not going to confiscate it, but if people in your FC bought gil and gave it to the leader than maybe they will, but honestly who knows.

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Originally Posted by Bluesteel

So Im in a pretty large guild and we have been sending quite a bit of out gil to the Guild leader through the post to prepare for guild housing. Our Guild Leader then got a 72 hour ban for suspicious activity. Now it looks like all the Gil that was sent to him is going to be confiscated.

Fair? Guilty until proven innocent?
I can see quite a few disgruntled customers if this is happening to other guilds. I might take my ball and bat and go home. No you cant have my stuffs, I dontated it all to the guild, which was then taken.

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The gil is kept where? With the leader or in FC chest? How sure are you to trust that person never buy gil. Sorry to be mean but trust nobody you know in mmo games.

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Originally Posted by broren

...i'm still wondering how people make gil in this game.

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Crafting and Gathering. ^_^

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Crafting and Gathering. ^_^

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And how people do to buy those? That's the question, Gold alone from quest doesn't give you much, by the time i reached level 30, even with Gil pouch, i hardly have 45k.

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

And how people do to buy those? That's the question, Gold alone from quest doesn't give you much, by the time i reached level 30, even with Gil pouch, i hardly have 45k.

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Doing all quest to lvl 50 and sell all the pieces of tin bronze silver and gold will net you around 400k

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...s_and_illicit/

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

And how people do to buy those? That's the question, Gold alone from quest doesn't give you much, by the time i reached level 30, even with Gil pouch, i hardly have 45k.

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level 40 battleleves give you around 400 gold a pop at recommended +4 and considering they take about 5-10 minutes to do depending on the leve that's approximately 2400 gil give or take an hour

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

And how people do to buy those? That's the question, Gold alone from quest doesn't give you much, by the time i reached level 30, even with Gil pouch, i hardly have 45k.

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You can make gil by leveling crafting and gathering.

One method I do is selling dyes. Black and white dyes sell the fastest.
All you need to level any craft to 30 and botany or miner to 26.

In two to three hours you can gather 800 crystals and 400 pigments.
Probably take about three hours to craft them into dyes.
Slowly sell dyes into the market in stacks of 5 for about 400-500 gil each dye.

You gain:
2 levels of gathering
8 levels of crafting
Earn at least 160,000 gil.

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Originally Posted by Coraline

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...s_and_illicit/

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Except still seeing numerous Gil spammers in towns, still getting tells from other spammers... And still seeing the same bots teleporting around nodes that I reported weeks ago. Some of them now higher level than I am... Presumably just from mining crystals.

I don't know what these countermeasures were, but they did almost nothing about the underlying problem. Would assume that other NA servers are essentially the same... Or those who manage things on Lamia are slacking badly.

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Originally Posted by LordSideKicks

Doing all quest to lvl 50 and sell all the pieces of tin bronze silver and gold will net you around 400k

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Answer this. New worlds, where did 367.7 billion gil come from? 5000 players per server, 30 servers (new) each one does all the quests sells the coins and nets 400k each by level 50. That comes out to 60,000,000,000. so... where did the other 307.7 billion come from? You have to factor in teleport costs and repair costs into this too, unless that 400k has teleport and repair costs in it. Also factor in that not everyone is lvl50, nor are all those worlds full

Lets say you factor in people doing crafter and gathering quests, all of them. Not everyone does this tho, since it is not a requirement. How much do all of those give you, given that there aren't really nearly as many of those as there are side/story quests. Maybe another 30,000,000,000 if everyone levels all of them and does all quests. So where did the other 270.7 billion come from? Guildleves? Maybe that would put the total gil amount should all of those players do each and every one of their guildleves at another +20,000,000,000 gil

So that would leave 257.7 billion gil....

Maybe my math is off, but I don't think there should have been 367.7 billion gil there. Unless of course you have many alt accounts running the same thing to multiply the gil then put it all on one character, something those evil RMT excel at. /shrug

Guys, most of us high level crafters hit the top because the prices at the start of the game were low (For some crafts that is). while the market was still being established. Actually tons of people didn't craft, so the supply was high while demand wasn't as high. Too many people went DoM or DoW first because they saw crafting as secondary, while i saw crafting as my main job and main interest.

It took me less than 150k total to get my first craft to 50, i was able to by materials at practically break even costs of turning in leves. Not to mention people forget that you can actually contact the suppliers directly (gathering) and broker a bulk deal for a discount or establish a partnership that benefits both parties. I still remember when i started doing relics. Those wondering how i got 150k first? Pretty easy. I went DoW to 32 bard before i discover my love for crafting. I started with around 50-60k, easily hit 30 without spending more than 10-20k. Increased my profits by tons by selling dyes which i would harvest on my own as i also had my botanist up to par for the materials used. All in all i was lucky that i level my botanist during phase 4.

How most of us early crafters made bank early.
about 100-200k selling dyes for the first week. The prices per dye was 900-1000 gil (everyone wanted black soot dye and snow white)
Straight up Relics went for 100-150k
Crafting relics went for 50-70k
Spruce Lumber, Darksteel Nuggets, and similar items went for 30-40k
You DoM and DoW could have made bank if you bothered to noticed that the materia market was 100-200k per materia.

Where these things over priced? Who knew. We were testing the waters. People bought them, so all we can assume it was a fair price. Why? Because relics are considered pretty much your end game purchase and one of the most powerful weapons you can grind it into. If they were overpriced, then the people wouldn't have bought them. However tons have bought them at that price before the crafters who were able to do such things increased and started to drop the price in competition with each other. Now they are probably 5k profits, and what nots. However I have noticed some sketchy things with certain bloody parts that someone is doing. Not sure who it is, but they are price fixing some bloody weapon parts at 30-50k (esp the pld and sch/smn relics.)

As crafters we interact with hundreds of players each week. My first 3 days selling relics i probably interacted with 200 direct trades as i had no time to even list anything on the market as it was that busy.
Once direct comissions were calmer, we started to sell stuff on market. However it should be the marketboard's responsibility to know if the gil is tainted and not sell our item. It is like giving your item to Christies auction and then they sold it and got countierfeit currency and paid you in that. The middle man is responsible for that fiasco since we had no control over the transaction.

Would i ask all my customers to pledge that they haven never bought gil or don't anything illegal? Sure. I could do that and make screenshots. However how many if the actual gil buyers will tell me if they bought gil? They would lie out their mouths. I have a friend who never traded anyone, all he does is look at the market. find a lack of supplies in a certain market, and then makes bank on it while he buys low as an investment. Then when the item goes higher in price, short them for huge margins. He made 20mil flipping the market and was also hit with a suspension.

Anyone who can't really make money i don't believe is trying, knows anything about RL stock markets, or just too lazy and screams "if i can't make it from doing what i want to do, then the game is wrong." I hated farming in FFXI, but hey. Beehive chips was a reliable source of income in FFXI. In this game it was much easier when you sit infront of the market board for 1-2 hours each day to update the info in your head to know what is "hot that day" and then supply it and hope you are right. We can tell you how to make money, but if you are terrible or lazy, you will never make bank.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1360291

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Originally Posted by Matthew_John

1,000,000 gil! How could somebody make that much money! People with over 500k should be banned!!!!!

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I have 500k gil, I did not sell any carries or buy anything with RL money, I just had a LOT of time on my hand and did a lot of farming, heck, leveling mining to 50 got me 200k alone, combine that with the 200k I made leveling my PLD to 50 and additional money I made from mining....yes, I have a lot of time on my hands right now so, sue me!

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Unfortunately due to selfish cheats in games, like yourself it seems, genuine players do get caught in the cross-fire.

RMG exists here because people like yourself want shortcut's and don't wish to play on a level playing field.

It's actually easy to make gil if you know what to farm/craft and how to undercut.

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if its so easy then youd have no problems doing it all over again since your not one of those lazy shortcut players.

Services may crap on us once in a while but it happens in any game and irl.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Answer this. New worlds, where did 367.7 billion gil come from?

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You underestimate how much gil gatherers/crafters generate by a large margin. For starters the best way to level any craft is by turning in triple HQ items (i start at around 35-50) which generate 3-6k per leve. I can easily burn through 30-50 leves to level a craft, so 100k+ there. Almost every item dropped by a monster is used for some craft. I sometimes spiritbond gear by quicksynthing hundreds and hundreds of high level items and vendoring them for 80-110 gil each. Tens of thousands right there. Every time a gatherer swings a pick/axe or fishes that's new gil being generated.

You know how everyone levels? By spamming fates which give enough gil to offset repair and teleport costs (people leech off of other people teleporting in fate groups anyway).

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Originally Posted by Nenin

You underestimate how much gil gatherers/crafters generate by a large margin. For starters the best way to level any craft is by turning in triple HQ items (i start at around 35-50) which generate 3-6k per leve. I can easily burn through 30-50 leves to level a craft, so 100k+ there. Almost every item dropped by a monster is used for some craft. I sometimes spiritbond gear by quicksynthing hundreds and hundreds of high level items and vendoring them for 80-110 gil each. Tens of thousands right there. Every time a gatherer swings a pick/axe or fishes that's new gil being generated.

You know how everyone levels? By spamming fates which give enough gil to offset repair and teleport costs (people leech off of other people teleporting in fate groups anyway).

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I don't think that players with souls can put 367.7 bil into the economy in one month on new servers. Running dungeons before the fix did a number on enough peoples wallets, because not everyone crafts/gatherters and not every crafter does what you do. Fates give lolow gil too...

257.7B+ gil would have to be generated after all else is said in done with after leveling everything and collecting the gil. Add on what you do from definitely not everyone, and that will certainly not generate 257.7bil gil from those with souls. Souless people who teleport around and have a lot of accounts can certainly do it.

SE has a program that shows trade history of accounts and characters !
The same program used in FF11 ....

If you made a trade of large amounts of Gil with a known Gil seller , they can ban you for it .

it is not a easy job to do but eventually 80% of Gil buyers get caught !
Mean while I have 50+ GS spammers on my block list that should have been banned by now :(

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Originally Posted by Reika

I don't think that players with souls can put 367.7 bil into the economy in one month on new servers. Running dungeons before the fix did a number on enough peoples wallets, because not everyone crafts/gatherters and not every crafter does what you do. Fates give lolow gil too...

257.7B+ gil would have to be generated after all else is said in done with after leveling everything and collecting the gil. Add on what you do from definitely not everyone, and that will certainly not generate 257.7bil gil from those with souls. Souless people who teleport around and have a lot of accounts can certainly do it.

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I've no doubt that 10-20% of the economy is being inflated right now by bots. As a crafter who watches the markets I probably notice it more frequently than the average player.

It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together when you see a retainer named Asdfsdneop selling 10 stacks of 9999 wind shards for 50% of what everyone else has them at. It's easier to avoid buying from them now because they have lost so many accounts. Now they try to sell huge bulk stacks to maximize their retainer slots. Even though plenty of players like myself have the gil to capitalize on their supersaver costco sized deals, if you check the price history you'll see we never do.

We're so fed up with goldspamming and being undercut into oblivion by bots that we are happy to buy 5329 shards from someone we know isn't a bot at 40 gil instead of 9999 at 20 gil from Hygthidyesg.

My point is just that enough gil is generated from legitimate players to keep this economy rolling without them.

SE is banning cheaters. now there playing victim like usual.

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Originally Posted by GinsterUnit

I personally know people who have been banned and know they did not cheat.

So who do you, with your statement so broad know who has been banned?

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Are you with the people 24/7?

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Originally Posted by GinsterUnit

I personally know people who have been banned and know they did not cheat.

So who do you, with your statement so broad know who has been banned?

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SE themselves said they won't randomly suspend anyone (let alone ban) unless something shady has been going on. I even posted a link to the rep statement.

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Originally Posted by indira

Are you with the people 24/7?

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but .......my friend/brother/mother/dog told me .... !!!!!

friends and family LIE the most about buying gil , using hacks ect

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

There's obviously no point in continuing to defend myself

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Sorry to kick you while you are down, but there was NEVER any point for you to defend yourself. I've said this at least a couple of times by now, but S-E does not discuss it's ban/suspension policy on an open forum, nor do they read your pleads of innocence. All of these bans are a private matter between the player and S-E, and I still have no idea why so many of you seem so keen on washing your dirty laundry in the public. If you are innocent, act like it: wait for them to come to a conclusion, don't rant on forums how you are innocent.

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Originally Posted by GinsterUnit

I personally know people who have been banned and assume they did not cheat.

So who do you, with your statement so broad know who has been banned?

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Fixed that for ya.

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Originally Posted by Anderian

If you are innocent, act like it: wait for them to come to a conclusion, don't rant on forums how you are innocent.

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If this "blanket ban" were wider scale and included more legit players, I'm confidant the forums would be blazing by now.

This is the only slight chance we have of notifying SE staff about the issue because:

Email Support: Say to phone them/use live chat.
Phone: Automated response saying they are not taking calls due to volume.
Live Chat: Say they don't have the power to look into accounts, only staff in Japan do apparently.

How can you all seriously believe "Legit players won't complain if they are wrongfully suspended"?

Phone CS: They have no power too, they don't know why you are suspended, they have no power to do anything but tell you "You did something wrong, we don't know, but you are 100% guilty because our computer system says you violated TOS for some reason that we don't know why. But our systems are 100% impossible to make a mistake so you MUST be guilty." And you a suspended 72 hours square enix time - which is 7 days to us laymen.
My god if the US court system was like that, Then everyone in the US will false report someone they hate to get them jailed and or killed. Salem Witch hunts, let it begin!

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Legit players won't complain if they are wrongfully suspended"?

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I said no such thing. I said that complaining about it here won't help, and can get you in more trouble.

I've also said this many times; S-E's customer service is horrible, I played FFXI for years since the NA launch, so I know. But that doesn't change the fact that you are more than likely making things only worse for yourself by publicly discussing the fact that you were suspended (unfairly or not). I can guarantee you that no matter how much you complain on these forums, it won't get you your account reactivated any faster, or help your case any way.

And lastly, this isn't a "blanket ban". It was mentioned earlier, but S-E has stated that all of the near six hundred accounts they have suspended are suspected of illicit activity. I can guarantee you that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of players with tens of millions of gil that have not been caught in this ban.

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

If that's how innocent people should act, why do defense attorneys often speak at length about people they represent to the press? My understanding is that occasionally, defense attorneys represent people who are *actually innocent*. I didn't realize there was an 'appropriate way' to act innocent - I *am* innocent.

To your other point, policy doesn't change if nobody challenges it. I doubt it'll change from this, but it's a better chance than if I just accepted my wrongful suspension like I'm not a customer and long-time fan. Feel free to keep telling me I shouldn't bother though if you disagree, I appreciate the thread bumps. I'm not sure what your goal is - glee at our frustration? A clever subversive game where you actually agree but want to help us maintain thread visibility? An inability to let an argument go when there's nothing in it for you?

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You seem to be confused. Do you believe this is court? No? Maybe you think this is S-E's customer service hotline? You are, quite literally, talking to a wall here. All the people who are listening are players such as yourself, who have no control over this matter. And the few moderators and forum reps over here aren't going to go "wow, this Jacotto character sure seems innocent, better call the main office and have them lift the ban". So you can see why all this ranting and talk of innocence would seem quite silly, no? But hey, good luck with changing their policy (which has served them well for well over a decade, I might add) with a few forum posts. If you would stop arguing with me, you might realize that I'm actually trying to help. You wouldn't want to get permabanned for discussing your suspension, right?

So far nobody has come forward to say *they* had over 10mil on a non-legacy server when the bans hit, so I'm doubting 10's of thousands had that amount of gil before the bans.

You may be right, this may only make matters worse, but I don't believe I have been rude etc.

Like I said, this is the only place we have to bring the matter to peoples attention.

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

To be fair, my support rep confirmed that if I didn't buy or sell gil (RMT), or take advantage of an exploit (illicit activity), my account would eventually be restored and my gil will not be confiscated. I asked him to confirm this was info he had from SE and not just his best guess and he told me support was informed this is the case over the weekend. A few other folks on reddit reported similar conversations so it seems like there's message discipline. So CS hasn't been entirely useless - they have at least put my mind at ease on one of the two big issues here.

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Talked to CS today, and she said she heard nothing of that sort and no one is promising anything, other than we are all guility for one reason or another and we are all on our first strike regardless if we are truly innocent or not.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

So far nobody has come forward to say *they* had over 10mil on a non-legacy server when the bans hit, so I'm doubting 10's of thousands had that amount of gil before the bans.

You may be right, this may only make matters worse, but I don't believe I have been rude etc.

Like I said, this is the only place we have to bring the matter to peoples attention.

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And what has that gotten you, hm? Most people here seem more convinced than ever that you did something wrong. Meanwhile, we got class acts like Jacotto biting my head off when I try to explain, quite politely and reasonably, that you seriously should just count yourself lucky that you get your accounts back, when S-E has been known to be less than merciful in the past, even when the players in question have been innocent. Contrary to what you might believe, I am on your side. And what I've learned in the past as S-Es customer, is that you better just keep your head down and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

So on the one hand you say SE will never see this, but then that it will get us in more trouble?

I don't see how this can possibly get me in any trouble - I'm discussing an error I believe SE made on the forums, they are more than welcome to provide clarity or a counterpoint if it means anything to them (which I doubt it does). Thank you for continuing to advocate for the futility of our actions, but I remain unconvinced it's entirely without purpose. At the very least it provides a decent stress outlet, although I do hope we can get some kind of response.

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You seriously should stop putting words in my mouth. Starting to piss me off, and makes you look like a troll. I didn't say that they wouldn't see them, I said they wouldn't listen. Since laws don't enter the equation (it's not against the law to terminate your account, you know), they can decide to terminate your account because you are discussing your suspensions, which, as I said before, is a private matter.

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

If it's starting to piss you off I don't see why you're still here. What is your vested interest in this conversation that requires your continued presence? I don't see how I'm trolling when I have a very vested interest here. I'd still like a response from SE, a community rep, what have you. I'll just have to hope that they won't decide to terminate my account based on my requests for clarification, but I thank you again for your continued concern - even when conveying that you are obviously upset with me. It's a sign of maturity and I do appreciate it.

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Fair enough. I've said my piece, I'm not trying to force anyone to see it my way.

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Originally Posted by Reiia

Talked to CS today, and she said she heard nothing of that sort and no one is promising anything, other than we are all guility for one reason or another and we are all on our first strike regardless if we are truly innocent or not.

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I feel great in a game where I get "strikes" without doing anything wrong beside selling something on the market to someone who bought gils, which I have absolutly no control over (and don't tell me it would be obvious, I just started crafting and the most expensive item I sold was at 6500g and 40 HQ DS ores at 1k each).

Have we gotten any updates on people who came out of the 72 hr ban? Several FC mates had over 8m and none of our guys got the ban hammer. And going by SE own statement that they have frozen like 372,000 million (roughly what they said) (and SE thats not a number) I can say so far SE has been dropping the ball on lots of things some I wont state here due to fearing the forum ban hammer again.. But would have to say if its true they blanket banned tons of legit players (by tons I mean maybe just a couple hundred) without due diligence Ill probably just cancel my account.

Also lets stop bashing each other guys like seriously this isn't LoL we don't need to be a toxic community like that

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Originally Posted by Anderian

And what has that gotten you, hm? Most people here seem more convinced than ever that you did something wrong. Meanwhile, we got class acts like Jacotto biting my head off when I try to explain, quite politely and reasonably, that you seriously should just count yourself lucky that you get your accounts back, when S-E has been known to be less than merciful in the past, even when the players in question have been innocent. Contrary to what you might believe, I am on your side. And what I've learned in the past as S-Es customer, is that you better just keep your head down and hope for the best.

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It's got us nowhere and your right that most here won't believe many individuals over an automated email sent by SE.

While I may get nowhere by complaining, I have also found you certainly get nowhere if you stand by and do nothing either. (referring to RL)

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Originally Posted by LunaticWoda

Have we gotten any updates on people who came out of the 72 hr ban?

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Nothing yet.

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Originally Posted by Jacotto

Thanks for the support.

No, I haven't heard of anyone getting unsuspended yet, and that'd be lighting up reddit if they had been. In regard to canceling accounts, it's a sign of what a great job SE has done with the game for die-hard FF fans like myself that I'm still willing to stay subscribed and keep playing at this point if I get my account back untampered. After this abhorrent treatment I wouldn't do that for any other game.

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Its not 72 hour ban its 7 day ban. They forgot a important thing when i asked them on Friday (called today to confirm wtf is going on, and get a whole different story from friday.... basically don't believe anything CS says. They have no unified answer and just feels like they are saying whatever they want to make you feel like they are halping) that the accounts were flagged and even though you were instantly suspended, the servers did not register until monday when the timer started ticking AND its for 72 hours JPN time... so earlist we will know is Friday if the CS is spouting more BS about the innocent ones caught in this net won't lose their gil. After seeing that bogus STF report im pretty sure any innocents caught in this had their gil taken away. Because at this point they are just waving their TOS/EULA like their billy stick and smacking people with it innocent or not to try and make example of people who were unfortuned enough to be swepted up with the actual guilty ones.

Makes you wonder if these people just throw darts at a board for a story to tell you...

TL;DR = 72 HOURS SUSPENSION SQUARE ENIX TIME = 7 DAY SUSPENSION LAYMAN TERMS.

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TL;DR = 72 HOURS SUSPENSION SQUARE ENIX TIME = 7 DAY SUSPENSION LAYMAN TERMS.

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Bummer, some people should record their calls when calling CS and montage it up on youtube to see how whack this really is. Im truly curious to see how this pans out.

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Originally Posted by LunaticWoda

Bummer, some people should record their calls when calling CS and montage it up on youtube to see how whack this really is. Im truly curious to see how this pans out.

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They are nice people, but it gets annoying when every time you call, it is a new story.

Nearly 60k views / 500 posts and not a single word from a SE staff member / "community rep".