Ninja: Walk in shadow.

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Originally Posted by dark494

On a different note, I guess Dancing Edge is bugged. You don't have to hit from the flank with it for increased potency, like the tooltip says.

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Probably another mistake of the english translation. In the german version it doesnt mention that you have to hit from the flank at all. Thanks for the confirmation on which version is correct.

So that means ARR now has a melee with pretty much no positional requirements. Tbh that could be a balance issue if dmg is on par or higher to other melees because a position free melee will naturaly be less effected by mechanics, kinda like BRD is less effected by mechanics in comparison to BLM and deals less dmg in return. Lets wait and see though, first parses seem to have NIN quite a bit lower than MNK.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Probably another mistake of the english translation. In the german version it doesnt mention that you have to hit from the flank at all. Thanks for the confirmation on which version is correct.

So that means ARR now has a melee with pretty much no positional requirements. Tbh that could be a balance issue if dmg is on par or higher to other melees because a position free melee will naturaly be less effected by mechanics, kinda like BRD is less effected by mechanics in comparison to BLM and deals less dmg in return. Lets wait and see though, first parses seem to have NIN quite a bit lower than MNK.

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Eh i wouldn't read too much into it. It probably won't be long until people call it the lazy dps class lol

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Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Eh i wouldn't read too much into it. It probably won't be long until people call it the lazy dps class lol

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Won't matter how lazy it is when they puttin them numbers up. Kobe. o7

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Won't matter how lazy it is when they puttin them numbers up. Kobe. o7

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True. I think I'm one of the only people who actually like that positional requirements for ninja is at a minimum lol

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Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

True. I think I'm one of the only people who actually like that positional requirements for ninja is at a minimum lol

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You are not alone. I am here with you. I will stand wherever I want and whoop @$$, thank you very much.

So which is more use TA or SA and why? Suiton give u an auto hide mid fight so u can use SATA, is that a good opening?
Are all the mudras on same cool down? So if I do huton do I need to wait 20sec before I can do another ninjutsu?

TA is more useful, as it gives a 10s damage increase debuff on the target, so your whole party benefits. As an opener, it's ok for dungeon trash mobs, but you'll want to at least make sure Huton is up when you start a boss battle. All the mudras share a .5 second cooldown, followed by a 20 second cooldown after using Ninjutsu. If you cast a mudra and DON'T use ninjutsu within 5 seconds of the last mudra cast, the ninjutsu cooldown automatically kicks in.

Been playing 50 and content with my NIN for a while now. Its a very fun job and I have gotten the hang of it and doing decent results, but this is definitely the most heavy management job I have played in this game. Always keeping up AE, SE, and Mutilate at all times (Dancing Edge also if no WAR) while dealing with Mudra and managing my timing with Huton, Suiton(SATA), and Raiton. It feels like I am dealing with two different mechanics and it can be done efficiently, but will really need to know where your buttons are for bosses with heavy mechanics. Compared to MNK and DRG, this is definitely a more complex job to learn and has a heavier learning curve. Again, it is a fun job and does have it's place, but if you are not one who is good at high management jobs, I would look elsewhere.

Just copying my post from Reddit. This should yield around 450 DPS provided you cycle through both effectively.

Lets break down the ninja rotation in terms of skill and ninjutsu

Skill:
The atypical rotation will be to keep dancing edge up(slashing debuff) while refreshing shadow edge dot and mutilate.
The skill rotation will be

Rotation 1
Mutilate - SE - GS - Shadow Fang - SE -Dancing Edge - SE - GS - Aeolian edge

Rinse and repeat and throw offGCDs/ CDs in the midst

Ninjutsu:
Generally you will be refreshing Huton for the attack speed buff, Suiton then applying trick attack for the 10% incoming damage buff, Raiton then refresh Huton

The ninjutsu rotations will go

Rotation 1(Without Kassatsu)
Huton - Suiton - Raiton

Rotation 2(With Kassatsu)
Huton - Suiton - Raiton - Raiton

Note:You can use Huton out of combat to advance the rotation one step.

I think you meant to switch shadow fang and dancing edge. Or two parts a are swapped. Gust slash doesn't go into shadow fang.

I assume you mean:

Mut - SE - SF - SE - GS - DE - SE - GS - AE ?

Shadow Fang combo's off SE, DE combo's off of GS.

Optimal rotation thus far... Edit incoming.

Huton -> Dancing -> Mutilate -> Shadow -> Suiton -> Aeolian -> TA -> Kass -> Raiton -> Dancing -> Shadow -> Aeolian -> Rai or Huton, Rai if >20 seconds on Huton, Huton if <20 seconds on Huton. Weave in off GCDs, save BFB and IR pop around Mutilate/ Shadow, reapply Mutilate as needed after each combo, Shadow will be every other Aeolian/Dancing... Puts out some sick DPS.

How much would you say it does?

Well, I am doing 390 at i98... With Zenith and some crappy accessories.

EDIT: I will post a video up later when I get a wee bit more gear...

(Suiton)Spin(trick)>Shadow(B4b)>Mut(IR)>Spin(Kas)>Gust(Raiton)>AE(Mug)

() = OGCD

Huton should be up before pull so your mudra will be up to cast suiton. This opener assumes you have a warrior.

What do u mean TA gives bonus dmg to everyone, does it debuff, so it gives DK Dis and Foe on the enemies?

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

What do u mean TA gives bonus dmg to everyone, does it debuff, so it gives DK Dis and Foe on the enemies?

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Gives vulnerability up, but pretty much does what you just listed.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

What do u mean TA gives bonus dmg to everyone, does it debuff, so it gives DK Dis and Foe on the enemies?

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Better. It's a straight +10% damage debuff. I'm assuming this actually makes it better than the other debuffs, which usually don't apply to dots.

A few musing since hitting 50.

> Katon does indeed crit on all mobs when used with kassatsu

> Putting your mudra's in order of jin - Chi -ten helps a huge amount in remembers the order. ---> Huton --> or <-- Raiton <--- Suiton
Any that I don't use often are put in spare hotbars of to the side a refreshers if I ever forget.

> Ninja is kind on controllers because you don't lose auto attacks but has too many abilities to fit into the standard 1.5 hotbars. As they all hold a degree of usefulness.

> 2 or 3 ninjas in ST make it the fastest thing you'll ever do, that trick attack buff for 15dps is insane.

> Dancing edge does indeed have no positional requirements so your optimum standing position is to the rear of the target for instant trick attacks.

> The soldiery weapons look like ass and it might be worth doing the relic question just to glamour.

> at this point goad is very ineffective outside of a voice chat environment

> Ninja hits hard... I was already doing 850 DMG SA at 47 and have hit my highest number of a 1400 raiton at i96 with i110 weapon.

Are the Hitcaps for Final Coil already known? I'm thinking about what poetry-gear i need to buy.

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Originally Posted by Ashrak

Are the Hitcaps for Final Coil already known? I'm thinking about what poetry-gear i need to buy.

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Probably will be kept tight lipped until someone downs T13.

That is awesome about TA. So pretty much suiton+ TA always and TA from the rear.

So has anyone tested stat priorities on NIN yet between Determination ~ Crit ~ Skill Speed?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So has anyone tested stat priorities on NIN yet between Determination ~ Crit ~ Skill Speed?

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Based on low tp consumption I'd say skill speed will help nins a lot in increasing their damage and tying the small gaps between their dots/debuffs together.

Determination is the other one that Will be pretty important Imo. Of course it's going to depend on what's BiS and how much the skill speed from the poetic all again affects nin.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Based on low tp consumption I'd say skill speed will help nins a lot in increasing their damage and tying the small gaps between their dots/debuffs together.

Determination is the other one that Will be pretty important Imo.

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Their TP consumption and speed is the exact same as MNK (slightly worse since they have to do the 60TP starter slightly more often) so I don't see how that's an argument supporting skillspeed.

I keep hearing people argue between Crit and Det, but not seeing any actual data off any of them.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Their TP consumption and speed is the exact same as MNK (slightly worse since they have to do the 60TP starter slightly more often) so I don't see how that's an argument supporting skillspeed.

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Not exactly the same due to mudra casts so it just feels like it consumes tp slower to me.

On the flip side though, the faster your GCD you more time your mudras eat into, as they cannot be sped up by skillspeed. And Jutsu is used so often that I feel this would be a hefty loss.

I don't have any numbers to back this up ofcourse, but I feel crit + det is still going to be the best way to go.

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Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

On the flip side though, the faster your GCD you more time your mudras eat into, as they cannot be sped up by skillspeed. And Jutsu is used so often that I feel this would be a hefty loss.

I don't have any numbers to back this up ofcourse, but I feel crit + det is still going to be the best way to go.

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Really, that's good to know. If that's the case then you're probably right.

I don't have ninja yet but how about this rotation
Huton xpot Saiton b4b TA IR dots kassatsu raiton the combo 123, is that a viable good opening.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

I don't have ninja yet but how about this rotation
Huton xpot Saiton b4b TA IR dots kassatsu raiton the combo 123, is that a viable good opening.

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At first glance, I'd say you have too many oGCD abilities next to each other.

Ok how would you fix that? And making sure that the dots will b buff. Also DE help dots from the debuff u get from DE

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

Ok how would you fix that? And making sure that the dots will b buff. Also DE help dots from the debuff u get from DE

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Dancing Edge does nothing to dots, only the initial hit.

Well I still have 5 more days before I get home. So hopefully by then the ninja will have both burst and regular rotation. I've watch YouTube videos of a 450 dps nin but it was blurry and the moves was not written down so it was hard to see and fallow which move is being use.

Aside from Mutilate, your DoTs come from your GCD combos. So you should weave your oGCD stuff in between your combos. The general consensus so far is that Huton should be up before the tank pulls. I've never been much for using potions (I have enough inventory management problems as is), BUT I would say Huton...then IR->Spinning edge->B4B->Gust Slash->X-pot->Dancing Edge->Suiton->Mutilate->Trick Attack->Spinning Edge->Kassatsu->Shadow Fang->Raiton.

This is just an example. I need to double check my buff times, but I THINK this will let you get Trick Attack off with all your attack buffs active, allowing for maximum potency. There's a post on another thread where somebody has this more figured out I think. Not sure if they included IR and B4B, but you get the idea.

Yeah I like to use pots since I like big numbers but I like ur rotation pretty nice appreciate ur help. Could u post that rotation from another thread I'd like to read that. Besides raiton huton Saiton kassatsu. What other ninjutsu are use and for what reason they are used.

At shaolin Mike how do u open with ur ninja in boss and what numbers do u get on like a dummy lets say 5 min

I'm on PS4 so I don't have a parser. I'm far from the best ninja in game so far, but if u go back a couples pages in this thread, there's a guy who posted his rotation and said she's doing close to 400 DPS. I was just using his rotation and adding in your x-potion basically.

Ok I'll look into it

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

I'm on PS4 so I don't have a parser. I'm far from the best ninja in game so far, but if u go back a couples pages in this thread, there's a guy who posted his rotation and said she's doing close to 400 DPS. I was just using his rotation and adding in your x-potion basically.

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^ ^ :P

But back on topic I don't think anyone has got the hang of Ninja just yet, it's incredibly difficult to play in a raid enviroment, there's so much going on to try and get a rotation going that as soon as you need to switch targets its incredibly difficult to work out what you should be going back to.

A lot of the playerbase will probably play this for the challenge, but it'll probably lead to a lot of tunnel visioning in the early days while we watch those cooldown timers like a hawk.