Support for FCFS housing in 6.1

I would definitely prefer a few FCFS wards, simply because lottery favors the insanely rich FCs who just put all their members up to enter. Sure, with FCFS they can also horde-storm plots but at least you have a *chance* to beat them + time sensitive log-ins will reduce the ability of large-scale bidding, whereas lottery is already an abyssmal chance as is, but will practically be impossible with groups entering the lottery. Plus, I have to say, while lottery is fair (at least if you actually compete with only one entry), the % is so low that I feel like everyone who genuinely wants a house will be better off hoping for FCFS. With the relocation changes houses simply won't go free anymore, so the only people really profiting from lottery are the ones that "sorta kinda" want a house but won't put in any time or work and just sorta wait on it happening.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

You have a very odd idea of what fair is. All players in this game are equal in terms of what they have access to. Your being here longer than others does not entitle you to any special benefits. The Lottery is objectively fair as it treats everyone equally. As for Divinemights, that person was the first to throw down the term "delusion" and tied that to a claim that there "is no fair system". What I am beginning to see from the two of you is a rather unfortunate sense of entitlement.

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I was not trying to say that those who have been here longer deserve special benefit, though perhaps I used a poorly worded example.

The point was that those who don't care about housing and are just spending their gil on houses because they've got nothing better to do with the gil (or are looking to make a profit in the case of FC houses) are now in the position of easily being able to force out those who actively desire a house to use and have been trying a long time to get one without success. The former won't engage with the system once they have a house while those who want to engage with the system still aren't getting the chance.

It is not a fair system when only some who meet the basic requirements are rewarded and others get left out despite having met those same requirements. A fair system would make certain that everyone who meets the requirements is rewarded.

I'm in agreement with Divinemights on this one topic (and the two of us agreeing on anything is a rarity if you go back through our post history). It's a delusion to think the lottery is a fair system. It still has its flaws. Being a better system than FCFS doesn't make it a fair one.

There's also a big difference between calling a specific thought delusion and calling a person delusional. Maybe avoid the ad hominem attacks? You can't control what someone else chooses to say but you can control what you say.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

From my understanding of how the Lottery will be run, you can only make one bid at a time, no matter how much Gil you have. Now for FCs there is the possibility of spreading that Gill out to have many bids on a FC house. However, we don't know yet how wards will be distributed with regards to personal housing and FCs. As for that incredible amount of Gil that some people have, it would be nice for there to be SOMETHING of value introduced into the game that would drain a little of that Gil away. Island Sanctuaries might be that something, but we know so little about them right now that it would be a fool's game to speculate too much about them.

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It appears to be one bid per character, not per account. Someone with multiple characters could potentially make multiple bids.

Unfortunately, that incredible amount of gil that some players have will never get drained out of the game unless SE makes a radical change to the gil cap and reduces it per account substantially. They can't put a high price on something like Island Sanctuary because that would keep less wealthy players from participating. The gil sink mounts might have been a step in the right direction if they hadn't used recolors of existing mounts - and if the prices had been 10 times higher than what they are.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

The biggest mistake most people make is not thinking beyond Emperyum. What happens in May or June when we are back to one demo a week or one demo per two weeks?

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We end up with a bunch of complaints as players are still unable to get a house because there will be hundreds if not thousands competing for the same plot (depending on how many are available for that lottery period).

It's what some of us have been pointing out all along - SE is shuffling the RNG involved in getting a house without addressing what makes getting a house a problem in the first place. The wards will never be sufficient to serve all of the player base that wishes to obtain a house. People will be happy at first because a change was made then end up angry when the change doesn't improve their situation.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It is not a fair system when only some who meet the basic requirements are rewarded and others get left out despite having met those same requirements. A fair system would make certain that everyone who meets the requirements is rewarded.

I'm in agreement with Divinemights on this one topic (and the two of us agreeing on anything is a rarity if you go back through our post history). It's a delusion to think the lottery is a fair system. It still has its flaws. Being a better system than FCFS doesn't make it a fair one.

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I am beginning to realize that you are conflating process and outcome. A system does not have to have the same outcome for all participants in order to be fair. All that is required is that the rules are set so that everyone who wishes to participate may do so and will be treated equally with respect to the process. There is nothing "delusional" about recognizing that a system that applies the same rules to all, is fair. The same outcome can ONLY be assured if there were enough plots to meet the needs of ALL players.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's what some of us have been pointing out all along - SE is shuffling the RNG involved in getting a house without addressing what makes getting a house a problem in the first place. The wards will never be sufficient to serve all of the player base that wishes to obtain a house. People will be happy at first because a change was made then end up angry when the change doesn't improve their situation.

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Yes, some of us. Far to many are still blinded by the one event over a few days in the middle of April, and still forget what comes after.

On FCFS the people at the placard were those who wanted a house. They went through the unhealthy, numbing pain - Diadem and Beatus of the Firmament like - to get it. But it was absolutely possible to beat the bots and crowds if you kept at it, joined a discord, and only clicked between hours 12 and 14.

After Emperyum, when we are back to one house a fortnight, and probably thousands entering - because "hey, it's cheaper than a minion and easier than Grand Cacptpot" - there is no chance, just dissapointment.

Even if lottery is lower odds in the end, at least I get to spend my time playing the game while having a chance at the house instead of 'playing' placard clicker for hours on end with no assurance of ever winning against the dozens of housing bots out there, not to mention risking injuries due to repetitive stress motions.

So no thanks, FCFS should just be relegated to the consigns of history and no one should ever speak of it again.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Even if lottery is lower odds in the end, at least I get to spend my time playing the game while having a chance at the house instead of 'playing' placard clicker for hours on end with no assurance of ever winning against the dozens of housing bots out there, not to mention risking injuries due to repetitive stress motions.

So no thanks, FCFS should just be relegated to the consigns of history and no one should ever speak of it again.

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Dust is settled, you got what you want that.
It is amused to see Balmung people saying this since their odd is worst among all servers

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Even if lottery is lower odds in the end, at least I get to spend my time playing the game while having a chance at the house instead of 'playing' placard clicker for hours on end with no assurance of ever winning against the dozens of housing bots out there, not to mention risking injuries due to repetitive stress motions.

So no thanks, FCFS should just be relegated to the consigns of history and no one should ever speak of it again.

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If you're worried about repetitive motion injuries, why are you playing a MMO? Pressing buttons for a placard is no more stressful than pressing buttons for combat or pressing buttons to chat. We're always pressing buttons while we're playing. Placard camping is just a more boring choice of activity. If you're thinking about the length of time you spend doing it, nothing is stopping you from taking a break.

Some players will defintiely continue to speak about FCFS because they will remember the time they could just walk up to a placard to buy a house, no hassle other than being in the right place at the right time.

Patch 4.2 had been a great time for house buyers (unless they were playing on Balmung). It took a few months for all those new plots to get purchased (player base was about a third of the size it is now but we got the same number of new plots that Empyreum will be adding). Some worlds still had available plots all the way into the start of 2019. No placard camping in most cases. No waiting on a lottery period to end and results to be posted on the placard to see if your entry is going to be picked over 500+ other entries. Why would players not continue to talk about those days?

Speaking of results, willing to bet that's going to end up another common complaint. "Why do I have to go back to the plot to find out if I won? Can't you just send me an in-game mail? It's going to be so disheartening to make the trip all the way to the plot just to see another player's name listed and know I'll have to wait until the next lottery period starts before I can try again".

Another possible complaint: "I can't remember what plot I entered for! How do I find out so I can see if I won?" Hopefully SE has either thought to add lottery entries with plot numbers to Estate Timers or will be able to do so because I can definitely see some players forgetting the ward and plot number.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

... "I can't remember what plot I entered for! How do I find out so I can see if I won?"...

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I too hope the estate timer panel might get a piece of paper on the right with the entry details. There will be a lot of salt from people if not.

But yeah, shifting the game towards people who don't really care about housing but enter anyway, it will be just like grand cactpot and people will forget they even had an entry until the day after it closes. Even I've done that one, heading to claim the reward to see "sorry, this ticket is no longer valid".

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you're worried about repetitive motion injuries, why are you playing a MMO? Pressing buttons for a placard is no more stressful than pressing buttons for combat or pressing buttons to chat. We're always pressing buttons while we're playing. Placard camping is just a more boring choice of activity. If you're thinking about the length of time you spend doing it, nothing is stopping you from taking a break.

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While I'll agree about pressing buttons and taking regular breaks(which we all should considering how long people can be at the computer at a given time of day or night), I think one of the things he's getting at is not just the motion injuries, but rather the question of "Does this count as proper gameplay?" The answer to that is no, because it isn't engaging and only results as an egregious system that is particularly bad in regards to Housing as a whole. That's why they came up with the lottery system in the first place so that Housing isn't as harshly gated behind the servers trying to take your input(which gets clogged up with all the placard macro clickers using third party software for this alone, bots included) so you can obtain the plot. We've seen it plenty enough that when hundreds of people are trying to get into a particular instance at the same time(i.e. Raubahn EX and Pipin Savage from the days of Stormblood Launch) that it makes it difficult for the server to accept, akin to a Denial of Service attack.

If people want their house, then they can either wait for it or during current days for FCFS simply play Placard Clicker Simulator for hours on end.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Hopefully SE has either thought to add lottery entries with plot numbers to Estate Timers or will be able to do so because I can definitely see some players forgetting the ward and plot number.

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I love your optimism almost as much as I am certain it is unfounded lol!

You're bang on about 4.2 being the golden days of housing though, those were truly the good old days, fondly remembered and never to be revisited it seems.

The only good thing that will come out of this lottery system is the entertainment the forums and reddit will provide in the wake of its implementation.

See you all at the popcorn vendor in a couple of weeks!