No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Maybe its because aoe is fun and satisfying.

And if you're playing healer you're less likely to fall asleep.

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True facts

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Originally Posted by Bakugekiki

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

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Why do you feel entitled to people's time? I am, in no way, committing 90 minutes. That's absolutely absurd. Small pulls nowadays are simply laziness. There is zero reason beyond level 50 to pull less than two packs, and people are justifiably annoyed when it happens. No dungeon hits remotely hard enough to warrant small pulls. If you want to go at your own pace without complaint, well, go with friends or hope for the best. I'm allowed to leave if I feel you're taking longer than I'd prefer.

It may not be a race per se. That doesn't mean I want to spend longer in a dungeon than I have to, especially when I've ran most of them several times by now.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

I don't care about efficiency. What I do care about is being prepared for the unexpected, something that's a given when you're playing with people you know nothing about.

50% for the tank is EXTREMELY concerning. All it takes is the right sequence of attacks and it's a wipe, plain and simple. Spells like Benediction and Excogitation are specifically designed as emergency skills; they aren't a crutch, and you should never abuse them as such.

Willful negligence is still negligence. I also don't think it was synergy when BOTH healers when I was tanking the trash monster in Alex and both let me burn on a boss that doesn't even do much damage today. Regardless, I don't think a level 15 THM alt really has any room to give people advice on healing.

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No, it isn't. 50% is perfectly fine for tanks. Allowing tanks to dip low is getting value out of your toolkit. You not caring about efficiency is simply you being a bad healer and being unwilling to learn how to become efficient. If I can keep my tank alive while dishing out more than double your damage and not wasting oGCDs like Benediction on someone with half their HP left. I did the same job you did except better. Holding back your oGCDs just in case of emergencies will more often lead to you never pressing them, thus they were completely useless. This is why say, Paladins do big pulls with Hallowed Ground first, then rotate other CDs. There's no reason to hold HG as an "oh, crap" button because 99% of the time, it'll just sit there doing precisely nothing the whole time.

Pulls should be to the tank and healer ability to hold hate and keep ppl alive. That said, if it's at a dungeon level where everyone has AOE pull away. And at expert dungeon level the more the tank pulls the more I love it. Let me use all my AOE abilities to burn down the mobs. And the ranged LB on the massive trash pulls is just fun!

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Originally Posted by Bakugekiki

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

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Big pulls are fine if everyone is ok with that. So are small pulls. My FC did some experiments and sometimes smaller pulls were faster because the enemies died a lot quicker, due to everyone basically being able to focus on dps and only incidently things like mitigation or healing.

The problem is, small pulls generally force you out of standard rotations. If the mob is 3-4 enemies or less, its more efficient to single-target while weaving in certain aoe skills. This means you can't mindlessly mash your aoe or single target rotation but react with a bit of both and good luck getting anyone to think on their feet like that.

Its not the Reddit/Optimized way even if it could theoretically work just as well so no one wants to player adjust because thinking/reacting is hard bro.

I feel you. I'll take tanking smart over tanking large. Everytime.

Straight up, nice thread got a lot of bites, and enjoyed reading it overall.

I know this is bait, but I'll bite - tanks can and should be pulling as large as they can. If they have the two brain cells necessary to rotate cooldowns, it'll be great. Healers can just use their OGCDs to keep the tank up, and they shouldn't have to worry about anyone else. Also, spamming gravity is fun.

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

Ignoring the usual of people throwing sh!t at each other: Does anyone know if it has always been normal that mobs in dungeons turn invincible and (try to) return to their starting position - like in open world - after they got dragged a certain distance by wall-to-wall/large pulls? I noticed it a couple of times in lower-ARR dungeons since 5.1, but can't remember it in HW dungeons when other tanks did it.

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Actually I just saw a mob do this in Aurum Vale last night. So at least up to there. It seems to be dependent on exactly where each dungeon's leash point is. It's not generally behavior you see a lot of except in certain circumstances where the leash point is really short compared to where the mobs spawn.

Major oof.
SCH -> Adlo + Excog (EOS BONUS!)
WHM -> Powerful af regens, assize, asylum, tetra, etc.
AST -> Powerful regens too. :p

It's quicker with big pulls, and ShB gave AOEs to EVERYONE.

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Originally Posted by emik0

It's quicker with big pulls, and ShB gave AOEs to EVERYONE.

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It shouldn't even be a question. Though I understand this entire thread is meant as a troll. Even if I respond to it seriously, it should be common sense that each mob in a dungeon will take the same amount of damage to kill regardless of whether you fight 1 at a time or 15 at a time. Their HP values remain constant. Therefore as long as your healer can keep up with incoming damage, the combined aoe damage from your dps will far outweigh the total damage you could accomplish over the same period of time in small packs.

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Originally Posted by Bakugekiki

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

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No more posting from you. Problem solved