Please make healing more worthwhile than Dps-ing

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Maybe, but it seems so out there to you that there are people who do enjoy things that you didn't, and every post you play out like it's a fact. Yes, opinions are certainly a thing and your entitled to yours, but when you say something like "stance dancing was superior" and label that as fact, just as in every post where somebody disagrees with you. You don't ever come off as "this is my opinion" you state everything as if it is fact and only your interpretation of healers or w/e is the correct one. No, you don't have to say "in my opinion" before every post, but to act like you can tell people what they enjoyed about healers, ie. Saying cleric stance was better then dots so why even bother bringing those up, makes you come off as arrogant.

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That was obviously his opinion, people don't tend to preface everything with a "this is my opinion" since it should be obvious. People tend to to express their opinions with fact like manner, nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

I'm sorry, what?

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fairly certain his response was a sarcastic joke.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

fairly certain his response was a sarcastic joke.

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I really hope it is.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

That was obviously his opinion, people don't tend to preface everything with a "this is my opinion" since it should be obvious. People tend to to express their opinions with fact like manner, nothing new.

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Fair enough I suppose. Most likely a lot of it is biased at that individual as well, considsding how they went on tangent like"new AST is obviously superior and others will see that I'm right eventually" (still haven't seen those AST numbers go up at all, and we're 8-9 weeks into the raid tier, so, you know. Oops)

i think its safe to say that everyone here ,with whatever they liked about their healers, wish for it to come back and make all 3 healers fun and engaging while keeping proper balance,so there is no need to fight about what we liked or dont liked ok ^^ .
SCH wish to have their dots and selene back,AST wants varied cards buff again, WHM is in a good spot but if it can be made even better it will always be a welcome addition.
in the end,i think we can all agree that the problem lies with the blunt changes they did to all healers and wish SE to give healers their unique identity and that their unique kits that will actually balanced them all and will complete what the other lacking.

to the OP, i said it in previous post the problem isn't making healing worthwhile cause most that do play healers know how important healing is and will gladly heal when its truly needed.
your problem is with the actual person you got stuck in the raid. tying healing to dps sound like an interesting mechanic to a kit as others said(i had fun with that idea for whm kit idea tbh ^^) but it wont solve your problem if the person himself wont press the button to heal or target you for healing so it isn't a class design problem but the person who took the healer spot.

the lack of good healers comes from the changes SE done that drives the healers away from the role cause they truly lost what made them unique and they aren't engaging enough.
it isn't about how much dps we do but what other things we can do when we dont heal cause 1 dps skill, 1 dot skill and 1 aoe skill is not interesting at all.
healers basically want to do more: give more buffs , apply more debuffs , use different dps skills.
we want to have more meaning, to manage different types of buffs that will actually impact and help party members(there are more things that improve dps then pure dmg aka faster casting, healing effect increase,mp regen,mitigation to protect better), manage debuffs that make mobs and boss suffer and be vulnerable(dot,attack reduced,defense reduced, crit hit increased, crit damage increase,even dispel the boss from enchantments works) and lastly to have varied skills that do damage not just 1.

In conclusion,AST need their varied card buffs again(and find a better solution for that fishing problem they suffered),SCH need to have more stuff(give them varied debuffs and pet uniqueness) and while WHM is in a good place give him more stuff that will make him more unique and as important as the other healers and not get discriminated like i heard he suffered in previous expansion.(all of this is of course in proper balance between all us healers ,no discrimination to any healer :) )
the moment there will be various things for healers to do during downtime, you will see that you will get less and less bad healers that don't heal in your party ^^.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Fair enough I suppose. Most likely a lot of it is biased at that individual as well, considsding how they went on tangent like"new AST is obviously superior and others will see that I'm right eventually" (still haven't seen those AST numbers go up at all, and we're 8-9 weeks into the raid tier, so, you know. Oops)

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In the "Goodbye Astro" thread you referenced, I said "AST is strong. The healers are more balanced than they've ever been. People will realize it sooner or later". If I wanted to quote something you said in a different thread, I would have gone to that thread, found the post and made sure I quoted accurately. I expect you to to do the same.

You haven't seen the AST numbers go up "at all"? Have you even looked?

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

In the "Goodbye Astro" thread you referenced, I said "AST is strong. The healers are more balanced than they've ever been. People will realize it sooner or later". If I wanted to quote something you said in a different thread, I would have gone to that thread, found the post and made sure I quoted accurately. I expect you to to do the same.

You haven't seen the AST numbers go up "at all"? Have you even looked?

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My point was not to quote you or to even attack you, merely to show that I have a bias and an example of why I have said bias, so I paraphrased. Should I have gotten an exact quote? Probably, but I'm sick,tired, and at work, so I honestly cannot be bothered to dig through old threads or through profiles or w/e.

As for AST growth, yes, I looked at it this morning, sure it went up, but not in anyway that indicates it's doing well. I have an old SS from sep 2 where AST was at 15k, to today where it was at 17k. A significant growth, until you compare it to the other two healers, who grew at the same amount in the same amount of time, with WHM actually growing a bit more. Tells me the same people who were playing AST are the same people still playing it. If there were any time for AST to get more popular, it'd be now since people are getting bis and would actually care about starting to do parse runs. I am curious how it's grown compared to when the raid tier started. For much the same reason I can't be asked to go back and find the numbers it was at then,so please show me if you have them, if I remember correctly, AST hasn't grown nearly as much as the other two, but that's people off whats in my head so I wont make conjecture.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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I don't recall this tedium you claim to have experienced. In fact, the only time I have ever found myself bored with SCH's basic gameplay is Shadowbringers. It was the tightest, most thought-through design in ARR and it took two expansions for it to get bloated enough to threaten that. Now after "rework" it's a mess with a one-button dps spam rotation and many superfluous cooldowns I rarely find legitimate reason to use outside of wall-to-wall pulls and Titan.

And even in this state, I still consider it the best healer design of the expansion. Give it back the rest of its DoTs and it might even be fun to play in low tension situations again.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

Scholars all around the world had to deal with five dots and stance dancing in HW and things were going well. But apparently SE thinks players have become dumber over the years...?

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I don't want to believe there's anything malicious going on. Just think they are convinced they are doing Scholars (and to my limited knowledge of them, AST and WHM) favors by removing Cleric stance, baking offensive spells into each other, removing nuance spells, streamlining identities, hand out oGCD heals like candy etc. But I wanted to chain myself to these abilities when they came in with the cleaver and shouting "No no, overcoming these incoinveniences are what makes the job so fun!" In their mind, being able to do 10 0000 damage with a single spell seems to be the more lucrative playstyle instead of having it ramp up by being a risky stance, apply several dots in prepared order, actually have to get dangerously close for Miasma 2, casting 3.0s Shadowflare while needing to keep an eye on party healthbars, Lily and boss' castbar for mitigation. Then further forget Ruin/Broil exists because at the point you have nothing else left to do, the fight is over.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Well, they had to change it because Scholar is the only heaer in game. If you liked healing but didn't like DoTs you literally had no other options.

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Hehe, it's almost like there isn't three jobs in the role that couldn't afford to be strikingly different appealing to completely different playstyles. This might be in their grand plan for next expansion: "In ShB we Balanced healers, in 6.0 we balance Everything!"

And hey Tali, almost didn't recognize your portrait.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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Cleric Stance was great (in HW, not in SB and especially not in ShB on account for not existing except with a red line across it on hotbar#8.) but dots were also great. All five of them. So was Selene and the pet hotbar. And the Arcanist skills. I agree, standing before a training dummy apply the dots then stand around wasn't particulary engaging. On the other hand, apply five dots while in Cleric Stance, while Griffin is jumping back and forwards, while a DPS didn't run fast enough took an aoe to the face, the tank is in dps stance, while you're about to be shackled AND you see Aero is just about to drop off! Now that was fun. I've got so many more stories like that. The part of dodging stuff and party taking unnecessary damage still occurs, I just don't have a fraction of the things I used to be able to do while also watching out for the party or when doing stuff alone.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

I really hope it is.

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Probably is.

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

And hey Tali, almost didn't recognize your portrait.

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Hey Quil o/ :cool: