Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

It's actually more like 111, 222, 333, with oGCDs throw in between and whatever other abilities you have. The current system we have now doesn't require any more thought into it than the pvp combos do, they just require more buttons. Before you've pressed your 1, 2, or 3, you already predetermined what your second and third button presses are going to be.

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And yet a primary complaint amongst healers is their DPS rotation consists of spamming 1 endlessly. A good number want the old HW skills back just so they have more buttons to push. Reducing our combos to a single button negates the feeling of a combo entirely. You're just spamming the same key, which gets repetitive. It may not seem like much but it's a big reason fighting games have you enter different button sequences. It's a physiological thing. For a lot of people simply moving their fingers from 1234 gives the illusion of a more engaging system. This is why so many people despise Stormblood PvP right now. And it's failure is why I don't see them porting over the combo consolidation.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Except for classes that have oGCD abilities that modify your DPS and/or abilities that don't impact your Combos.

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Except none of those are relevant. When you start a combo you see that the next in line is made more visible by a frame. That frame doesn't disappear when you use ability, so why would the consolidation do that?! The button simply wouldn't switch to the first part of the combo until after something broke it or time would be up.

Now, what WOULD be affected was the ability to restart the combo in the middle. For example if you wanted to use the damaging combo of a tank, but some mobs popped up that you absolutely need to enmity as fast as possible, or simply one of the DPS managed to catch up to your enmity and you need to regain it. You can start from scratch at that point forsaking the extra damage from using the last skill.


However, it's not like it needs to be mandatory or even done exactly like this. For example it could be made in such a way that you still get every skill separately, but when you push a skill further in the chain, the earlier skill will be used to combo, for example. So say that you push Halone's Rage with no combo count, so it will use Fast Blade instead.

There is never any reason to use the further skills in a chain without combo after all. Even if there was a combo like that, there's no reason why it would have to apply to it, either.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

No one asking for the PVP system LOL.

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Yea, but there's a good chance that's what they'll use for PvE if it came down to it. They'll cut corners and go by THAT system instead of making one that's fundamentally better. We all know how lazy they are sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Yea, but there's a good chance that's what they'll use for PvE if it came down to it. They'll cut corners and go by THAT system instead of making one that's fundamentally better. We all know how lazy they are sometimes.

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They wouldn't directly port the pvp skill system over. They'd modify it. Would still create less button bloat.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They wouldn't directly port the pvp skill system over. They'd modify it. Would still create less button bloat.

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Yea, but not all jobs have button bloat and reducing some of the skills down is going to murder some other jobs like MNK and it's finishers due to positionals. There's not going to be a perfect system without other problems coming out.

They could try to run certain abilities as passive skills, but...that may create a whole other can of worms in and of itself.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And yet a primary complaint amongst healers is their DPS rotation consists of spamming 1 endlessly. A good number want the old HW skills back just so they have more buttons to push. Reducing our combos to a single button negates the feeling of a combo entirely. You're just spamming the same key, which gets repetitive. It may not seem like much but it's a big reason fighting games have you enter different button sequences. It's a physiological thing. For a lot of people simply moving their fingers from 1234 gives the illusion of a more engaging system. This is why so many people despise Stormblood PvP right now. And it's failure is why I don't see them porting over the combo consolidation.

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Then make it optional. You can keep your button bloat if you want, and others can get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

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None of the things you mentioned would be affected by the combo consolidation. You can still do all of that.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Yea, but not all jobs have button bloat and reducing some of the skills down is going to murder some other jobs like MNK and it's finishers due to positionals. There's not going to be a perfect system without other problems coming out.

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Mind explaining how it would affect MNK positionals? I don't see how it would. It would play exactly how it does now, except you'd press one button three times instead of three different buttons.

Hmm, perhaps I misunderstood how the buttons work, because I simply don't PvP.

Okay so you hit the same hotkey and it changes itself automatically?

That's kinda.... eh.

That, to me, would seem kinda boring... hitting the same key over and over again. That's what I do as WHM with Stone and it's boring as crap. 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 during a whole dungeon is some of the worst gameplay in FFXIV.

Don't get me wrong, I like FFXIV, but playing a healer during trash packs is insanely boring. I hate DPSing as a healer, because it feels so.... less-than-satisfying until I get into Lv50+ dungeons where Holy enters the picture, and even then.... can't spam that too much without dumping my MP into the ground.

So back to to Stone Stone Stone Stone spam.

I don't want all my DPS classes to be like this.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Mind explaining how it would affect MNK positionals? I don't see how it would. It would play exactly how it does now, except you'd press one button three times instead of three different buttons.

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Because there are multiple sets requiring certain positionals and they would have to adjust the potency for certain things like Demolish. You have Bootshine, True Strike, and Demolish that all have to be done in the back of the target, meanwhile, you have other things like Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, and Snap Punch on the side. This presents two problems actually because you don't learn Dragon Kick until lvl 50, so that side combo already has a problem.

And theoretically, any MNK would refresh Demolish every 3 combos, but if you're condensing the Monk abilities to just basically turn into 1-1-1, then you'd have adjust Demolish to refresh every 2 combos unless the combos work in a way where you can go 1-1-2 or 2-2-1

It can be done, if done correctly, but it is NOT as simple as you think by just them turning everything into 1-1-1 and then it all works perfectly. As the combos are now, we would have to completely re-tune when certain abilities are used and learned. It would require a full redesign of MNK and possibly any job with positionals.

Dragoon might not have as much of a difficulty, and possibly ninja might be in the same boat....but, monk wouldn't be that easy or not in a very good spot if it was done incorrectly.

And honestly? I don't trust them doing it correctly. And really, they should fix skills like One Ilm Punch before deciding to make everything 1-1-1.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Then make it optional. You can keep your button bloat if you want, and others can get rid of it.

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I find it surprising that most people seem to think XIV's combat style is too slow / too boring, and yet here we are, seeing arguments in favour of dumbing it down more.

Shifting combos to work via multiple presses of a single button would be a mistake. The fundamental issue I have with the idea is that it would reduce my sense of control over my character. There should be nothing 'artificially predicted' about my actions, which condensing combos to a 111 sort of format (as opposed to a 123) would inevitably do. And, making this optional wouldn't be a reasonable path forward, because it would be easier for a player to achieve optimal performance under this redesign, since a 111 system would never be prone to fingers twitching or a player not executing actions in the proper order. There'd be inevitable pressure to use this mode of 'play'.

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Look, I've got issues with FFXIV's approach to creating challenge. It's entirely too reliant on the memorization of fight mechanics, and doesn't involve nearly enough dynamic decision-making. But I really don't think hacking away at the dexterity required to play the game in the name of condensed control schemes is the right approach. There is such a thing as too much streamlining, and anything that removes my sense of control over my character in combat falls into that category, so far as I'm concerned.

I'm going to guess that most of the people against it don't play on a controller, where of the 8 buttons you have immediate access to, 6 of them are dedicated to executing your combos. Which makes accessing any other buttons really clunky.