Restrict Personal Houses to 1 Per Server!

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Hi,fellow person from Coeurl. We didn't have 200+ empty houses (unless you're talking right after 3.3 when they released more wards). Usually at any given time we had several Goblet smalls available and the occasional Lav Beds small. Now and again a medium or two would pop up and sit for a bit as one was demoed. Mist has been consistently full since about a week after 3.3. Did we have empty housing, yes, but it wasn't nearly as dead or available as you keep telling people it was.

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Hello i hate to tell you yes it was the night before free transfers we had 1 fc mate who wanted a house so we went plot looking i counted all 3 wars 218 empty plots. we were all in discord talking about that number 2 other people recounted and had the same number. yes mist was most full.he ended up buying a plot in the mist that night.
As i said before im fine if they wanna change the rules now as they add more hosuing... im not fine with taking things away from people who did nothing wrong just like anyone else who pays there sub and follows the rules you shouldn't be punished period... like others have said grandfather us in and make it so we cant transfer ..

As for housee flippers many many people have said just put a timer on when the pot goes back up for sale after its been relinquished a random 24-72 house timer or how ever long that way the seller can not quantee the buyer the plot

I've actually been looking in to LotRO, and if FFXIV wants to have parity with how many houses LotRO has active, FFXIV needs to have about 20 wards in each neighborhood, as they are averaging about 30-40 neighborhoods (30 house wards) in most of the neighborhoods, with one up around 60 - and each neighborhood only has 30 houses (with the exception of the premium one which is RMT only at 24 houses per neighborhood), with 4 houses in each neighborhood as kinship [FC] houses. The absolute maximum is around 4 * 30 * 256 + 24 * 256 = 36864. LotRO will probably never see that many houses open on a single server, truth be told.

However, bringing that many wards onto the market without doing anything about the land baron is only going to be in the land baron's favor because they can continue to snatch up houses, especially if they are flipping them for over 10 times their cost. That's also ignoring the server impact of bringing online that many wards.

That's also why I want to address account housing capacity, as we need to be able to stretch the housing to cover the most players - which means having players release their extra houses or having SE force the release.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

The wards are usually pretty empty anyway, so I don't see why we can't have instanced housing.

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Perhaps that's because the wards have several people that own multiple plots of land, which is driving down how many players are actually in the ward....

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

Your arguing in game player kicks against people breaking The TOS the DEVS have set... Ok lets break that down shall we. As you said healers don't break any rules not dpsing yet run the risk of getting voke to kicked...those who vote to kick healers for that are guess what Breaking the rules. There is no reason to kick for that. the reasons listed to kick are 1=AFK 2-Offline 3-Harassment 4-Cheating. a healer not dps'ing or not going as a job instead of a class is doing none of them. but the people who kick those people are faslely kicking ,lieing as to why they kicked them because in there personal opinion they don't like there game play...

See the healers not dps'ing and the people who don't do job classes have broke no rules just as the people with multi houses are not breaking the rules.. But the people kicking are lieing as to why there kicking people the Ai to kick has no way to know that so there kicked.

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Try that discussion in the healer forums, and let us know how it goes mmmkay?

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

As i said before im fine if they wanna change the rules now as they add more hosuing... im not fine with taking things away from people who did nothing wrong just like anyone else who pays there sub and follows the rules you shouldn't be punished period... like others have said grandfather us in and make it so we cant transfer ..

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If the point of changing the rules is to free up houses and prevent players from taking more houses than what SE intended, isn't the rules change pointless unless a forced release also happens?

Because SE let the housing issue fester, there is not going to be a change to the housing system that isn't going to screw over some group or another.

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

As for housee flippers many many people have said just put a timer on when the pot goes back up for sale after its been relinquished a random 24-72 house timer or how ever long that way the seller can not quantee the buyer the plot

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Most everyone agrees with that as well, as there are multiple things (including an invisible random timeout and increased capacity) that are needed to fully resolve most of the housing issues.

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

Like i said i have followed SE rules the game makers rules and broke none..your rules don't matter its not your game so just cause you don't like a rule dosn't mean i broke it or cheated.. thats your opinion of the rules.. so your argument breaks down to do what i want or ill break the rules to get what i want

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Rules are subject to change. The argument of 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' is what they were trying to get across with the somewhat clunky analogy. Also, Devs and GM's have stated multiple times that 'difference in playstyle' is a valid kick, not just the options listed in the drop down menu so there your argument breaks down.

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

Hello i hate to tell you yes it was the night before free transfers we had 1 fc mate who wanted a house so we went plot looking i counted all 3 wars 218 empty plots. we were all in discord talking about that number 2 other people recounted and had the same number. yes mist was most full.he ended up buying a plot in the mist that night.

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You claim to have a count, I have a lot of folks I asked going 'That doesn't seem right' hence why I brought it up.

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

As i said before im fine if they wanna change the rules now as they add more hosuing... im not fine with taking things away from people who did nothing wrong just like anyone else who pays there sub and follows the rules you shouldn't be punished period... like others have said grandfather us in and make it so we cant transfer ..

As for housee flippers many many people have said just put a timer on when the pot goes back up for sale after its been relinquished a random 24-72 house timer or how ever long that way the seller can not quantee the buyer the plot

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You're not being punished. People who had their houses demoed weren't being punished. You didn't do anything wrong, thus you are not being punished. What could possibly happen is you may be negatively impacted by a change in rules. As the other half of my post said there are things SE could do that would allow you to keep multiple houses. However, we've all seen that SE likes to use band aid and that's exactly what this is, a band aid. There are plenty of vastly better fixes but can you name one that's faster and cheaper for them?

I named several better fixes in the end of the post that you didn't quote. Dynamic wards would be better, suddenly there are enough houses that everyone. Only downside would be a lack of size options since you'd have to rush a new ward for a large or medium but it would almost ensure a small per character. Vastly improved instanced housing would be better, if you could upgrade the apartments from a tiny room into a mansion-sized penthouse with rooftop patio wouldn't you? Suddenly you wouldn't have to worry about finding a bigger plot or the demo timer. What about just flat out instanced player housing where we can tailor every aspect from the size to the location of our house? Then all the FCs who want FC only wards would be happy and players would have more options than ever before. Any one of these or a combination of these would be a much much better option than limiting the number of houses someone can own. The only issue is all of these take longer and are more expensive than giving themselves more breathing room by making it so a single player can only own nine houses per server instead of sixteen. Grandfathering is a nice idea in theory but problematic in practice due to how they'd have to flag some accounts. Also the whole point of the exercise is to actually free up those extra houses to add to the new wards' worth of housing being released. It's to get as much housing back into the system as possible without actually fixing what's broken i.e. the too limited supply.

I like the timer idea but as someone pointed out to me it only stops the sale of personal housing because flippers will just start selling entire shell FCs, house and all. If a way could be figured out to stop that then yes, timers would be the best way to stop house flipping. Part of me still hopes they do it anyway, anything to cut down on the sellers.

Long and short of it is no matter how much it sucks for some folks this idea has all the earmarks of being an attractive solution to SE. Just like demos were. It's going to do the exact same thing, cause a lot of people who did nothing wrong to lose a lot of things they worked hard for and give them compensation they feel is inadequate. But just like demos it's something that probably should have been there from the beginning and it's something SE could have avoided doing entirely if they'd implemented any of the above suggested fixes instead.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Dynamic wards would be better, suddenly there are enough houses that everyone.

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I could easily see a housing area with over 100 wards if this functionality was given to us. This would probably work in the long term, but only if the price cost for a single house was greatly reduced, and there are limiters that would prevent players from grabbing up any more than 2 houses for a single account (personal and FC of their alts).

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Vastly improved instanced housing would be better, if you could upgrade the apartments from a tiny room into a mansion-sized penthouse with rooftop patio wouldn't you? Suddenly you wouldn't have to worry about finding a bigger plot or the demo timer.

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That might help, but it still wouldn't resolve a lot of the issues we have with the neighborhoods.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Grandfathering is a nice idea in theory but problematic in practice due to how they'd have to flag some accounts. Also the whole point of the exercise is to actually free up those extra houses to add to the new wards' worth of housing being released. It's to get as much housing back into the system as possible without actually fixing what's broken i.e. the too limited supply.

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And I think that's what most of us want... the lowest hanging fruit that's actually going to push us one step closer to a fixed housing system.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I like the timer idea but as someone pointed out to me it only stops the sale of personal housing because flippers will just start selling entire shell FCs, house and all. If a way could be figured out to stop that then yes, timers would be the best way to stop house flipping. Part of me still hopes they do it anyway, anything to cut down on the sellers.

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I suspect that market is a large part of why housing is so screwed up in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Long and short of it is no matter how much it sucks for some folks this idea has all the earmarks of being an attractive solution to SE. Just like demos were. It's going to do the exact same thing, cause a lot of people who did nothing wrong to lose a lot of things they worked hard for and give them compensation they feel is inadequate. But just like demos it's something that probably should have been there from the beginning and it's something SE could have avoided doing entirely if they'd implemented any of the above suggested fixes instead.

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I suspect SE caused this entire mess because they were too firm in their "one human one character per account" line of thinking.

That or there's some cultural differences that SE didn't take into account that reared its ugly head with this entire debacle.

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Perhaps that's because the wards have several people that own multiple plots of land, which is driving down how many players are actually in the ward....

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Yeah, I'm sure that's it. /s

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Long and short of it is no matter how much it sucks for some folks this idea has all the earmarks of being an attractive solution to SE. Just like demos were. It's going to do the exact same thing, cause a lot of people who did nothing wrong to lose a lot of things they worked hard for and give them compensation they feel is inadequate. But just like demos it's something that probably should have been there from the beginning and it's something SE could have avoided doing entirely if they'd implemented any of the above suggested fixes instead.

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Long and short of it is, taking houses from players actively using them is not the same thing as demoing a house the player hasn't entered for 45+ days. If you aren't using the house you don't deserve it, same thing for 90% of the people who snatched up all the new plots in Shirogane and have done absolutely nothing with them since.

I say we reduce the demo timer to 7 days, require players to have a minimum of 50% of the item cap inside the house and outside in the yard, and if these things aren't met, on the players next login, they get to watch a short cutscene of their house being blown to bits while a bunch of random NPCs cheer in the background.

That should free up some houses, without having to strip players who are actually using their homes of their property.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

I say we reduce the demo timer to 7 days, require players to have a minimum of 50% of the item cap inside the house and outside in the yard, and if these things aren't met, on the players next login, they get to watch a short cutscene of their house being blown to bits while a bunch of random NPCs cheer in the background.

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7 days might be a bit much. Sometimes people took 1-2 weeks long trip for vacation. By reducing it to 7 days, you're basically saying that the player's life should revolve around this game. Which is just as bad as the skinner box design for mobile games.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

Long and short of it is, taking houses from players actively using them is not the same thing as demoing a house the player hasn't entered for 45+ days. If you aren't using the house you don't deserve it, same thing for 90% of the people who snatched up all the new plots in Shirogane and have done absolutely nothing with them since.

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Again, I'd rather they solve the issue instead of taking away people's alt houses and I keep suggesting multiple other options that they could (but likely won't) do. Also nobody in this game, regardless of any statistic you choose to apply, deserves a house. We like them, we want them, but if we deserved them they'd be an in-game reward for something.

I don't care if you own one house, two houses, or the full sixteen per server possible, if that's what you love in this game then kudos to you for following that passion. The problem is there's a shortage and just like with any shortage, once it gets too bad you end up with rationing. In this case it could be fixed, it could be avoided, but if the demo timer is any indication it will neither be fixed or avoided. This isn't our fault as players, it's SE's fault for ignoring the issue this long.

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Originally Posted by Niraves

require players to have a minimum of 50% of the item cap inside the house and outside in the yard

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Absolutely not.

I'm a minimalist with design and decoration, and this would screw over my design sensibilities because (IMO) you don't need to have the house anywhere near cap to have it look good. This rule is completely asinine.

Just because you're a packrat, doesn't mean you should make everyone else a packrat or else.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I like the timer idea but as someone pointed out to me it only stops the sale of personal housing because flippers will just start selling entire shell FCs, house and all.

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That may actually be a better way to go. Even if they are forced into selling shell FCs (which is fine by me), that means that every time they make a sale, they have to get a new FC created, and get that FC to rank 6 before they can get the FC able to purchase another house.

So for every sale the flipper makes, that's another FC to get back to R6...

At some point the effort required to get houses to the sale point becomes not worth the effort involved, especially if SE starts putting the screws to smaller FCs.

Hi, i see that often in theese threads people use the term "grandfather/grandfathering", can someone explain me what does it means?

thanks xD