How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

If youve ever played pvp why is it Iv never once heard someone call someone else out for having 0 kills 0 damage on another player, and like 10 damage on ice, and like five deaths.

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Of course PvP now has even simpler two-button DPS rotations, so that doesn't help a lot.

I've also actually reported certain people who do nothing in PvP, because in a sense they were getting carried to victories or contributing a lot to losses. The logs are there, you are there as a healer but you put up 0 healing? DPS but no damage anywhere on the scoreboard? We know for sure the GMs take The Feast even more seriously since its ranked, and data center prizes are on-the-line.

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Originally Posted by Maku

This game feeds you your rotation. The little boxes sparkle when they are comboable.
If someone can't look at a potency and know that 2 is larger than 1 then they have a more major issue than bad math. These forums have several threads about optimal DPS rotations. They can't use parsers officially because that gives an official way to segregate players.

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Blizzard III>fire I > blizzard III> fire I > .. was found in Dv4N, so yeah it is an issue, skill gap too big. This means to some people, the rotation is not "fed" to, I seen other extremely low dps, but this sticks out to talk about. I really wish they had some kind of tutorial for people, like during the 70 quest, that people have to pass before getting the last ability or something, to give them an idea on proper rotations.

It's not needed. The people who want to clear are able to clear. Stay out of pugs and stop trying to simplify everything and or put down the people around you.

My main has been bard since day one. Since its a job based around rng, it boggles my mind that people play bard and don't die inside without a parser.

With so much variance in our dps, it drives me crazy not knowing what my crit rate is, if applying my dots before anything else or getting straight shot up first on my opener makes a huge difference, or if this gear I just got with 40 less crit but only 3 more DEX really made any kind of substantial difference.

Even worse with the huge variance, is not knowing if your group dps is up to snuff. If an engagement requires 18k dps (not real numbers) and your group is only mustering 15k, but you are doing 4k of it, then you know already that this group can't do it. Give them a few tries while they learn the fight, but ultimately, you save yourself an hour wasted.

I'd love for someone to find fault in what I'm saying.

Sometimes some encouragement and rallying will bring out the best out of the team you are trying with. I've had runs that were down to the wire on time remaining and we would squeeze out a win. DPS numbers are not going to tell you it can't/can happen... That's a judgmental decision you are making whether right or wrong, but you won't know for sure without staying and trying till time runs out.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Sometimes some encouragement .

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I dont think Ive ever been on a run where I was the first to leave if so it could of been once, but I have seen the other side of the fence, when I was on pc. Running Act is such an amazing way to play, you can see every bosses health, you can see every trash mobs health, even in dungeons I remember running as a dps tryin to compete the whole way with the other dps to see who would out dps who at the end. This just made the game so much more fun to me personally, I never once ever called someone out for their dps for one I main tanks, and I wouldnt even play a dps in to many instances that are considered challenge.

So to me if you are in a raid or ex primal you especially at this point with all the gear locks your bringing your very best job your comfortable on, then if your on your best job I dont see why you wouldnt wana know what if your doing a good job or not. Like I mention all through this thread I know we aint getting no parser, but an end result tally of everything just like in pvp, I dont see the issue here

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

DPS numbers are not going to tell you it can't/can happen... but you won't know for sure without staying and trying till time runs out.

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No, they tell you what you need to know.
If they are stubborn, they will know that for sure, after the time will run out.
Again, small quote from my previous post:

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For example, if your raid DPS is around 20k on O3S, you will not clear it. Dying or not doesn't have anything to do with it. If a raid DPS is around 20K without anyone dying and people doing mechanics correctly, that group still will not be able to clear O3S due to minimal Raid DPS requirement, which is around 23K (if i remember correctly, maybe +/- 500).

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Either people accept it, will try to improve gear/rotation/start using pots/food/etc or they will just waste their time in Wiping City of Savage.
Willpower/whatever will not help them on that matter.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Tbh, this is applicable even in V1S/V2S. I've done a few PFs trying to help some friends clear after seeing enrage multiple times, and some of the groups I have been in just don't have the overall raid DPS to clear the fight. Even in groups where there haven't been excessive deaths, there just wasn't enough outgoing DPS to clear the fights. This could be due to any number of things (gear, rotations, laziness of party members, etc.).

So this just goes back to what I said in my original response to this individual that meeting enrage is far more than just "not dying and pressing 1-2-3."

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Agreed. It's just that the difficulty of O1S and O2S is not that high, compared to O3S and further.
p.s. This refers to a very old discussion, that parsers should be available in Savage as built-in feature.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

will try to improve gear/rotation/start using pots/food/etc or they will just waste their time in Wiping City of Savage.

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Numbers are not capable of telling you if its possible, you solved it yourself. People are able to improve and their are more options. If after a few tries you see DPS numbers not being enough and decide it won't happen. You have made a decision that you believe is right, that does not mean it is right though.

Why do people instantly draw the line at player ignorance/rotation issues/errors... Some people just don't learn as fast as others but are still capable. You saw DPS numbers for a run and decided its not going to happen. That is your decision, again whether right or wrong. It might not happen during the first run or 5 runs after but it could happen somewhere down the line. The real problem is impatience or your own time constraints due to real life. Some people have the personality of "I hate losing", then there are others like me who enjoy the struggle. I don't look at it as an hour wasted, I look at it as an hour gaming and offering my input to others struggling.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Numbers are not capable of telling you if its possible, you solved it yourself. People are able to improve and their are more options. If after a few tries you see DPS numbers not being enough and decide it won't happen. You have made a decision that you believe is right, that does not mean it is right though.

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We need more people like you ha cause Im not gona lie puggin is ruff youll put pratice party on your party finder, and do one pull it fails someone is leaving right off the bat. I can def tell the difference when a group stays to the wire most of the time you get progress through the whole fight.

Thats what sucks about pugging usually one person leaves it creates a trickle effect , little do people know your next run you end up clearing but they where just to impatient. But again a parse is so you understand whats normal for your job the game doesnt tell you now that its storm blood ur job should be doing 3 k to 4 k damage as a dps a parse will do that. Like even with me as a tank when Im learning and I panic on my pali I will use clemecy more than my nuke hs, with no parse I have no idea how much damage Im actually losing by playing so safe. Its a helpful tool, and I feel would only make gaming alot better cause I personally enjoyed playing with it in the pass.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Going by this and the OP, all I can say is that in this case you're both making it very clear that parsers would turn the game into the MMORPG equivalent of painting by numbers. There's no skill or judgement involved in painting by numbers, just following the numbers. People decry the skill of players already. How will parsers help increase skill when they encourage slavishly following specific rotations and timings - effectively painting by numbers? That reduces the skill needed to that of memorizing a routine and never deviating.

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Generally speaking, there aren't many optimal rotations. If you want to play optimally, it already is a "paint by numbers." Parsing has nothing to do with that.

Parsers are merely a tool that allow you to see your damage output. They don't dictate which rotation you decide to employ. If you are okay with playing sub-optimally and think something like 3.5k is passable, cool. The parser doesn't say "ERROR! THIS ISN'T THE MAX POSSIBLE OPTIMIZATION YOU RAGING SCRUB LORD."

Personally, I really struggle to do Momo's SAM rotation, for instance - but if the parser is telling me I am doing over 4k with my janky rotation, then I say "cool - good enough for now."

That's really all there is to it. Parsers aren't scary. Parsers don't make people a-holes. Some people just are a-holes.