After years of playing Summoner, I'm shelving the job and here's why.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

It's not 4k but think I prove my point here.

What bothers me the most about all of these SMN complain threads is when people make false blanket statements like this guy, and then people start parroting it and all of a sudden the class is the worst in the game.

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Are you kidding me? We're not talking about pathetic 3.3k dps and 30% samurais... This screenshot shows poor player skills and says nothing about what dps SMN can achieve.
(Also I'm pretty sure u can achieve 3.3k+ on susano\lackshimi without firing ruin3 outside DWT once... with new 320-330 gear it should be even easier)
I checked this parse, it's pretty funny. First of all you used painflare 10 times... in susano fight, then you summoned bahamut 4 times and did 27 wyrmwaves which is 7 ww on average, lastly you used dwt 9 times but only used r3+r4 57 times it means you barely fired r3 outside dwt through the whole fight. Also you used ifrit for some reason, does not seem like it really helped your party much. This shows to me that you barely even know how to play 4.0 summoner...

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

First off, this '10 minute parse' fix you're on is a weighted requirement. Summoner will obviously lose here to Black Mage because resources are an issue for the Summoner (Clarity: Because they need to use Ruin 3 liberally. Ruin 1 is a handicap). I might as well ask you to provide a 4.6k 3 minute Black Mage parse but they have to move 30% of the encounter.

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Hm on 3 minutes BLM will probably make around 5k? At least it's achievable, depending on crits and direct hits. Asking BLM to move 30% of the encounter is unreasonable lol. But that's not the point. 4.6k for summoner will be problematic to achieve in any situation imo(without food\potions)(I can show you our 4.5k blm from O1S but fflogs didn't count dps for BLMs properly yet).
I'm asking 10 min parses from you cause you're arguing that encounters prevent summoners from achieving bestest of the best dps. So 10min dummy is encounter where there's no mechanics or anything that can disrupt summoner... So? Show me in what situation summoner has one of the best dps?(I can tell you - lucky 8k burst opener ololol 10s)

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Secondly, my mistake. Not 'Samurai quality' damage, but it is definitely not 'sub-par' (Which is what started this whole back and forth from the person I quoted). Every source I can view using FFlogs shows Summoners not only well within range of a majority of the classes, but even coming ahead in a few cases. They are most certainly -on par- and the outliers are, surprise, Samurai and Red Mage.

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What the hell are you talking about?
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/15#

Now that I have RDM at 70, I can truly say that I made the right call on switching to RDM from SMN. RDM is much more rewarding.

I played smn since ARR and the 2 or 3 lv I spent on SB smn bored me to death.
Feel like I lost half my toolkit and just spamming ruin all day.
Not to mention 60-69 seems more or less the same with no new skill thats not a trait or upgrade.

I love the new summoner changes. They take time to get used to, but it's one of the most challenging classes in the game now. There are many things to do correctly and incorrectly, and I believe that the decisionmaking and forward thinking one has to go through is very engaging and interesting. I think Summoner is weak in terms of numbers, but I do really like the actual mechanics of the class. Not everyone enjoys things that are obtusively challenging for the sake of being so, but I personally do.

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Originally Posted by TsundereImouto

I love the new summoner changes. They take time to get used to, but it's one of the most challenging classes in the game now. There are many things to do correctly and incorrectly, and I believe that the decisionmaking and forward thinking one has to go through is very engaging and interesting. I think Summoner is weak in terms of numbers, but I do really like the actual mechanics of the class. Not everyone enjoys things that are obtusively challenging for the sake of being so, but I personally do.

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that mirrored my personal opinion pretty good. I like the 4.0 smn for pve/open world content and loved it in pvp (even after 4.05) - but raiding is another story... although im lucky to have a fc/static noone said anything against playing smn at all. we were able to clear o1s and o2s in the first 2 days, currently on a 1 week break of o3s progress cause 2 member are off for work until next week. thinking of our progress... I get sad.. being out dpsed by a Brd mate if I have to res or fail Bahmumuts timing cause of mechanics... hard knock life atm but even that will be fixed "someday" - just stay strong ^^

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Originally Posted by Neela

that mirrored my personal opinion pretty good. I like the 4.0 smn for pve/open world content and loved it in pvp (even after 4.05) - but raiding is another story... although im lucky to have a fc/static noone said anything against playing smn at all. we were able to clear o1s and o2s in the first 2 days, currently on a 1 week break of o3s progress cause 2 member are off for work until next week. thinking of our progress... I get sad.. being out dpsed by a Brd mate if I have to res or fail Bahmumuts timing cause of mechanics... hard knock life atm but even that will be fixed "someday" - just stay strong ^^

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I don't expect most people to be able to, but I still find myself at the top of the DPS charts. I just feel bad because I don't bring embolden, mostly.
here's my o1s:
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/63arL...iew=analytical
here's my o2s:
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/6PWHQwNKrT8XB72L#fight=8

oh thats actually pretty good :o

Our comp is Drk, War, Ast, Sch, Sam, Blm, Brd and me (Smn) and without out pots and mid lvl food im just able to get around 3500 if everything goes well... in progress while in panic, death or res support I'm falling down a good 500-700 overall dps – falling behind our Brd on last dps place. I also was wondering myself about our Blm who can outdmg our Sam in mid fight phases - the adjustments on them were really strong indeed... .___.

Smn in 4.0 raiding personally feels more like work than fun – mostlikely cause i panic fast and be chaotic in nature as well but 2nd because the design of the cls itself is unforgiveable if you make minor mistakes... x'D

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Originally Posted by Neela

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Smn in 4.0 raiding personally feels more like work than fun – mostlikely cause i panic fast and be chaotic in nature as well but 2nd because the design of the cls itself is unforgiveable if you make minor mistakes... x'D

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Well, I mean objectively speaking you're working harder than the other classes for less returns (which also highkey tilts the issue, high complexity combo'd with the lower returns)

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/15...nt&dataset=100

Someone from two week ago on discord:

**** - 07/13/2017
You have a degree in StarCraft to play smn right
How do I rdm

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

Well, I mean objectively speaking you're working harder than the other classes for less returns (which also highkey tilts the issue, high complexity combo'd with the lower returns)

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/15...nt&dataset=100

Someone from two week ago on discord:

**** - 07/13/2017
You have a degree in StarCraft to play smn right
How do I rdm

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Why do you believe a higher complexity job deserves to be higher dps? Why do you refer to playing a game as "working" hard?
In my opinion, high complexity jobs should exist for people who enjoy the playstyle; class balance should be agnostic of how "difficult" a job is to master.
I agree that Summoner is undertuned, but the returns shouldn't matter--the core question here is do you enjoy the playstyle or not.

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Originally Posted by TsundereImouto

Why do you believe a higher complexity job deserves to be higher dps? Why do you refer to playing a game as "working" hard?
In my opinion, high complexity jobs should exist for people who enjoy the playstyle; class balance should be agnostic of how "difficult" a job is to master.
I agree that Summoner is undertuned, but the returns shouldn't matter--the core question here is do you enjoy the playstyle or not.

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Risk=Reward has been a gameplay standard across many series including FF, have made it so that people will embrace higher difficulty classes/gameplay if they get a suitable reward for it.

Summoner being undertuned damage on top of it's complexity is kicking the class while it's down.